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Debate Info

19
37
the chicken the egg
Debate Score:56
Arguments:26
Total Votes:74
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Argument Ratio

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 the chicken (11)
 
 the egg (15)

Debate Creator

unknown91(132) pic



What came first, the chicken or the egg?

endless possibilities

the chicken

Side Score: 19
VS.

the egg

Side Score: 37

Short answer:

Solution:

Creationist: God said, "Let there be a hen." Otherwise, who would sit on the egg? Alternatively, God could have said, "Let there be a rooster." and then decided that the rooster needed companionship and so He created the hen and they then begot the egg. NOTE: Since God is perfect, it is unlikely that he said, "Let there be a chicken egg. Oh, and I almost forgot, let there be a hen to sit on that chicken egg. Ooh, wait, and a rooster!"

Evolutionist: Some animal (not a chicken) laid an egg (not a chicken egg). The fetus inside the egg underwent some minor evolutionary change that resulted into a hen. This hen then laid the first chicken egg. Alternatively, the result was a rooster. The rooster then mated with some animal (not a chicken) that laid an egg (not a chicken egg, since the rooster's DNA could not have affected the egg). The result was (eventually) a hen who then laid the first chicken egg.

Chicken and the Egg, Alternate Solution

A chicken and an egg are lying in bed. The chicken is leaning against the headboard smoking a cigarette with a satisfied smile on its face. The egg, looking a bit ticked off, grabs the sheet, rolls over and says ... Well, I guess we finally answered "THAT question!"

Side: The Chicken
0 points

Hilarious! I think you covered all the bases!

Side: The Chicken

I try to think of everything. ;)

Side: The Chicken

Long answer:

Problem:The solution to the age-old question, "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" depends on whether you are a creationist or an evolutionist. The answer, however, is still the same if you assume that the egg in question is a chicken egg. "The chicken came first." If the egg in question is NOT a chicken egg, then the egg came first because there were dinosaur eggs before there were chickens.

The crux of the problem hinges on the definition of a chicken egg. Is a chicken egg an egg that comes from a chicken or an egg that contains a chicken? Many people think of a chicken egg as a chicken eggshell that contains a chicken fetus. In other words, the chicken and the egg problem exist because people typically think of a chicken egg as a single entity (chicken eggshell and chicken fetus together). I will attempt to show that this configuration (chicken eggshell and chicken fetus together) is not necessary in order to create a chicken and that an egg should thus be classified by the species that laid it rather than by what species it contains.

I think that it is safe to say that the chicken fetus is the most obvious part of a chicken egg. The eggshell, however, is trickier because if the eggshell contains any genetic material, then one could argue that the eggshell is part of the fetus and thus the chicken egg could be classified as a single entity. Since the eggshell is made of calcium, we can safely say that the chicken egg consists of two distinct parts (the chicken eggshell and chicken fetus).

A problem still exists, however. Who generates the eggshell? If the fetus generates the eggshell then one could argue that the eggshell is part of the fetus and thus a fertilized chicken egg could be classified as a single entity. But there exists unfertilized eggs. This means that a fetus is not necessary in order to generate the eggshell. Maybe all that is necessary to generate the eggshell is the unfertilized genetic material provided by the hen. Since the complexity of generating an eggshell is beyond the capability of unfertilized genetic material, and since the unfertilized genetic material belongs to (and is generated by) the hen, it is safe to say that the hen generates the eggshell.

This reduces the eggshell to the status of a container. If the eggshell is nothing more than a container, then almost any container with egg like properties should be sufficient to incubate a chicken fetus. If an eggshell/container is capable of carrying almost any fetus of a different species to term, then we cannot classify the eggshell/container by its content. Rather, we should classify the eggshell/container by the species that created the eggshell/container. For example, if scientists were successful in hatching a chicken from a plastic container, would you then call the plastic container and the chicken fetus (together) a chicken egg? Or would you say that the plastic container held a chicken fetus? As another example, if scientists were able to extract the fertilized genetic material from a chicken egg and insert it into a duck egg, would the duck egg be reclassified as a chicken egg? Or would you maintain the "duck egg" classification and state that the duck egg in question contains a chicken fetus? My belief is that (in both examples) most people would choose the later (maintain the "plastic container/duck egg" classification and add the "chicken fetus" qualifier). In other words, an egg should be classified by the species that laid it rather than by what species it contains.

Once we agree on the definition of a chicken egg (an eggshell generated by a hen regardless of content), the solution is trivial; the chicken came first.

Side: The Chicken
0 points

Wow, All that diserves an upvote!

Side: The Chicken

Just a little copy and paste magic. I like to recycle my old crap ;)

thanks

Side: The Chicken

Here is a list of links where you can get the opinions of others who have also pondered this question to death.

http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/What_came_first__the_Chicken_or_the_egg

http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/what_came_first_2

http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/ What_came_first_The_chicken_or_the_egg

Note: This still does not answer the question, "Why did the chicken cross the road?"

Side: The Chicken
0 points

well i think it is obvious that it kinda has to be the chicken because the egg requires heat from the mother to survive and hatch without heat the egg would not survive and would rot inside the shell so it was a rooster and a chicken that came first i learned that in elementary school like 10 years ago. lol

Side: The Chicken
0 points

But who says the egg was laid by a chicken?

Side: The Egg

Don't tell me the chicken was sittin' on the wrong egg!!!!

Side: the egg
DaWolfman(3322) Disputed
0 points

The point is there was an animal on top of the egg but it was not a chicken. The first chicken egg was laid by birds that were not the same as a chicken. How can you even think the chicken when there were dinosaurs hundreds of thousands of years before the chicken?

Side: The Egg

STFU JOE!!! He's just got to do a dissertation on this and ya know why? Cause he wants the books and he's nervous about the books and he's a neurotic person, and he's a lonely rooster without an egg and he's a chicken chit. Bawk, Bawk, Bawk! Twas the Chicken cause God said so!

Side: The Chicken
9 points

This "debate" was settled in 1859. The egg came first. Reptiles hatched out of eggs before there were any birds, and then laid eggs, and so on. Reptiles evolved into birds (over many generations) and chickens are evolved birds. Therefore there were eggs millennia before there were chickens.

(But Meghan's argument that one view "just seems fitting" is not a good way of establishing the truth of anything.)

Side: The Egg
repubgal(336) Disputed
2 points

Tisk. Tisk. Evoulution. A sad misunderstanding. lol

Side: The Chicken
MKIced(2510) Disputed
1 point

Simply downvoting my argument just proves how creationism isn't logical. You have no rebuttal, so you just downvote the opposition. :(

Side: The Egg
MKIced(2510) Disputed
0 points

Okay... this is from a long time ago, but you don't believe in evolution? Look at all of the fossil records and convergent evolution and similar ontongeny between species (study of development)! There is so much evidence! :)

Side: The Egg
5 points

It would have been the egg. There were eggs way before birds and definitely way before chickens. I think that the question is asking in general what came first. Well the first creatures were microscopic creatures. As time went along the creatures evolved ( yes I am going with evolution ) into different creatures finally giving birth to a reptile which laid eggs. Then a millennia later the first chicken came from the offspring of birds. So the egg came first.

Side: The Egg
2 points

I'm going to be bold here, and I'm going to stand by this, the egg. No matter what your belief is as to how the world was created, the idea of the world hatching out of an egg and growing just seems fitting.

Side: The Egg

Now I know why I've always liked ya Meghan. It's cause ya make no sense no how no way....lol! Do ya figure Gawd marked the eggs with letters, like D for dino, C fer Chickie, K fer Kukla? Da world was hatched from da egg...sounds gud to me 2.

Side: The Egg

Before chickens evolved, many other reptilian species and early species of birds laid eggs. Therefore it is clear that the egg came first.

A better question might be, "Which came first, the chicken, or the chicken egg?"

Side: The Egg
JakeJ(3254) Disputed
2 points

what came first?, the early species of birds, or there eggs?

Side: The Chicken
2 points

Where'd the chicken come from if it wasn't an egg?

Reptiles don't give live birth, the egg is a trait of the bird, like reptiles. If the first true chicken came from anywhere, with the ability to lay eggs, it came from another animal with the ability to lay eggs. The egg came first, and the chicken came out of that.

Side: The Egg
2 points

Woah, now! Eggs were around way before chickens. Velociraptors laid them first. Chicken eggs came only shortly before chickens, but that's beside the point.

Side: The Egg
2 points

Well, it’s still unclear whether chicken eggs or chickens came first (the intended question in the original riddle), said Darla Zelenitsky, a paleontologist of the University of Calgary in Alberta who was the first scientist to closely analyze the dinosaur nest.

But interpreted literally, the answer to the riddle is clear. Dinosaurs were forming bird-like nests and laying bird-like eggs long before birds (including chickens) evolved from dinosaurs.

"The egg came before the chicken," Zelenitsky said. "Chickens evolved well after the meat-eating dinosaurs that laid these eggs."

So the original riddle might now be rephrased: Which came first, the dinosaur or the egg? Meanwhile, the new nest provides some of the strongest evidence in North America in favor of the bird-like egg over the chicken.

Supporting Evidence: Which Came First? Eggs Before Chickens, Scientists Now Say (www.livescience.com)
Side: The Egg
2 points

THE EGG because other things laid the egg and slowly it evolved to be the chicken

Side: The Egg
1 point

It has to be the egg!

All living organisms evolve over time. Something (whatever it was) had to finally pop out the egg, introducing a new species to the world. The chi-chi-chicken!

Side: The Egg