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What do you think of me?
Saw that a lot of people are posting these debates. Might as well done mine instead.
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This isnt gonna do much for you being an unbeliever but 2 Corinthians 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. 1
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Free will. Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways, but iniquity was found in him. It was not put there by God. Lucifer created it. ( this is found in Ezekiel 28:15 ) Like man, the angels were created perfect, and with a free will.Satan was lifted up because of his beauty, he corrupted the wisdom by reason of his brightness (This is in Ezekiel 28:17) 1
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Funny, God wins in the end, its not like it messed his plan or anything. See you're asking from the position of using evil as a way to poke a stick at God or more like the ones who believe in him. However if God does exist, he made Satan for the very reason he made you. He made you (if he exists) and wants you to be in heaven with him. However you reject him. You get on this site and theirs people like Srom, OddHannah, me, and many others to try to show you yes God exists. However you do this, not God. Would you rather God not allow you to exist? You're probably "fucking up" somehow. Yet you still exist. It works the same way with Satan. God gave him the best position. Reflecting Gods glory upon himself! Yet Satan (then Lucifer) throws all this away wanting more not knowing how blest he was. Don't blame God for screwing up the universe, he created it the best he could. Satan screwed it up by his own free will. Blame God if you want. But its special pleading for the conditions to be put on Satan and not you. 1
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So he wants to fix a problem he could have prevented himself? Sending billions into damnation? Mauling 42 people with bears? You still didnt answer why God would make a being that would prevent people from going into heaven when he could have just never made him and everybody goes to heaven. 1
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If God is to have creatures with free will, then the risk of rebellion is part of that freedom. Satan had that freedom and used it to rebel. If God had not created Satan and instead another angel fell, then we'd be asking why God made that angel knowing he would fall. God has reasons about which we know nothing. Example : Know my children will act badly at times, but knowing that does not mean mean that I shouldn't have kids. Part of the risk of freedom is that rebellion will be a reality. 1
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You didn't get that point. A third if the angels rebelled. If Lucifer didn't lead the rebellion, another one would. You are made with the same premise Satan was, free will. But as I stated above, he's blinded you to think its all Gods fault and because of he's neither omnibenovlent or omnipotent. When in reality, everyone of those people had ample opportunity to get into heaven. They just thought they were better than him in the same way satan did. 1
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Already had this agruement: No, God did not create sin. God is holy and He would not create that which is contrary to His nature. Sinfulness is the opposite of holiness. It is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). God is the author of the Law which is a reflection of His holy character (Exodus 20). Therefore, God cannot create that which is in direct violation of the Law any more than a person can wish himself to be bigger than the sun. It just isn’t possible. But, if God didn’t create sin, then where did it come from? This is a question that has been debated by theologians and philosophers for many years. I cannot say that I have any better answers than they. Nevertheless, let me venture a guess. God created the conditions where free-will creatures would be able to make a choice between obedience and disobedience to God. This condition existed when God created an angel called Lucifer who was without sin yet, apparently, had free will. Lucifer chose to rebel against God and sin (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezek. 28:13-15). Likewise, Adam and Eve, having been made by God without sin, listened to the devil and chose to sin against God (Gen. 3). But God did not cause them to sin (James 1:13). In the freedom of their wills, each decided to rebel against God and sin entered the world (Rom. 5:12). God simply allowed the condition to exist where sin was possible. An analogy can be found in the relationship between a parent and a child. A parent can create the condition that makes disobedience possible yet the parent remains innocent if the child sins. For example, if a parent tells his child to clean up his room and the child does not, he has rebelled. But, the parent is not responsible for the child’s sin, nor did he cause the child to sin. The child had a choice to obey or not to obey. Likewise, God has created the condition in the world where the ability to rebel against Him was possible. Yet, he is not responsible for that rebellion once it has been committed. Therefore, sin originated with Lucifer who was the first to rebel and entered the world through Adam who likewise chose disobedience. -Carm 1
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Your reasoning is good. Here is the thing. Regardless of what happened now God makes things perfect. He is perfect and thus must create perfect. Perfect implies that they can think for themselves. So you say why did God make Satan? You listen to music right? Thank Satan for leading worship and sharing the knowledge of music. God knew Satan would rebel but he must create perfect. Therefore he gave all the future people ahead of Satan to have the chance to recieve the gift of heaven. Free will is what you have. The ones that choose to disobey God are sent to hell, eternal damnation. God gave the option. It is the choice of the human to do right or wrong. 1
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He didnt. Sin itself is a chain reaction of disobedience. For example. God gives you wood and a stick. You rub the stick against the wood and make a fire and the fire consumes your friend. Did God make the fire or kill your friend? No. God knows of fire. He didnt make it though. You free willed choice involved you making the fire which sprung up as a chain reaction of rubbing to substances like that together. This chain reaction killed your friend. You are more responsible for your friends death than God is. 1
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God made Lucifer to be the leader of worship. He was a higher ranked angel in heaven. God makes perfect beings. In order to have a perfect being the being must be able to think for themselves and if they cannot they are basically robots. God knew Lucifer would rebel so he did everything that would allow humans to go into heaven for eternal peace. Satan however wants the throne of God and will try to decieve you and pull you down into hell with him and his fallen angels. God is restoring paradise. 1
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He created Lucifer for a purpose and the purpose God used for him was He was in charge of worship in Heaven that is why He created him. Hell was originally for Satan and his followers but until men sinned and choose to rebel God those people who rebelled sent themselves down to hell because they choose not to believe in God. 1
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You are not understanding what I am telling you. God doesn't send billions of people into hell. Those people who are currently in hell they sent themselves to hell because they chose to not follow God and they sinned all of their life and never turned to God. Its not God's fault. Its their fault for not believing in Him. God is all loving and powerful but you see it a totally different way then I see it. You mostly cherry picking stuff what you don't like and start asking questions that you want to get answered. 2
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God doesn't send billions of people into hell. God created the domain of hell. He directly sends you there during the end days. He also released evil into the world meaning he deliberately sent you. Those people who are currently in hell they sent themselves to hell because they chose to follow God and they sinned all of their life and never turned to God. Its not God's fault. Its their fault for not believing in Him. Thats foolish. You were born in sin which is unfair. He created satan even thoigh he knew what would happen meaning he purposefully did this. He sent billions to hell. He created all the ideas people go through. He created slavery. He made the idea of rape. He didnt have to but he did. God is all loving and powerful but you see it a totally different way then I see it. You mostly cherry picking stuff what you don't like and start asking questions that you want to get answered. Cherry picking? Thats stupid and you know that. If God can do anything can he make a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it? Can God make a being stronger than him? God created the domain of hell. He directly sends you there during the end days. He also released evil into the world meaning he deliberately sent you. Hell was originally for Satan and his angels and it wasn't for us but since men have sinned that is why we have all of this evil and suffering in this world is because of what we did and people choose to reject God and go their own ways. If you don't want to believe in God when you're on this earth then that must mean to God you don't want to be with Him in eternity. Thats foolish. You were born in sin which is unfair. He created satan even thoigh he knew what would happen meaning he purposefully did this. He sent billions to hell. He created all the ideas people go through. He created slavery. He made the idea of rape. He didnt have to but he did. No it isn't foolish because we have sinned and there is a way to get out of sin by believing in God. Once again God doesn't sent billions of people to hell its out of free will that people go to hell because they decided they don't want to believe in God. God didn't make rape, slavery, pollution or other horrible things. We did it. Humans did it. Is God responsible for the pollution down in L.A? No because that is what those people did because they have been driving a lot and also the factories that cause the pollution in that city. So God didn't create pollution in was ourselves that created it. Its the same thing with slavery, and rape. Cherry picking? Thats stupid and you know that. If God can do anything can he make a rock that is so heavy that he cannot lift it? Can God make a being stronger than him? Yes you are cherry picking because you are asking me all of these questions. God is an eternal being and so if He created the rock it would keep growing and growing and it wouldn't get heavy. God can't make a being stronger than Him because He is the strongest being. 1
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Hell was originally for Satan and his angels and it wasn't for us but since men have sinned that is why we have all of this evil and suffering in this world is because of what we did and people choose to reject God and go their own ways. If you don't want to believe in God when you're on this earth then that must mean to God you don't want to be with Him in eternity Your bible says God is Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. If he created hell he knew humans would go there and thus made it for us unless he isn't all-knowing. No it isn't foolish because we have sinned and there is a way to get out of sin by believing in God. Once again God doesn't sent billions of people to hell its out of free will that people go to hell because they decided they don't want to believe in God. God didn't make rape, slavery, pollution or other horrible things. We did it. Humans did it. Again. God made every single individual idea. Why even make the possibility of these bad things. Also God is an unfair God. We have to suffer death and pestilence yet he can pick favorites to never expierience death? Why the fuck did Enoch get to escape death but pretty much everybody else has to die? That is favoritism. Is God responsible for the pollution down in L.A? Yes. He knew about it before he created anything and still created Lucifer meaning he deliberately set up the chain reaction of events leading up to pollution in L.A. So God didn't create pollution in was ourselves that created it. Its the same thing with slavery, and rape God knew how carbon would be used. He did all of it on purpose. He knew every little girl would be raped. He didn't do a thing to stop it. He could of at least changed the little girls mind and made her do something else. That would be an all-loving God. Instead your God likes little girls being penetrated. A typical "born in sin" human would stop a rape if that human ever saw. Yes you are cherry picking because you are asking me all of these questions. God is an eternal being and so if He created the rock it would keep growing and growing and it wouldn't get heavy. God can't make a being stronger than Him because He is the strongest being. If God cannot make a rock so heavy that he could not lift it he isn't omnipotent. If God can't make a being stronger than him he isn't omnipotent. You are limiting your God. It would make more logical sense for him to have limitations. If your God is eternal dont you think he could forgive finite crimes? Nope. Thats not what your God does. You God pretty much screws up your chances as soon as you are born. 1
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You're fine with what? Well that's not true because my belief has been proven that it is true by non religous sources and religous sources as well. It was evident that Jesus was a real person and the He was a man in God form to tell us how to escape from sin and how to get to heaven and not hell. Why would I go to hell for something I believed to be truth? Jesus claimed to be the Truth. Well that's not true because my belief has been proven that it is true by non religous sources and religous sources as well. It was evident that Jesus was a real person and the He was a man in God form to tell us how to escape from sin and how to get to heaven and not hell. This statement is false. First, I said I believe something, therefore, no matter whether or not your idea has been proven, my belief remains the same. Second, no, it has not been proven, sorry. Why would I go to hell for something I believed to be truth? Jesus claimed to be the Truth. I believe God is not real, and that makes me go to hell. It is the same exact thing. Let's assume you are wrong. If the real God thinks the way you say your God thinks, then it will be off to hell with you because you are following the wrong one. This statement is false. First, I said I believe something, therefore, no matter whether or not your idea has been proven, my belief remains the same. Second, no, it has not been proven, sorry. Yes it has been proven because there are people, places, and things that came from the Bible that prove Jesus was a real person and if it wasn't proven why is it still a belief if it false? It's very evident if you examined the evidence but its going to be hard with the way because of your belief in no God. I believe God is not real, and that makes me go to hell. It is the same exact thing. Let's assume you are wrong. If the real God thinks the way you say your God thinks, then it will be off to hell with you because you are following the wrong one. I have heard this many times but I am not wrong because many people who came out of their last religion and converted to Christianity actually felt the Spirit of God in them and they saw God. Plus I have examined other religous beliefs that think their's is true but its not because of the evidence that I have examined. 2
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Yes it has been proven because there are people, places, and things that came from the Bible that prove Jesus was a real person and if it wasn't proven why is it still a belief if it false? It's very evident if you examined the evidence but its going to be hard with the way because of your belief in no God. You make the claim that Jesus existed. We can believe that as a man Jesus indeed did exist. However what evidence is there to support his miracles? Is there proof of that? The bible simply will not convince enough people. I have heard this many times but I am not wrong because many people who came out of their last religion and converted to Christianity actually felt the Spirit of God in them and they saw God. Plus I have examined other religous beliefs that think their's is true but its not because of the evidence that I have examined. The evidence you have examined? Like what? How do you disprove the Hindu gods? Christianity isn't even the first religion. The logic of your bible doesn't line up properly. Your bible claims that the world is 6000 years old. Including stars, planets, and anything else. With our studies we have learned that the formation of a planet takes much longer than 6000 years. What proof do you have to dispute the 6000 year logical failure without using the bible? Yes it has been proven because there are people, places, and things that came from the Bible that prove Jesus was a real person and if it wasn't proven why is it still a belief if it false? It's very evident if you examined the evidence but its going to be hard with the way because of your belief in no God. Wrong, the Bible has historical places in it so it is real? Does that make Sherlock Holmes real because he lived in the real London? I have heard this many times but I am not wrong because many people who came out of their last religion and converted to Christianity actually felt the Spirit of God in them and they saw God. Plus I have examined other religous beliefs that think their's is true but its not because of the evidence that I have examined. At least I am 100% correct on the blind faith thing. Let's break it down a little further, but keep in mind that you asked me if it would be possible to send you to hell for believing something is true. I have heard this many times but I am not wrong because many people who came out of their last religion and converted to Christianity actually felt the Spirit of God in them and they saw God. I said, let's assume you are wrong. You first step, assume you are right. Congratulations on your fail. Plus I have examined other religous beliefs that think their's is true but its not because of the evidence that I have examined. Then I said if you believed in the wrong God the correct God would punish you. To which you seem to be responding, hey all of these people believe in the wrong truth and will not be going to heaven. I am of course filling in the heaven part, but it comes directly from your words where you say people have to believe in Jesus, so I haven't done anything bad here. I have heard this many times but I am not wrong because many people who came out of their last religion and converted to Christianity actually felt the Spirit of God in them and they saw God. Plus I have examined other religous beliefs that think their's is true but its not because of the evidence that I have examined. Funny. If you tell a doctor you feel the spirit of something inside you and actually see it before you, then they'd lock you up. But seeing 'God' is absolutely sane. What a society we live in. You and I don't see eye to eye on the religious subjects, and obviously debate each other a lot. But I can tell that you're a good person, despite that our debates probably look like we'd hate each other to the outsider. I genuinely like your presence at this forum. You're strong in your beliefs, strive to be a good person and want to spread good. 1
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I have not seen you around often, probably because I rarely get on, but I do see that your religious arguments can be strengthened a little. This is just so you an debate with a non-believer of your faith effectively. Us Athiests sometimes enjoy seeing Christians who acknowledge the facts we present. Claims saying that "the bible said so" will not cut it. That would be my only message to you. 1
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