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Debate Info

73
116
Choice Genetic
Debate Score:189
Arguments:114
Total Votes:210
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 Choice (46)
 
 Genetic (68)

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PrayerFails(11163) pic



What is homosexuality? Choice or Genetic

Choice

Side Score: 73
VS.

Genetic

Side Score: 116
6 points

Homosexuality vs. Heterosexuality.

Well, as a bi I don't really think that anyone only prefers one gender to the other. Culturally, we grow up to accept that there are gays and there are straights. Most just want to be straight, so the idea of experimenting with sexuality is put down (mainly by men).

Thanks to drug use, I've messed around. Ever had sex with a man? No... but I see the appeal and would like to try it out (my sex life isn't very active at the moment :l )

So in a sense, we choose based on our upbringing and culture. No one can just switch between being physically attracted to either a male or a female, but to say that it's genetic is kind of also backwards... there isn't a gene that makes you want a woman or female (founded, at least). There, however, genetic traits that can make you more sexually ambiguous or such.

However, if you're mostly gay you can't just stop like how Conservatives try to make it. Most gays don't like to have sex with women, just how most straights don't like to have sex with men. At the same time, I don't believe that humans are that concrete (sexually).

Side: Choice

"Well, as a bi I don't really think that anyone only prefers one gender to the other."

You are bi-sexual?

". Most just want to be straight, so the idea of experimenting with sexuality is put down (mainly by men). "

ya but sex with another man can seem digusting to someone (i.e. me) who is in no way attracted to ther men, you can call this cultural programming or some cultivated psychopathalogical condition, and you might well be right but it doesn't change the fact that i am simply not turned on by men.

"Thanks to drug use, I've messed around."

Ya ive taken plenty of drugs as well but it never made me the least bit attracted to a man.

"No... but I see the appeal and would like to try it out "

Position?

"So in a sense, we choose based on our upbringing and culture"

It's not nearly that simple.

"No one can just switch between being physically attracted to either a male or a female, but to say that it's genetic is kind of also backwards"

Admittedly it isn't soley genetic but like everything else it involve's both genetic-physiological roots, most people are simply genetically predisposed to being gay, but like anything else it's only true in varying degrees.

It's best to view human sexuality as a bell curve, all orientations have been explored by the population somewhere at some point, and all of these were influenced heavily by genetic programming

"there isn't a gene that makes you want a woman or female (founded, at least)."

Being gay reduces the chances of reproducing on the whole, and thus is not selected, that is not to say that being gay hasn't found it's own niche in humkan evolution i.e. "The so-called "gay uncle" hypothesis posits that people who themselves do not have children may nonetheless increase the prevalence of their family's genes in future generations by providing resources (food, supervision, defense, shelter, etc.) to the offspring of their closest relatives. This hypothesis is an extension of the theory of kin selection. Kin selection was originally developed to explain apparent altruistic acts which seemed to be maladaptive. The initial concept was suggested by J.B.S. Haldane in 1932 and later elaborated by many others including John Maynard Smith, W. D. Hamilton and Mary Jane West-Eberhard.[43] This concept was also used to explain the patterns of certain social insects where most of the members are non-reproductive."

"At the same time, I don't believe that humans are that concrete (sexually)."

Well speaking from my own personal experience it would take a hell of lot for me to even consider being affectionate with a man, let alone be sexual, call it psychological conditioning if you wish i simply can't imagine finding another man attractive, however the mere scent of women from a distance can make me stop everything i am doing and immediately pursue her.

Supporting Evidence: here (en.wikipedia.org)
Side: genetic
2 points

I can't really convince someone that we are all bi in some way when they just don't feel it.

Hell, 2 years ago I would have been "that's impossible."

Really, what led me to eventually realize how I can spread my sexuality was first realizing how flexible our minds are. It took years of philosophy and psychology for me to realize my bisexuality, and I would say that drugs (psychedelics, xtc, marijuana) really helped me in seeing the construct of the mind.

Now, I could speak from a bias. My major interest in the "soul" (aka, consciousness/personality) puts me in the position to experiment and not feel "disgust" in the same way that most others would.

For most, experimentation is not a concern, so they will never want to (nor have to) delve deeply into their construct to see just what they're capable of (sexually or w/e).

So I will say... bisexuality can be constructed, but it first requires deconstruction (open-mindedness is one thing, but deconstruction is the next step).

Side: Choice
5 points

I really wish you people would start making proposition-opposition/affirmative-negative debates instead of these either/or dichotomies, as if every issue were Coke vs. Pepsi. I'll have to go with "choice," because it is; but only insofar as every other aspect of one's life is a choice. 'Tis in ourselves that we are thus or thus: people wield an enormous amount of personal volition without realizing it.

But while choice almost definitely plays a role, as far as we can tell right now, there is no single factor that determines sexual orientation. There's most likely a polygenetic component, and there's probably also a prenatal/hormonal component and a component of both conscious and unconscious will. Each of these influences might serve to simply nudge a person's sexuality in one direction or the other: towards homosexuality or bisexuality or heterosexuality. But it's an ongoing field of research, and nobody's attained any substantial degree of certainty over what causes deviant lifestyles apart from the influences of the prince of darkness, Satan.

Supporting Evidence: QueerByChoice.com, a whole coalition of queer-choosers (www.queerbychoice.com)
Side: Both

Homosexuality and choice are closely related. Sexuality is a fundamental choice in human action in relation to sexual orientation. Whether heterosexual or homosexual, consenting adults choose partners based on preferences just as if a male may prefer a blonde woman over a brunette woman, the same goes for homosexuality when a male prefers a male over a woman.

Side: Choice
casper3912(1581) Disputed
3 points

Your conflating sexual acts with orientation.

While it is possible for a person of any orientation to be sexual with any sex, the orientation itself is not a choice. This is because orientation is the same as hunger, the desire for air, social contact, or any other human need.

Side: genetic
1 point

Your conflating sexual acts with orientation.

Whatever, sexual orientation describes sexual attraction which involves sexual acts. So, millions of teenage men have an sexual attraction to teenage women, but don't have the desire to engage in sexual acts. The key term is sexual.

While it is possible for a person of any orientation to be sexual with any sex, the orientation itself is not a choice.

Of course, it is a choice, every single day millions of men and woman choice not to have emotional, romantic or sexual attraction to the the same sex.

Side: Choice
Niko(127) Disputed
2 points

So... You're basically saying that heterosexuality is a choice?

Side: genetic
3 points

Yes, basically, that is what I am saying.----------------------------

Side: Choice
johnnyQ(24) Disputed
2 points

PrayerFails, based on what you've posted so far, I'm beginning to doubt that you are actually human, as you seem to have virtually no understanding of human emotionality. On the basis that you are not human, I hereby denounce your opinion as invalid and faulty.

Side: Seriously
1 point

johnnyQ, based on what you've posted so far, I'm beginning to doubt that you are actually an monkey, as you seem to have virtually no understanding of logic and rational thinking. On this basis, you are a monkey, I hereby denounce your opinion as invalid and faulty.

You can continue to base everything you know on emotion while I will go on logic and reason.

Side: Choice
egga(108) Disputed
1 point

The confusion here is between choice and preference. The 2 words have different meanings. You can make a choice based on preference but you cannot choose what you prefer. If I preferred brunettes, I can't turn around and say I choose to like blondes better.

Side: genetic
2 points

Im not gay but one of my cousins are he said he had a choice he said the people who say its not a choice just dont want to admit that they are not as normal as everyone. I used to think it was a genetic thing but now i see its a choice for everyone to decide it all depends on what you like

Side: Choice
casper3912(1581) Disputed
3 points

You apparently do not realize that your cousin is trying to make his sexuality appear normal, so that he can be better included in "normal" society. ie, he is lying.

Sexuality is what you like, who you have sex with is a choice.

For example, If I like apples, but not grapefruit I didn't choose to like or not like them but I may choose if I eat them.

Side: genetic
2 points

Let us say for the sake of arguement, that it IS a choice...

What then?

Side: Choice
2 points

Scientists have identified what they call the "Gay Gene" however not all men that have this gene are gay and not all gays have this gene, clearly a choice.

Side: Choice
egga(108) Disputed
1 point

I have not heard of any evidence of a 'Gay Gene'. Please let me know where you got this information from? Your step to say it a choice from that "evidence" is dubious too.

Side: genetic
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
0 points

You moron look it up yourself, i read it in a book on sociology.

Side: Choice
1 point

Homosexuals choose their own gender over the opposite gender. Of course it's a choice.

Side: Choice
chatturgha(1630) Disputed
2 points

Why would they choose their own gender over the opposite if doing so presents them with the problem that they will be second class citizens under most modern governments and have the chance of being beaten, discriminated again, or murdered just because of their 'choice'.

Nobody is stupid enough to make a choice like that.

Unless you have reasonable proof that they make a choice, you're being ridiculous. The only difference between being a racial minority in a country and being gay is that you can't see when someone's gay, but you can't prevent them from being a homosexual just like you can't prevent a Black man from having brown skin.

Side: genetic
Troy8(2431) Disputed
2 points

Why would they choose their own gender over the opposite if doing so presents them with the problem that they will be second class citizens under most modern governments and have the chance of being beaten, discriminated again, or murdered just because of their 'choice'.

Why would someone choose to convert to Christianity in Iran when they have the chance of being beaten, discriminated against, or murdered? Because Obviously they think the reward ways out the risk. It's just like any other choice.

The only difference between being a racial minority in a country and being gay is that you can't see when someone's gay, but you can't prevent them from being a homosexual just like you can't prevent a Black man from having brown skin.

You can force someone into having gender-changing surgery. Assuming they remain attracted to the same gender after the surgery as before, they are no longer homosexual.

Side: Choice
Niko(127) Disputed
2 points

Explain to me how you know for a fact that homosexuals are just making choices without basing your proof on what people have told you. Unless you are gay and are choosing to, you can't prove it.

Side: genetic
1 point

Wow it's obviously a choice you idiots. I can choose right now if I like boys or girls... It's a personal preference. It's what you're attracted too, you're all making it sound like some genetic disease... It's just what you like.

Side: Choice
zombee(1026) Disputed
3 points

Let's pretend you're right and sexuality is a switch people can flip at will. Why are there scared straight camps? Why do so many right-wing politicians have to poorly hide their orientation? Why do people kill themselves from the shame of being gay? Why has anyone, ever, been attracted to someone they'd rather not be attracted to? Do they just lack your superhuman ability to control what arouses you?

Could you wake up tomorrow and decide to be aroused by old people? Ugly people? Animals?

Side: Genetic
8 points

Scientific research has shown that an imbalance of attraction hormones causes sexuality. For heterosexuals, their hormones weigh more on their sex's (males: majority is male hormones / females: majority is female hormones). There are instances, however, where the balance can go the other way. If a male has more female hormones, or a female has more male hormones, sexual attraction towards the same sex is common. For bisexuals, it could just mean that there is a close-to-even balance between the two hormones, and asexuals would have a lack of the certain hormones.

If you say that you choose to be homosexual, you imply that you choose to not be homosexual, and that you choose to be heterosexual.

See my other "Dispute" on why choice is a completely ridiculous idea.

Side: genetic
4 points

._.

Preference isn't a choice. I don't like Brussle sprouts... I can't suddenly choose to like Brussle sprouts.

What prayerfails is talking about isn't choosing heterosexuality or choosing homosexuality, he's talking about choosing to pretent to prefer one or the other.

It's a dumb fucking idea and fodder for the religiously insane.

Being gay isn't a choice.

Side: genetic
0 points

Preference isn't a choice.

The definition of preference is choice.

First, dictionary.com defines preference as choice. Preference

Second, Merriam-Webster relates sexual preference to orientation. Preference

Side: Choice
casper3912(1581) Disputed
2 points

Actually, dictionary.com just listed it as a synonym to choice.

Preference and choice are related, but the are not the same.

For example, I may give different answers to the following questions

"what fruit do you want?"

vrs

"what fruit do you prefer?"

One is asking about your desire, the first is asking about an idealization.

Side: genetic
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
2 points

I'm not disputing that one cannot choose to not partake in homosexual acts or heterosexual acts... or any act for that matter.

But, as even your own inclusion of "or genetic" in the debate title implies,

The actual attraction is the key factor (since what one does is obviously not genetic, only the process of the brain leading to action).

Otherwise what your saying is, as my post states, is that I could make myself like Brussle sprouts. Or you are saying that because I eat Brussle sprouts sometimes I must like them.

Neither of those are true obviously. I do eat them sometimes, I still hate them, I cannot make myself like them try as I might.

... I actually have no idea why I'm trying to explain this further anyway.

Do you really not see the flaw in your assertion that preference and choice are the same thing? Is it impossible to choose something you do not prefer, or to prefer something you do not choose in your mind? If so I am worried.

Side: genetic
Niko(127) Disputed
1 point

In this instance, he is saying that a person's preference, which is biological, is not a choice.

Side: genetic
johnnyQ(24) Disputed
1 point

Dictionary.com actually defines 'preference' as "the act of preferring."

Dictionary.com gives "choose rather than" as a definition for 'prefer'.

If anything, I would say that this is far from equating choice and preference. It may be true that the semantic fields of both words overlap, but all you're doing is ignoring reality and bringing yourself into a rhetorical argument. The fact that the English language uses similar words for distinct phenomena does not mean the actual concepts conveyed by the words are one and the same. In Chinese I can use the same word to describe an object as black, blue, or green. This linguistic convention does not abolish the reality that three different objects colored black, blue, and green are three different colors. If you believe what you're arguing, you'd better find some valid evidence quick, because what you're saying would not stand up to any logical analysis.

And also, you can't just pick and choose different dictionaries to build a logical chain of semantic relations.

Side: Seriously
3 points

Someone who is serious and just not looking for attention doesn't have a choice in my opinion. They're simply attracted to the same sex and can NOT help it. One of my gay friends is literally scared of vagina, if he had a choice he probably wouldn't be so turned off by them, but he just prefers the guys over girls. If it was a choice then those children who are terrified of having to deal with their family and friends wouldn't choose to be put through that discrimination.

Side: genetic
2 points

he just prefers the guys over girls

Prefers is a good indication of choice.

If it was a choice then those children who are terrified of having to deal with their family and friends wouldn't choose to be put through that discrimination.

Which is why it is a choice. Those family members also believe it is choice. They just feel the choice was bad.

Side: Choice
Coldfire(1014) Disputed
1 point

Prefers is a good indication of choice.

Not of choice in itself, but more accurately what causes a particular choice or outcome.

I prefer chocolate ice-cream over vanilla, so I make the choice to pick chocolate. The preference is not chosen in this case, as with sexual orientation.

Side: genetic
3 points

Who chooses to be a second class citizen? Seriously?

Nobody.

Side: genetic
1 point

This second class citizenry that you speak of is only a failure of Democracy. 51% of the majority thinks so.

Side: Choice
chatturgha(1630) Disputed
2 points

That's not the point. It's not the cause of them being second class citizens that's the problem. Your argument has nothing to do with what I said.

Why would they choose to be gay in a society that might beat, discriminate or murder them? Nobody chooses that. Unless you want to imply that all gay people are idiots, I don't particularly see how you could possibly dispute this.

It's like assuming that an old black man chose to be black during the 30's when he clearly did not. The only difference is that you can't see homosexuality with your eyes and apparently that gives you leeway in your mind to assume that it's 100% of a choice when it almost never is.

If it was a choice, why have so many teenagers committed suicide when they could have just chosen to be heterosexual, you cad?

Side: genetic
Assface(406) Disputed
1 point

A good part of teen/young adult subculturites. Victim-complex-sufferers. Self-diagnosed autists.

Side: Choice
chatturgha(1630) Disputed
1 point

A good part of teen/young adult subculturites.

Subculturites isn't a word.

Older teenagers and adults recognize consequences of their decisions, and even if they did choose, why don't they become heterosexuals again? Being a homosexual doesn't bring any more benefits that being a heterosexual does, except homosexuals are discriminated against.

Victim-complex-sufferers.

Yup, because most homosexuals want attention and for everyone to take pity on them even though they aren't really being mistreated...

You know, I bet there were at least a few white racists 50 years ago that would have said Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a victim-complex sufferer. Sound familiar?

Self-diagnosed autists.

This makes little to no sense.

A person with autism can't even function in real life, meaning it's impossible for them to self diagnose anything about them.

Meaning that everyone who self diagnoses themselves with autism has some sort of personality disorder or is a complete idiot.

Is that your argument? They're all just crazy or stupid? That's some serious argument there, chum.

Side: genetic

I really don't think you can say definitively whether its one or the other, like any nature vs. nurture debate i would err on the side of nature.

You can't make a person who was born with an average IQ a genius with nurture, and you can't make someone you is powerfully predisposed to being gay a hetero, it simply cannot be done, and saying it is more of choice simply add's credence to the view that it can be, and all the other right wing bullshit so many force on kids who show homosexual tendencies, you cannot pray the gay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of good friends was gay, he grew up in a rural village, his family were deeply religious and would have never chosen to be gay if he could have, he simply found himself attracted to men instead of women.

If homosexuality is anything it is genetic.

Side: genetic
Uspwns101(444) Disputed
1 point

Homosexual men can and have become heterosexuls. You can pray the gay away it happens quite often.

Side: Choice
garry77777(1794) Disputed
2 points

If being gay is a choice why would anyone kill themselves over it?

Why did they pick death over becoming straight?

Side: genetic
1 point

i chose this as the most logical answer because it is a bit of both, you don't decide when your young because you don't know thats genetic but later on in life you decide whether you like the idea or not.

Side: Both

I'm on this side, because it's closer to the truth, but Homosexuality has not been identified as a genetic trait, that is there has been no gene(s) identified that causes these particular set of behaviours.

If homosexuality were genetic, it would stand to reason that it would be bred out, a gene that inhibits sexual attraction between males and females would not be passed on, simply because it takes both of these genders to make a baby. Also, it's mostly straight parents that have Gay children so figure that one out.

It is though not a choice, not entirely anyway, a Woman's non-compartmentalised brain works entirely at the same time on both sides, and sexual attraction to other Women is more common than it it is with straight men and other men.

During foetal development, hormones are needed to develop male and female characteristics at varying stages and in vastly varying quantities. Oestrogen is placed into a foetus by it's Mother in spades, the differences being that a male when sexual differentiation is occurring starts to release steroids and Leydig cells release a lot of testosterone, this in turn leads to the formation of male traits, including the development of the male brain.

If this does not happen at the right time and in the right quantity males can develop sexually, but mentally as females to varying degrees, this would be observable if there were people that were homosexual to many different degrees and there is.

From Bi-sexual straight through to transgender.

From my experience most people that are homosexuals say it was not a choice, the biggest proportion of these being male.

Side: genetic
1 point

If you hate blood or do not prefer tea over coffee is not just choice but your body functioning. If you cannot tolerate cold and like heat better, it is your body functioning. If you cannot make your mind up to be with a man and your a girl is your body functioning. If your a man and cannot force yourself in a woman is your body functioning. You cannot force yourself into something you do not like. And you do't have to... You do not need to worry what the entire World will think of it. Cuz at the end of the day what happens to you is your problem not the World's!

Besides sometimes people alsosuffer with genetic disabilities perhaps abnormalities. Like the klinefelters syndrome or turner syndromes. Things that can't be exchanged with the entire World.

Side: genetic
1 point

This debate could be broken by another 'does free will exist' well if choice does not exist then genetics is the last answer but from my perception of life and my surroundings free will does exist and therefore so does choice homosexuality has been scientifically proven to be genetic in some cases but that does not eliminate choice by free will, there will be those who chose to be homosexual and those who are genetically homosexual prompting the question what is truly a homosexual?

Side: genetic
johnnyQ(24) Disputed
1 point

This doesn't make sense. Maybe it is free will that allows homosexuals to act on their feelings, but the actual feelings that are a part of their being as a person are not a choice. Go give a dude oral and tell me whether you chose to be aroused or not.

Side: Seriously
1 point

Take the 'homo-' out of 'homosexuality'. A more pertinent question would be: What is sexuality? Choice or genetic? Homosexuality is one type of sexuality. Do you choose to look at whomever you're sexually attracted to and be turned on? Not to say sexual orientation is entirely genetic; perhaps environmental factors and psychological processes play a role in one's ultimate orientation. But this is a ridiculous question that should not even be disputed in today's society. Now, is it a choice to come out of the closet? Yes... a choice based on genuine feelings people have.

America the Delusional
Side: Seriously
1 point

It certainly not a choice but probably not genetic either. Homosexuality is a preference, we have no say in what we prefer and no amount of convincing will change that.

Side: Neither

A person is born Gay in the same manner that a Straight person is born Straight.

Side: Genetic
1 point

I think it can be either. Most of my family/friends that are homosexual would say they were born that way, but not all. I think people can use their personal experiences in life and come to a homosexual preference over time. I respect both sides and think it really doesn't matter - we should show everyone respect regardless of their sexual orientation.

Side: Genetic
0 points

I have two key arguments supporting the 'genetic' side:

1) LOGICAL SCIENTIFIC APPROACH: Homosexuality is observed in animals who are intellectually incapable of distinguishing between homosexuality and heterosexuality. Thus, if an action is done without free will and conscious thought, it is involuntary. Involuntary actions (heartbeats for example) cannot be controlled and are, therefore natural (genetic).

2) RATIONAL SOCIETAL APPROACH: Homosexuals a. have fewer rights and privileges than their straight counterparts, b. are constantly demonized by many in society, c. are frowned upon by many religions (Christianity, Islam, etc.). Why then, if we have established that gays are societally predisposed to a qualitatively worse life, would they CHOOSE to have fewer rights, disrespect from society, and intolerant religious beliefs towards them? Who would want that for themselves?

Side: genetic