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What is the point of religion?
When people of faith join a religion, such as Christianity, why do they become lofty, arrogant and condescending in their nature when they are meant to become simple, kind, honest and caring? What can be done to prevent this from happening?
I believe that organised religion is faulted right from the start. Apart from the fact that those involved are supporting nothing more than fairy tales at best, they create a community based on rank and position within that community. The practitioners in these orders are promoted and their status becomes more and more important to them. They all spend far too much time trying to outdo each other to gain favour with the leaders. It quickly and not surprisingly becomes a full-blown cult.
If you are going to take part in one of these ridiculous faith-based religions why not try to find one where the significance of rank does not matter. There must be a few still around like that somewhere.
I strongly disagree. I don't think that trying to find a point for religion is necessary. We live in a free world and need to respect that religion is a choice and people choose to believe in ancient teachings. I would not class these teachings as "fairy tales" because they are mostly morals taught to people through examples which are formed into stories to help us understand what they mean by these teachings. It would be hard for us to understand things unless examples are given. The tales in holy books such as the bible aren't necessarily meant to be taken seriously and possibly aren't meant to be perceived as fact based and completely true. Again, they are examples of how to lead a fulfilling and happy life by respecting others. Religious communities, in extreme cases, can be quite competitive and controlling but, for the most part they are not. People often see people who teach religion as higher in power when, in fact, they are not, they are merely people who lead and teach. Where would we be without some sort of leadership? what would our world be like if we had no one to show us correct ways and how to do things?
Also, faith is an interesting topic. It means to have complete trust in someone or something. religious people do have faith in their religion and where would we really be if we didn't have faith? If we didn't have faith in our governments (who, may I just add, also lead and there is often disputes about power, so before questioning the rank of other communities, take a look at your ever day life) where would we be?
you should never class someones life and belief as "ridiculous" before clearly looking into it and having an almost perfect understanding of it, which you clearly don't have, otherwise there wouldn't be as many flaws in your argument.
The point of religion, at its base, is to explain things man doesn't understand, and frighten us. If you aren't frightened, you don't need the answer, and religion becomes superfluous. For some - some priests - the point of religion is power, and/or money. This becomes true in politics for those with less power - religion becomes a very big lever, used through government, against those that oppose them.
You've never studied religions of the world, have you? That's exactly what they do, starting with the simplest of religions, like animism. Religion has always given reasons for questions like: "Why am I here?", "What is the purpose?", "How did it begin?", and even "Why is the world so hostile to me?"
This is exactly why things like sacrifice - to appease the...spirits...forces of nature...greater beings...etc...came to exist.
Good religion doesn't simply give you the answers to questions. Good religion tells you how you can see for yourself.
The problem is, you are disconnected from that. It would be like knowing a bunch of scientific facts without knowing the scientific method. Your conception of religion is like that. Knowing what you think are a bunch of facts without knowing the method. Possibly even the vocabulary.
Now you see all these outward manifestations, but you don't understand why these things came to be in the first place. Because you do not understand the spirit behind it, you are incapable of seeing how these patterns repeat themselves in different forms today. All you see is the superstition, but you don't see why the people have that superstition.
What it really boils down to is that you and others who attack the faith are undermining science due to the fact that you don't recognize it when it is written in another language.
That is part of the cosmic joke. How else could anyone go from being a wild anti-christ to being willing to die for Christ? There is something here that the non-believers aren't getting, though they don't realize.
It's ok, because Christ's discipline accounts for these things. Christ's discipline is the glue that holds together marriages and raises good children. Showing charity towards those who are being superstitious is something that Christianity makes room for.
No one cares about what some loud mouth preacher yelling about fire and chains thinks, he isn't God. You know what though? Maybe that loud mouth preacher who seems to be yelling condemnation is really speaking to the soul of people who really needed to hear that.
There is a place for it all. Stop being haters. Ya'll need Jesus.
Quick quiz for you - this is different from any other religion in which ways? Again, if you've never studied world religions, I can understand how this makes no sense to you. I have. I've studied the bible rather extensively, and read several other religious texts. Yes, even the Book of Mormon.
It's really silly, by the way. Just like living in a giant fish, and talking burning bushes. I will admit, I didn't read much of it.
So you've done surface readings and gleamings of scriptures that people dedicate their entire lives to studying.
You must be quite the expert on theology.
I'm not impressed by your so called credentials. What impresses me more than that is what is true.
You aren't telling me anything interesting. I'm telling you Truth.
The Lord our God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, to whom we relate to in love by allowing the spirit of truth to guide us through in this reality we experience.
It's a pretty simple faith that you seem awfully superstitious about. Perhaps in your theological studies you missed out on how integral "The letter kills, but the spirit brings life" is as an all pervasive message throughout the writings of the prophets and The New Testament.
You don't even know what the good news is. It's all speaking in tongues to you right? If you really know what you are doing, why do you call for the crucifixion of Jesus? The Jesus you believe is not the Jesus I believe, that's for sure. There is definitely a case of mistaken identity going on.
I am speaking of The Word. The Word being God. Believe that The Word is what The Word says it is.
What does that mean?
Believe when I say "God" or "The Supreme and Ultimate Reality", that is what I am talking about. The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. What that really means. The spirit behind it. I'm not talking about an arbitrary pronunciation of syllables, I'm talking about a meaning. An intent. I'm talking about the very essence of what "The Supreme and Ultimate Reality" IS. This is the God of faith, The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. That is what "God" with a capital "G" means.
So what is the faith? The faith is in God. It is very simple. So simple that even children can understand it. So simple, yet it confounds the wise. Is God not the evident Truth? That is the essence of God.
You take religion as the vain ritual directed at idols, because that is what it looks like when you see it. Well, the prophets have a lot to say about all this too.
You wouldn't know, because you have not studied the bible as extensively as you let on. Even if you have though, this is no guarantee that you have any understanding. Who were the scribes and the pharisees? They were very educated in matters pertaining to religion. These were the ones who killed Jesus. Why? For the same reason you kill Jesus. You think you know something.
Well, I'll have you know that I don't know, and that puts me on a totally different level. My faith is not in knowledge, it is not a gnostic faith. My faith is in The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, which is greater than knowledge. When it comes to knowledge, I do not know. Mine is not a gnostic faith.
I've never claimed any credentials. You seem so intent on making it all about your religion, and don't have the vaguest clue how similar it is to most of the others. You also continue to assume I know nothing about it - which is patently untrue. You ramble on, saying precisely the exact same thing I've literally heard and seen all of my life - as if it was something I hadn't already been subjected to, continuously.
You claim agnosticism, yet present this as an absolute truth. Gee, whilickers, but if you don't know, maybe a little more humility is in order.
Have you read the bible? Do you know the truth of...at least...it? Are you familiar with the verses where a bald man gets teased by children, and your god sends bears to maul the children? Surely you know of the passover, when your god killed the first born, of all of a city, including young children and even babies?
Do you have any understanding of the huge number of inconsistencies, and even outright contradictions in it?
Let's start with something stunningly simple. The Romans never made everyone travel to their place of birth. The amount of chaos that would cause is simply insane.
I clearly understand scripture better than you because not only am I aware of all these issues you have with scripture but it doesn't effect my ability to study or accept the intent of scripure.
You don't understand the intent of scripture. You've probably heard this one a thousand times too, doesn't make it any less true... You lack context.
See, you are still superstitious about God. You've made God into some image that you can hold onto and make sense of, but you fail to realize that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. If you think that you can make sense of that, you clearly don't understand what that means.
What can be understood though is that it is absolutely necessary, and that is what the faith is in.
So go on and make these claims of hearing things your whole life as if it gives you authority. That can totally be spun around on you to claim that you have to be told hundreds of times something in order to get it, but whatever. Hey, when I was younger I used to say THE SAME THING. Then what do you know, my viewpoint changed. Funny how that happens huh? I've learned not to lean too much on my own understanding.
I'm not here to make fun of you, though. I will say that you aren't going to learn if you already think you know everything. You still don't understand what I'm saying, but your words reveal a great deal of what is on your heart. All these smudges clouding your heart keep you from seeing God. As it is written, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God."
Struggle for purity of heart is an integral part of the Christian discipline.
Reading about a discipline and then practicing it are two very different animals. Reading about a scientific experiment is very different from actually performing a scientific experiment. Dig?
As if your life is any less vain than my own. I got news for you, buddy. One day, you will die. There will be a time when all of your accomplishments will be forgotten. Nobody will remember you, not even your name.
I'm not concerned about whether or not I've wasted my life. Maybe these things concern you? Not me. I will be used by God to do whatever it is God wills.
Good for you. Seriously, if you're happy with your life, that's what's important - but if you're actually agnostic, you should be able to understand that your values are not what's important to somebody else.
It is meaningless to you because the truth is arbitrary.
No, a gnostic is someone who puts their faith in knowledge. In understanding. In science. My faith is in The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, which is clearly greater than all of these things. None of these things could even be without The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.
That is my message that God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, and your belief or disbelief has no bearing on whether or not The One True God exists.
You say they are meaningless pronouncements because you won't accept them as true, despite the fact that these pronouncements are matters of identity. You refuse to actually look at what has been given to you as the identity.
The identity of God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, and there is no denying The Necessary Existence. Without The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, there could be no reality. Everything that exists does so by the direct result of God.
How can you deny God?
Why don't you just shout at me, "Present your evidence to me that it is true that there is such a thing as truth!".
Atheism towards my God is not a reasonable position. It is not even a defensible position. It fails at its assertion. You deny my God? You have undermined everything you stand on. You stand on nothing.
Repent and believe the good news that it is THE TRUTH that saves you.
And more poor. But ya got that useless journalism degree to pay for while we don't. You're a genius. What year will it be when you get that thing paid off? 2050?
You gotta understand that before we had the knowledge of the world that we have today that the ancient peoples did not fully understand what was going on so they created stories to come up with reasons that made sense to them
Well, it IS an EXCELLENT business.. It's good for the customers too... For example, if they're looking for an escape clause to save them from hell, Christianity offers it.. All they gotta DO is say some magic words on Sunday, and they're forgiven for being an asshole last Monday.. Who wouldn't want something like that?
So it's like liberalism. You can condemn anyone for anything, then go do it yourself, the flock will forgive you, and you can feel good about yourself because you demanded help for the poor without dropping a dime in the offering plate to actually help. It's a good business for its leaders, acting like the ethics/morality police, and getting re-elected to be the liberal Popes and bishops for another few years. Life is good for the liberal priest. You can accuse everyone of groping and molesting as your flock yells "crucify him", and then you yourself can rape, molest, take pictures of it, villify the "victims", etc, and the flock won't condemn you, Hollywood will glorify you, the media will foam at the mouth over you, and then said "flock" will actually intentionally try to give you more money, more power, and more social control.
What's great about being a liberal bishop is you don't actually have to make sense at the pulpit. If you can self identify as some sort of minority that ranks high on the liberal pecking order of untouchables, you can literally take a piss on the flag in front of the congregation, demand the females in the congregation put on their burkas, glorify illegal drug use, preach there are 48 genders, preach that people are good or bad based on their race, demonize those who inforce the law as the enemy, call anyone that disagrees with you Hitler, and on and on and on.
Imagine Con, the magnitude of the amount of religious brainwashing it would take to actually get people to buy into this shit. You'd literally have to control the media, the movies, the schools, be willing to use violence to stop any opposing views, and be willing to call anyone that doesn't adhere willingly to the groupthink a Nazi or a fascist. But that'll never happen. This is America......
knowing full well that most religious people are conservatives
You must be confused about America Quantum. So your claim is that the Mexican Catholics, the black Protestants, and the Arab Muslims in America vote on the right? Bwahahahahahahaha!
"Why bronto? Why are you prepared to turn reality itself upside down to promote your vile brand of national populism?"
It used to be we thought that people who went around correcting other people’s grammar were just plain annoying. Now there’s evidence they are actually ill, suffering from a type of obsessive-compulsive disorder/oppositional defiant disorder (OCD/ODD). Researchers are calling it Grammatical Pedantry Syndrome, or GPS
new evidence from fMRI scans of brains exposed to real-time grammatical errors, has led some scientists to predict that soon we may be able to find a cure for GPS, for many sufferers a debilitating, off-putting, sociopathic syndrome.
Behind all grammar corrections, back-handed compliments, and “it’s-only-a-joke” jibes lies hidden anger. When a Grammar Bully corrects your grammar (especially strangers online), you can rest assured that you are not the cause of his anger. Your word usage was simply the trigger of that anger. The Grammar Bully is in need of companionship, so publicly correcting you sends the homing beacon out to other Grammar Bullies. Grammar Bully is ringing in the friends with whom he can bond over mutual hate of the their/they’re misstep.
When we are angry or stressed, a bonding hormone called oxytocin is released, urging us to form social connections with other humans so as to better our chances for surviving the cause of the stress. A Grammar Bully is feeling insecure in some way, and the insecurity is driving her to gather up friends. Many observers may think the Grammar Bully is about belittling others, but really, the Grammar Bully is just looking to find other Grammar Bullies because she is feeling angry and/or stressed.
Anger can be subconscious and many times it is. We are discouraged from expressing anger when out and about in polite society, so we suppress it. Unfortunately, anger is one of those emotions that bubbles up to the surface. Grammar-correcting behavior is one of suppressed anger’s outlets.
So, you don't DENY that you can be an asshole on Monday and be forgiven for it on Sunday... And, your only response is to attack liberalism.. That's funny, Dude..
But, let's stay on point, shall we? In order to BE a good Jew, you have to LIVE like one, and NOT a week at a time either..
So, you don't DENY that you can be an asshole on Monday and be forgiven for it on Sunday... And, your only response is to attack liberalism.. That's funny, Dude
Everyone acts like an asshole. And some look for grace from God, and others demonize you, then run and do it themselves, and never ask anyone for forgiveness unless they get caught. We call these magic unicorns liberals, yes. They love to preach. But at the end of the day, they get caught not doing any of what their sermons told everyone else they should be doing. I'll give you some fun liberal sermons with examples.
Sermon 1: Do not grope.
Then they grope. And not only do they grope, but they get caught groping faster than I can count them. But at least these ass grabbing hands are liberal, eh Con?
Sermon 2: Fight for women's rights.
Then they ignore Muslim women's rights and/or Conservative women's rights.
Sermon 3: Defend gay rights.
Then they ignore gays massacred by Muslims and trash Conservative LGBTQs.
Sermon 4: Be politically correct and tollerant.
Then they go around attacking and killing Conservatives and using words like the "n" word, cracker, honky, etc.
5)Love the black man.
Then they try to destroy Clarence Thomas, Allen West, Larry Elder, and the like.
6)Love the gay man.
Then they try to destroy Yianoupolis, Thiel, Dave Rubin, etc.
7)Love the immigrant.
Then they tell us how quiet little Melania can't dress herself, can't decorate, and post her as the evil "Snow Queen".
In fact, Godwin himself encourages people to call Trump a Nazi in the linked interview, so I'm afraid you can't hide your politics behind him. Better try something else, Herr Bronto.
But, let's stay on point, shall we? In order to BE a good Jew, you have to LIVE like one, and NOT a week at a time either
And yet, there's a zero percent chance that you could find a Jew or anyone else who is always "good" every time. It might be what the Old Testament suffering servant verses were about, eh Con?
I know it's been a while since you entered the church, so let's refresh.
It used to be we thought that people who went around correcting other people’s grammar were just plain annoying. Now there’s evidence they are actually ill, suffering from a type of obsessive-compulsive disorder/oppositional defiant disorder (OCD/ODD). Researchers are calling it Grammatical Pedantry Syndrome, or GPS
new evidence from fMRI scans of brains exposed to real-time grammatical errors, has led some scientists to predict that soon we may be able to find a cure for GPS, for many sufferers a debilitating, off-putting, sociopathic syndrome.
Behind all grammar corrections, back-handed compliments, and “it’s-only-a-joke” jibes lies hidden anger. When a Grammar Bully corrects your grammar (especially strangers online), you can rest assured that you are not the cause of his anger. Your word usage was simply the trigger of that anger. The Grammar Bully is in need of companionship, so publicly correcting you sends the homing beacon out to other Grammar Bullies. Grammar Bully is ringing in the friends with whom he can bond over mutual hate of the their/they’re misstep.
When we are angry or stressed, a bonding hormone called oxytocin is released, urging us to form social connections with other humans so as to better our chances for surviving the cause of the stress. A Grammar Bully is feeling insecure in some way, and the insecurity is driving her to gather up friends. Many observers may think the Grammar Bully is about belittling others, but really, the Grammar Bully is just looking to find other Grammar Bullies because she is feeling angry and/or stressed.
Anger can be subconscious and many times it is. We are discouraged from expressing anger when out and about in polite society, so we suppress it. Unfortunately, anger is one of those emotions that bubbles up to the surface. Grammar-correcting behavior is one of suppressed anger’s outlets.
See Con, the point is? No one is good. You can fake it. You can try. You can lie about it. You can lie to yourself. But even the greatest of men and women are corrupt and evil on some level. You can break anyone. You can push anyone past their threshold. All men fail somewhere.
Here's the suffering servant verses to refresh your brain, and they come from the Jewish Old Testament, not Christianity.
The point? If you could read minds and see hearts, everyone would seem evil and filthy. The only thing left is redemption. Either one seeks it and accepts it, or they don't, and perhaps what is in a redemption seeking heart vs a non redemption seeking heart is the difference.
All they gotta DO is say some magic words on Sunday, and they're forgiven for being an asshole last Monday
Al Franken must be religious. I just watched him come out and say "sorry for molesting and groping those women" and the flock forgave him. It was very mysterious and magical now wasn't it?
I don't think that was evidently backed up. Not all is forgiven in every religion. in Protestant Christianity it is believed that you will be judged and depending on how you lived you would be excepted into Heaven or rejected into Hell. However, in Roman Catholicism, it is believed that all will be forgiven.
The point is they're afraid. Afraid they don't have the answer unless they believe in God. Afraid unfair or bad things will happen to them if they don't please God. Afraid death is final and torturous if not for God. So they adopt the God beliefs so they can forget about all those things and just believe it will all work out for the best for them.
When others refuse to believe in God, or the same God in the same way, then it threatens their facade that they're going to be alright, and they react to that new information with anger, and threats of eternal damnation and torture, and the arrogance that they will be saved while their critics will be put through hell.
Now the religious on this site will dogpile on me. And why? Because they react more harshly to people who try to talk sensibly than they do to people with actual wicked beliefs. A satan worshipper would not get the same level of attention in their replies that a humanist or atheist or even just a Christian asking challenging questions to other Christians would get. And that's all proof that what I say about being afraid is true.
I disagree, if you are a true Christian, you wouldn't be arrogant and mean, because real christians are kind and nice to everyone. Christians aren't afraid of God...... because they know after they become a Christian, they know God will take care of him/her.
Just wanted to say I got a down vote for this. What sort of Christian votes down somebody praising someone else for their Christianity? Hmm? Well, that would be the kind who are arrogant and judgmental and are ready to tell other Christians they're not even Christian.
So those that call themselves Christians, but live miserable lives, are not real Christians? Good examples might be Jesus' disciples, who reputedly had very difficult lives...
I disagree, if you are a true Christian, you wouldn't be arrogant and mean
Christians say this a lot, but it is difficult to deny the bloodlust of the Bible given that it is written in black and white for everybody to see. I hate to tell you this, but just because you have chosen to obey only the good parts, does not mean good parts are all there are.
You don't understand the intent of what you call "the bad parts". You think that these are things that Christians are bound to do. You don't understand that a great deal of what scripture does is DEMONSTRATE.
Do you expect scripture to be filled with a bunch of happy all PG inoffensive material? Well, there are plenty of believers in God who would crumble at the problem of evil because they don't understand that their God is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, not a ball of furry kitten love shooting happy happy beams at everything. God is sovereign over all things, even the things that look bad to us.
I don't have my beliefs because of fear of personal harm.
I am not scared of nonexistence or death.
I know things will work out for the best, because my measure for "best" is what actually happens.
No, you don't get my beliefs at all. Judging by your strong opinions and the way you express them, probably too haughty to receive correction.You aren't talking sensibly to me, you are talking about things you don't understand.
I'm not trying to explain your personal reasons, here, but the reason why religions exist at all. Don't take it so personally - you're absolutely right - I don't know you. This isn't about you - or any other particular person.
No, the reason religion exists is not some power game. Do people use religion in their power games? Certainly, but the scriptures make it clear that those who take godliness as gain are wicked, and should be departed from.
So no, the religion that I profess to has nothing to do with human power games. Human institutions are not The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. Human institutions cannot be The Holy Catholic Church. At worst they are the vain idolatries of cultural trappings and at best they are images directing one's attention to the divine with sincere charity and a spirit of truth.
My God is your God, and it is the evident truth. You cannot deny The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. Now what is my religion? Sincerity of faith and charity is the relationship I have with God through the world to show my love and devotion to The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. This is the Christian discipline. The idea that it is about power and money is a clear corruption of the faith.
Christians are called to be servants of one another, not lords over each other.
So I'm saying that you don't understand the faith. Probably because you are making an identity fallacy. You believe that just because someone calls on the name of Jesus or even because a group of people call on the name of Jesus, that means that whatever they do in Jesus' name has to do with the teachings of Jesus, Christianity, or any good thing at all. Indeed, Jesus makes it clear that many will come and perform signs and wonders in the name of Jesus, but never really knew Jesus.
So no, taking it personally doesn't have as much to do with the fact that your accusations against religion are harmful. They are harmful because by scaring people away from all the things that you incorrectly believe have to do with the faith, you are also scaring people away from understanding the faith itself.
So what you are doing is harmful. Even if you believe it is all a bunch of bunk, the fact is you are saying things that may discourage people from attempting to understand this group they might now look at as being freakish. You aren't being very diplomatic.
No, it's not about me. It's about you attacking my faith and those who claim to profess it. I would rather help you to understand it better. I'm not going to be able to do this if you already think you know.
And I claimed it was? Please show me that. I have claimed that it has been used as such, just as you just stated. I can assure you that there are those that have made it their point.
Next - please elucidate - explain how it is I don't know your faith.
I can virtually guarantee you can't show me anything I haven't already seen hundreds of times - and likely, experienced directly.
Not my religion. You say that these people who make religion a power game practice my faith. They very clearly aren't. The scriptures make it clear that the people who take godliness as gain are wicked. They are not practicing my faith, even if they say they are.
Since you believe that people are who they say they are, do you believe that if a man walks up to you and tells you that they are a pan-gendered flamingo that means they are what they say they are?
Because you and society in general doesn't understand what an identity fallacy is, intelligence agencies are able to get away with operations such as COINTELPROS and throw you off the mark.
So what now? What was your question? Explain how it is you don't know my faith? Oh you say you've seen everything and experience directly so many things?
If you know so much, go on thinking you know everything. Evidently, there is nothing that you can be taught, Mr. Grand Poobah of Enlightenment, so really this conversation must be a grand waste of your time. Probably mine as well. After all, you really know.
Your faith is christianity, is it not? I grew up in the church. I was studying the bible before I ever went to school. Feel free to argue the 'no true Scottsman' fallacy all you like...there's a reason it's a fallacy. These people read straight from the bible, often enough. Are they not following the ways of christ? Of course not - but then, nobody is. Have you given up all worldly goods? No. Jesus commands it, for his followers:
"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me."
I'm not making a "No true Scottsman" fallacy. You are making an identity fallacy. You are making an identity fallacy because you have no idea what a Christian is. It might as well be a nationality, a culture, or a meaningless self declaration to you.
Replace the word "Christian" with "rabbit" and it'll make it more clear.
But I'm not talking about Christians. You can't look at anything other than what you think are Christians. It is easier to judge Christians.
But if you want to get personal, I spent 8 years as a traveling preacher on foot who hitchhiked everywhere. So to say there is no one doing it isn't true. My best friend sleeps in hammocks outside, and he is a minister as well.
So why am I not doing it anymore? Because I am not in the physical health to do so anymore. I have a broken back. I've had one surgery. They are trying to tell me that I need to go into another one soon. I have a wife now. Things change.
But besides all that on the aside, because I am not trying to make myself big.. You are still taking what Jesus says out of context. You don't know what you are talking about.
And me telling you that you don't know what you are talking about will be about as effective on you as you telling me that you've studied something your whole life and know everything.
The difference here though, is we are talking about what I believe. I'm telling you that you don't understand what I believe. You are telling me that you do. If you can't get me to agree that you understand me, what makes you think you can make an effective argument?
I'm not a little baby Christian who doesn't know any better and might be swayed by your tricks. I've seen all this before. My whole life. Yes, I can play that game too. I wouldn't be lying either.
But God has been proven conclusively to me, and my faith is unshakable. If you are trying to break my faith, it is an exercise in futility.
I'm not stupid enough to think I could convince you or anyone of anything. The one who does that is God. I'm just a passerby planting a seed here, watering a bush there. I'm not the one who makes the plants grow.
The God I believe in is The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. If you understand what that means, the evidence for my God is everywhere. What is my religion? My religion is God, The One and Only.
You don't understand my faith. I'm reasonably sure of this.
You have a wife? A family? Do you know what Jesus said about that?
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."
Luke 14:26
I guess either you aren't a disciple of christ, or maybe don't follow the bible at all.
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer."
Maybe you don't know the bible as well as you think you do.
My wife loves God more than she loves me. I love God more than I love my wife. That is the only way it'd ever work between us. I can't love my wife more than God. I do love my wife though, and if having a wife is a bad thing, why is it that the scriptures say,
"Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing,
and obtaineth favour of the Lord."
I say you are believing the doctrines of devils, because it isn't my faith.
How's that Stalin vibrater working Quantum. Did his stache tickle your vagina? Does it sound like the screams of millions of his own people when you turn it on?
How is it possible that you can be illiterate at forty six years old? And with big red lines underneath your words to tell you when you're writing gibberish? Is education really that bad in America?
Yes, when you claimed a dog was better than a female wife
No, I claimed a dog was better than a female wife who doesn't really love you. You deny that you like Hitler, and yet you twist and change other people's words just like he did. Funny that, wouldn't you say?
Clearly women disagree, or you would have a girlfriend wouldn't you?
Who said I don't?
This is really sad. I actually pity you enough to help you out because you need it desperately. Here, I found you some help. Let bronto educate you young one.
Let's just say you give out the aura of someone who is single, and leave it at that.
I actually pity you
That's cool. Is there anybody else you pity, or is it just me, women and liberals?
Let's keep it real, bronto. You are forty six years old and borderline illiterate. You have no wife, no kids and you spend your entire life promoting fascism on a low traffic internet website. You believe you live on an Indian reservation in a state in which there are no Indian reservations, and you believe being a Christian is about wanting to kill Muslims.
Your psychological rights to pity anybody have been removed by virtue of your own incredibly pathetic situation.
Actually I'm quite well off and have a lot of sex.
See, I'll disappear from the site shortly for many hours, and you will still be here when I get back, won't you Virginclature? Yes, we both know you will.
D. None of the above. Remember me being gone for a week duringThanksgiving and you saying"missed you buddy. Where you been?" Yes. I was with my kids. You? Were here eating imaginary turkey.
It used to be we thought that people who went around correcting other people’s grammar were just plain annoying. Now there’s evidence they are actually ill, suffering from a type of obsessive-compulsive disorder/oppositional defiant disorder (OCD/ODD). Researchers are calling it Grammatical Pedantry Syndrome, or GPS
new evidence from fMRI scans of brains exposed to real-time grammatical errors, has led some scientists to predict that soon we may be able to find a cure for GPS, for many sufferers a debilitating, off-putting, sociopathic syndrome.
Behind all grammar corrections, back-handed compliments, and “it’s-only-a-joke” jibes lies hidden anger. When a Grammar Bully corrects your grammar (especially strangers online), you can rest assured that you are not the cause of his anger. Your word usage was simply the trigger of that anger. The Grammar Bully is in need of companionship, so publicly correcting you sends the homing beacon out to other Grammar Bullies. Grammar Bully is ringing in the friends with whom he can bond over mutual hate of the their/they’re misstep.
When we are angry or stressed, a bonding hormone called oxytocin is released, urging us to form social connections with other humans so as to better our chances for surviving the cause of the stress. A Grammar Bully is feeling insecure in some way, and the insecurity is driving her to gather up friends. Many observers may think the Grammar Bully is about belittling others, but really, the Grammar Bully is just looking to find other Grammar Bullies because she is feeling angry and/or stressed.
Anger can be subconscious and many times it is. We are discouraged from expressing anger when out and about in polite society, so we suppress it. Unfortunately, anger is one of those emotions that bubbles up to the surface. Grammar-correcting behavior is one of suppressed anger’s outlets.
I have kids and am actually pretty good with women. And you? Are a bleeding heart virgin because women aren't certain that you are a real man. Would you like some tips?
So you wish to deny Jesus' words and substitute your own explanation? I'm ok with that - your explanation seems more reasonable than the bible - which you've just shown in contradiction of Jesus' words.
In other words, you would rather debate scripture than God because it is the easy battle for you. It is easy because we are dealing with created things. You are taking the chair of accuser of the brethren. You have adopted the position of devil. You only care about condemning, you who call for the crucifixion of Jesus.
No, this will go on forever. If we play this game, there will be no end. The reason for this is because you are superstitious and don't really understand the bible or show it any type of reverence. In the story, we're talking about a man who walked around telling people to eat his flesh and drink his blood. You don't yet get the major theme of The New Testament that, "The letter kills, but the spirit brings life".
Do you want the hard battle? Why don't you actually get to what it is really all about. I'm of course talking about God. This is the actual faith. You take it as the idolatry of man, scripture, institution, or any of these other things. You take it that way because you only have a surface understanding. You don't really get it. Lets make this simple.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality.
Do you deny The Supreme and Ultimate Reality? Do you deny your God?
I have no god. I really don't need fictional beings muddying up my life. Do you really deny Santa Claus?
I submit that his existence is at least as likely. See? I'm debating god. This will be my last post to you on this debate, though, as you've taken it completely off subject. My initial posts were answering the debate topic, until you got so butthurt.
You believe that The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is a fictional being?
No wonder you make so little sense. You are an atheist. You don't even believe there is such a thing as truth.
Yes, this is the last contribution you can make on this debate, because you've admitted yourself to being a liar. You've admitted to embracing arbitrariness now both in deed and in word. Nothing else really needs to be said.
Good for you. You're another example of a believer who personally I don't really have an issue with. You believe what you do and you're not trying to cram it down the throat of those who don't. I'm sorry if my response, which was more in mind to the FromWithin and SaintNow crowd of CreateDebate, came across harshly on the rest of you.
Any believer who is trying to cram their beliefs down the throat of other people either doesn't understand what they are doing or are being judged harshly by those who are seeing them as being this obnoxious.
Either way, personally having a problem with me has very little to do with the fact that you are making statements about the faith. IF you are not, you are making statements about people who profess the faith. Either directly or by proxy means you are attacking or attempting to undermine the faith.
So really, if you have an issue with the faith, lets talk about the faith. If you have an issue with people, why attach the faith to it? Do people do these things? All the time. That does not make it civilized or noble behavior.
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality, The One True God is greater than all of this.
People can believe whatever they want to believe, so I really don't have an issue with the faith. Just with people who seem to enjoy getting uppety in the name of faith.
Maybe you should stop letting it bother you, because it'll never go away.
The fact that you are getting uppety about people getting uppety in the name of faith kind of puts you on the same level in the end, doesn't it? What did Jesus mean when he said, "The measure you use to judge will be used to judge you?". You point the finger and have three pointed back at you!
Show some charity to the people you have issue with. That'll be more educational for everyone involved. That is what people who love truth do. Loving God is about loving The Truth.
So when those people who “love truth” ban us and then mock on and on after the ban we should just do the Christlike thing of banning then and mocking them after the ban? Got it.
Or you know, you could keep no record of wrongs and show charity regardless.
We all are forgiven many offenses. Those who live mercilessly will one day find out that God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud.
Christian scripture makes it very clear that everyone is a sinner saved by grace not works. The scriptures make it very clear that the state of man is sinfulness. So what good does it to expect Christians to be perfect? Truthfully, you aren't really much better. Who is?
There are plenty of people who call themselves Christians that make the whole thing seem unappealing. Superstition is rampant among believers and unbelievers alike. Bad attitudes and sinfulness is rampant among believers and unbelievers alike.
What do we really have in common here though? We are basing our facts on self witness or personal declaration.
Just because someone says they are something doesn't mean that they are that something. So if someone says they are a Christian, and you judge the whole of Christianity based your interaction with that one person, how are you not committing an identity fallacy? That self declared Christian is not Christianity. The same goes for a group as well as an individual.
The point is, Christianity is not about placing man, scripture, institution, or any other created thing before God. What are you placing before God?
The faith is in The Supreme and Ultimate Reality and our relationship to it. It is a faith that transcends all these cultural trappings, but at the same time gives new life to them. Somehow, it all works out and was meant to be this way. It's all good.
ROFLOL, three bigots from this site spewing their anti Christian bigotry as always.
Do you judgemental hypocrites ever tire of showing everyone your hypocritical intolerance for Christians and those who do not think like you? Wat happen to your inclusiveness and tolerance and openmindedness? Oh I forget, that only applies to your political correct groups who think like the humanistic Collective..
I already ban two of these hypocritical bigots from my debates. Looks like I'm findng another intolerant bigot to ban.
I'm just slightly less judgmental than my two associates here, in that I feel that religion IS important to many who have trouble handling adversity or understanding science. Being hypocritical is NOT an act wholly owned by atheists, it's FAR more rampant in the Christian world ... they just have far more "conservative" definition of it, somewhat balanced by a far more "liberal" definition when it applies to themselves.
Obviously, I am totally with them when it comes to the authoritarian way Christians demand everyone follow THEIR rules! THEY are bigots to other religions, other beliefs, forcing people to drop THEIR openmindedness", "inclusiveness", and "tolerance". (Hypocrisy?) Oh, I forget, that only applies to your Christianly correct groups who think like the pious collective...
If I am not one of the already banned, I suspect I will be now. I would remind you that I was one of the few (maybe the only) that praised your decision to temper your juvenile banning practices, but, if you wish to follow Christianity, I have no objection. If you wish to continue as a intolerant bigot .. looks like you've found another "debater" to ban. So sad, your intolerance, your hypocricy.....:-( .
You should think about coming over to "the dark side". ;-)
You should thik about being an honest person and stop lying about Christians.
Tell me where Christians are demanding everyone to follow their rules? Do you mean like how the Left FORCED EVERY STATE TO CHANGE THEIR MARRIAGE LAWS?
You are describing the Left and political correctness. If a person, or State, or pubic school does not tow the PC way of thinking, they are labeled phobics and will be sued!
Look at your own authoritative demanding hypocrisy before judging others.
You are presuming too much here. I am not judgemental or bigotted at all. I will put forward my findings as they appear to me. I may completely disagree with you or I may be of a similar belief in some areas, and I will fight for your right to believe anything you want to.
I am very open-minded and I tolerate many things, and when I want complete and honest answers from people I push hard enough to elicit their responses in full. We gain more from answers that are given with enthusiasm and emotion attached rather than dull, flat, unimaginative replies. That would be boring and we would not stretch each other very far.
I would like to discuss this subject further and I welcome any contribution you have to offer if it is given freely and in earnest, but you also have the right to be the lofty and condescending one too. The choice is yours. One way opens it all up and makes available all avenues. The other closes it down and brings communication to an end.
Nobody knows what the point of Progressivism is. As for keeping them from acting like assholes? Hmmmm.... illegal drugs doesn't seem to be working, so how about we have Christmas four times a year and see if that helps their mood.
You're wrong in that nobody knows the point of progressivism, and I'll take the time to tutor you on it, if you feel the urge to learn about what you missed in school.
You're wrong in that nobody knows the point of progressivism, and I'll take the time to tutor you on it, if you feel the urge to learn about what you missed in school.
Bronto is just a fascist lunatic. The best thing to do with guys like that is ignore them, but they make it very difficult by being the same ones who bombard you with replies.
I would remind you that Christianity is NOT a "conservative thing". MANY "progressives" practice Christianity, just not so much the Evangelical type. Like Islam, there are many "cults" that are only "godly" in their own minds! That "illegal drug" problem you talked about only became as epidemic as it IS after conservative capitalists allowed (encouraged) doctors to over prescribe drugs that brought them more $Billions. That DID seem to work! (Assholes??)
I vote we keep it to "Happy Holidays" four times a year (or more) ... and "Merry Christmas" ONCE a year, like it calls for in the Bible ... at least as Saint Francis of Assisi envisioned it. But, as a tolerant atheist, it seems YOU may need it 4 times a year to improve YOUR mood ... be my guest.
What better way to look sanctimonious than to make something spiritual sounding a high flying part of your identity!
The thing is, you are going to have this problem of perception even if you are a genuinely humble person. It has to do with claiming identity at all. Takes a certain level of pride.
Unfortunately, they don't really teach identity fallacies in school, otherwise societal mental illness might go down(which is bad for business), and none of their indoctrination propaganda will work.
But nah, I mean hey... People can believe they are who they say they are ALL THEY WANT. I don't think they know what they are talking about.
Not everyone who joins becomes lofty or arrogant, it will depend on the teaching of that church and the actual person.
Many people who join do so to be a part of something larger, to be a part of a community that holds the same values they do, which is why you get a lot of church hoppers, those who go from church to church to find something that aligns with what they believe in.
Many churches take pride in their community, doing events and charities that help those less fortunate, it's wonderful to be a part of that and to see others doing it as well.
The point in religion is believing in something and looking forward to something, if you are christian and believe in heaven or hell or afterlife then you have that to look forward to instead of thinking when we die its just nothing. Religion is just stating your belief
When people of faith join a religion, such as Christianity, why do they become lofty, arrogant and condescending in their nature when they are meant to become simple, kind, honest and caring? What can be done to prevent this from happening?
Apes will still act like Apes regardless of what they "believe". A standard distribution of intelligence, social behavior, self-concept, ect. applies regardless of ones religious affiliation or lack thereof (however, it is important to note, differing groups will select for various standard averages in these categories also)
Religion is nothing it is the path to meet our god.. god not created religion .. god created many paths to meet them.. we human used our mind and for our personal benefits given every path a religion name. there is only two types of religion- good human being and bad human being.. all person who are good human being comes under one religion in-respect to which path he followed.and all bad human being comes under other religion. so stop dividing human based on their path to reach god. segregate them based on the good or bad human being.
p.s. - good human being means one who help other. kind to other etc.
When people of faith join a religion, such as Christianity, why do they become lofty, arrogant and condescending in their nature when they are meant to become simple, kind, honest and caring? What can be done to prevent this from happening?
Nothing can really be done unless you're a Christian. Christians have a right to actually encourage one another in love. If you're not a Christian you have no right telling other Christians what they can or cannot do because they don't have any basis for any moral complaint because there worldview is different and inconsistent.