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Debate Score:38
Arguments:27
Total Votes:43
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jessald(1915) pic



What is your vision for what America can be?

The Obama administration wants your opinion:

"Start right now. Share your vision for what America can be, where President-Elect Obama should lead this country. Where should we start together?"


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3 points

I'm hoping for two pretty fundamental things from the Obama administration: an understanding of what's best for this country, and the ability to carry out those ideas.

The first part, understanding what's best, can come from carefully weighing the opinions of a wide variety of knowledgeable people and coming to a consensus about what is most likely to work. I'm hoping ideas will be accepted based on their merit rather than their political implications.

As for the second part, ability to execute, I think it is very important that we have ways of measuring the effectiveness of any actions we take. Theory is not enough, we need clear evidence to show that our actions are working. And we should use these measurements to improve the effectiveness of our techniques.

Side: Competence
3 points

A government which actually obeys the contitution. Like, removing the federal reserve, public education, standing armies, foreign involvement, unconstitutional taxes, the end of the two-party system, ending the corporation in its current form (no more protected legal personages) and none which do not serve the public good at no profit. Complete separation of church & state (no tax-exempt religious institutions or religious operations of any kind), ending of trade embargos damaging to developing nations, withdrawal from the UN, an honest currency not based on debt or usury, well..okay I'm tired now.

Think Obama's gonna push for my dream? ^_^

Side: Is this the Ministry of Hope
jessald(1915) Disputed
1 point

No public education? Then how will the poor become educated?

Withdrawal from the UN? What's wrong with the UN? How could you be against an organization whose stated aims are to facilitate cooperation in international law, international security, economic development, social progress, human rights, and achieving world peace?

The rest of your post seems reasonable. Did you submit it?

Side: Is this the Ministry of Hope
1 point

The U.N. is none of those things you attributed to it. The U.N. is a group of nations trying to get as much as possible for their respective countries. The reason the food for oil program didn't work in Saddam's Iraq is because the same countries that voted for the program were benefitting from it by violating it.

Side: Is this the Ministry of Hope
sparsely(498) Disputed
1 point

Sorry for the delayed rebuttal. This response just got overlooked.

In my previous comment I was trying to be more glib than I was succinct, so forgive me if I didn't transmit my intention wholly. Public education is an extra-constitutional idea/institution. The federal government has no authority to fund, withhold funds from, or compel, a public education system. This is a matter that should be left up to the states.

If you're really concerned about educating the poor, however, we should develop ubiquitous free wi-fi, cheap laptops, and online classes for every learning path and development stage. Rather than sending our children to indoctrination centers and conformance/authoritarian "learning" camps, let them follow their own educational path with tools developed by smart people.

There are a lot of completely constitutional ways of accomplishing this, but public education in its current incarnation in the US is a joke.

As for the UN thing, it undermines not only our constitution and the principles this country was founded upon, but it compromises our sovereignty as a nation.

"We the people" is the idea that the people whom the government represents choose their representatives in a democratic process. When we relinquish our sovereignty to powers which are not democratically elected by the people of our nation, we have compromised our most essential foundations.

Being a good global neighbor doesn't require signing away the voice of the people.

Side: Is this the Ministry of Hope

Wow! I agree. One up vote.

Side: Is this the Ministry of Hope
2 points

I want America to be ahead of the social curve. I want America to be a place where equality is never jeopardized by any religion. I want America to be a place where those who voluntarily work for their community to make it a better place are more recognized and appreciated for what they do. I want America to have universal health care. I want America to reduce and if possible eliminate the gap between rich and poor. I want America to be a place where corruption finds no home or support. I want America to have the best education possible that is economically and socially accessible to everyone. I want America to be the leader in green technologies. I want America to worry more for its citizens than for corporations and their profits. I want America to focus on helping its own citizens instead of invading and occupying other nations to exploit them, dictate their government and force a capitalist economy. Most of all I want America to become compassionate about the world and all who inhabit it; to understand that we are not republicans or democrats, not Americans or non-Americans but humans on a planet with other humans and creatures.

Side: Compassion

The post Ta has set forth here is also my vision for America. To all that was so eloquently written I'd like to add that I want America to be respected around the world as the nation to look to for issues of humanity. Whether it be a safe haven from the twisted mind of tyranny, unbearable oppression or the lack of human rights. We must allow the Torch of "Our Lady in the Harbor" to shine brightly for all once again.

Side: Compassion
2 points

But a lot of what you write goes against human nature and some of the rest is just plain communism and we all know that didn't work.

Side: Compassion
1 point

How does what I wrote smack of communism Joe? Please explain.

Side: Compassion
ta9798(316) Disputed
1 point

Many of the things I said I want America to be are things that America once was and I just want to return to and then improve. Also none of this goes against human nature it just goes against capitalism, where I'll admit in american and many other places is accepted as human nature. There are many nations that have a form of universal health care and not only are they not communist but they will probably never be, such examples include Canada and most of Western Europe.

Are you against helping the poor because it is "communist". Helping the poor is just the wish to help your fellow human being, something I consider to be a natural and basic human instinct; any political or economic system can allow helping those in need and thus to say that any attempt to help the poor is communist seems rather ignorant and indifferent.

Side: Compassion

My vision is an America where the strong flourish. We need to put Darwinism back into our society and force the weak to try a little bit harder to better themselves, to push themselves, to be too proud to accept a handout unless it is absolutely necessary and above all, to stop their whining ;)

Side: Compassion
Bradf0rd(1431) Disputed
1 point

Why is it when someone mentions something like socialized healthcare, or the education system, conservatives scream "COMMUNIST!!!" or "SOCIALIST!!!", but fail to realize that by saying this they are placing themselves in the category of a fascist.

I mentioned this to one of my customers tonight, and he praised Hitler because he was strong, and "almost conquered all of europe"... without recalling that he did this by declaring marshal law and breaching the limits of the Treaty of Versailles on the basis that a) a terrorist set ablaze the german parliament, and b) jews are to blame for everything... and there's a master race that was meant to rule them all... because after all, they were a bunch of fascists and they "understood" that some were better fit to rule than others...

Fascists and Socialists have one thing in common. When they push their agenda, they point at the worst possible implementation of the ideology and use it to declare the ideology EVIL.

People shouldn't pick sides. Life is not perfect, it is not built around your life. Do what you can when you can. If that means standing above the rest, go right ahead, when that means giving all you have to the person "bellow" you, do it. There is no reason anyone should be so dead set on any particular order of things.

Side: Compassion

It's funny Bradford. It's 3 AM and I came down to write about the same thing.

I was in a big argument with someone that (from my point of view) has wrapped herself in causes, labels, agendas etc. In my mind she has made these things part of who she is. This makes it difficult to talk to her because if you say anything that can be construed as being against the cause then you are against the cause; and if you're against the cause, you're against her and are thus attacking her. This makes it difficult to have a conversation.

When I started thinking about how difficult it was to have a conversation with her, I started drawing parallels to political correctness. I see political correctness as shackles placed on the majority by the minority. The intent is to keep the majority from trampling on the little guy. But the problem is that some little guys have used this to trampled all over the big guy. This act is then portrayed as not being harmful to the big guy and as due compensation for the years where the big guy trampled all over the little guy. The thing is that trampling is not right and it eventually forces the one being trampled to over react and the pendulum swings too far to the other side.

The caricature I have on my head is an elephant standing on a chair in the corner of a room. One foot on the chair and the other 3 rearing back in fear, eyes wide with fear and a little mouse on the floor keeping him in check, If the elephant dares to move even just an inch, the mouse cries racism, sexism or some such thing to get the elephant back in line.

The problem with this caricature is that it is how I see it, not how the other side sees it. The other side sees an elephant not paying attention to the harm his actions are causing. The elephant is so big in this room that every time he moves he inadvertently destroys something or tramples on the little guy.

We are all aware of when we are being trampled on and we identify with a particular group. The group we identify with is the group that feels trampled when we feel trampled. That's why nations (for the most part) put their differences away and unite when they are attacked and fighting a common enemy. The enemy is doing the trampling. But I digress. The point is that once an individual joins a particular group, the perception of being trampled is magnified, the individual becomes more sensitive to it and sees it everywhere because he's looking for it so he's bound to find it. If the thing you are looking at is being magnified by your brain or feelings, you describe them as much larger than they really are. The other side doesn't see the thing magnified because it doesn't affect them (it doesn't trample them) so they can't understand the first side and claim that the first side exaggerating. The thing is that they are both doing it and thus talk past each other. They are both identifying with a group and magnifying their problems.

To recap. When one group gains the upper hand, they push their agenda (this is just human nature. no group is immune from this.) to the detriment of the other groups. If it becomes super strong, the other groups will experience evil and eventually over react. Each individual thinks he knows the tipping point.

People shouldn't pick sides. Picking sides closes your mind to the plight of the other side. A closed mind is not conducive to a rational conversation and communication breaks down. Communication break down leads to battles.

Side: Compassion
jessald(1915) Disputed
0 points

A key component of Darwinism is that some people are not able to reproduce -- usually because they die.

Just to be clear, are advocating allowing poor people to die?

Side: Darwinism

No, not the poor..... the weak..... those not strong enough to survive should be left to perish in order to strengthen the human herd.

For example, a buffalo herd is made faster and stronger by predators that pick off the weakest and slowest in the herd.

So, if I'm ever on life support, just pull the plug. No sense in wasting energy ;)

Side: Darwinism
1 point

Honesty and purity. That's all I ask for.

From the highest level of the government to the lowest citizen, just do your part.

Why do people commit crimes??? Why do people lie, cheat, steal? Why do people push so hard? Play by the rules, tell the truth, earn what you want. If you are so right, you can convince people that you are, you won't need to push if you talk and listen. Basic things really, just do your part in society. Please.

If you're rich, pay those taxes. If your poor, get educated and apply yourself.

As I'm typing this there is someone doing, maybe, 60mph down a very narrow street in a lifted white chevy, tires squealing around the corner, just to slam on the brakes and stop in the middle of the street to get out and scream at a house... it's 2:34am, this is what I'm talking about. The guy out there, in any case, is an idiot. Why does he need to be doing what he's doing... and now he's speeding off.

Goodnight.

Side: Community

We all have our different realities.

Side: Community