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Debate Info

52
37
Ecomomic Freedom Police State
Debate Score:89
Arguments:77
Total Votes:93
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Argument Ratio

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 Ecomomic Freedom (38)
 
 Police State (33)

Debate Creator

PrayerFails(11163) pic



What prevents crimes more effectively?

EFPolice State

Ecomomic Freedom

Side Score: 52
VS.

Police State

Side Score: 37

Free markets and minds creates the greatest economic opportunity for everyone where voluntary exchange is at its maximum where producers produce and consumers consume, and it effectively limits crime without having to redirect resources to an over aggressive police state.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
kozlov(1755) Clarified
1 point

Free Markets? Yes, they are free in the beginning, but like anything else, some people are better at business than others. These people then become more and more powerful until a social pyramid forms and we are back to square one. This pyramid is just like the predatory pyramid in nature, after all, humans are part of nature.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
2 points

Capitalism is about failure, and it allows people to learn from mistakes and compete better.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom

In a market society, consumption and production are the meaning of life. Everything is a commodity. Every human is inadvertently harnessed to serve the longevity of the system by the institutions of work and consumption.

People will not miss freedom once it is taken from them. A prostitute does not make a free decision to sell themselves, they do it because of the power exerted by others, but even freedom itself will be defined to serve the power interests. Advertisement and power affects everyone regardless of ideals of exchange.

The classical liberal Adam Smith said that a person who engages in repetitive labor as a means of survival will mostly become as stupid as a human being can be. As such, it is an awesome way of reducing crime.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
1 point

Freedom is an essential aspect of human nature as it pertains to all creatures.

Where is the source of Adam Smith quote?

Side: Police State

Anyone notice that there is tons of drugs, violence and rape in prisons? If you can't even stop crimes from occurring in prison, makes you think turning society into a prison via a police state will help?

Side: Ecomomic Freedom

I think a police state is a crime in of itself, so by it's very existance it is allowing the continuation of crime.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
1 point

If people have their needs met, then they do not need to steal food, clothing, money etc. This is also elevates the strain on their mental health because not meeting basic needs is stressful.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
2 points

There is no such thing as needs unless no human action is required. If it is a scarce resource, it is not a need, one must earn it.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
1 point

The way to earn the resource involves limiting other people's access to it with violently enforced authority. When people try their best to agree what belongs to whom, they are likely to make a deal that involves less violent enforcement by trying to satisfy the demands of every party.

In this case it doesn't matter if the party earned the resource, limiting their access is crime, which ought to be minimized if possible. The deal which is to the utility of it's participants is the least violent arrangement.

Side: Police State
2 points

Wrong, food, water and shelter all require human action, these things don't just appear out of nowhere and not free, even the act of stealing takes human action, so if the thieves are willing to engage in human action, why not productive means?

Free markets reduce crime through the act of productive means.

Side: Police State

For years the United States was the country for which one can be rich and own whatever he wants. One who has that economic freedom will tend not to commit crime.

But this economic freedom requires a system of classes. So, for one to be rich, there must be poor. So, even with economic freedom there will be crime. It is definitely not going to reduce crime.

More police isn't either. Police is kind of like really bad insecticide. If you have insect invasion, spaying them with insecticide is temporarily useful. But it will not prevent the insects from coming back.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
2 points

The common misperception is that there is a fix pie where only some will succeed and others won't, that is not true, economics shows that more than one pie is made with economic freedom. How do you think America got this far, poverty comes from government intervention.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
1 point

More jobs equals less crime. Now this won't eliminate crime altogether nothing will do that but it will avoid the economic desperation which leads many to commit crimes

Side: Ecomomic Freedom

Economic freedom creates opportunity, which less crime is committed due to voluntary exchange.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
3 points

This seems like a loaded question as the extremes of either could create more crime. It's like saying "What prevents crimes more effectively, telephone poles or socks?"

You want to prevent crime, prevent poverty and disenfranchisement of the population. If "economic freedom" means totally free market and "Police State" means the US then I would have to say "economic freedom" will lead to more crime. This is because I personally believe that totally free markets lead to poverty and disenfranchisement of most of the population.

Side: Police State
1 point

How is poverty prevented? Let me guess, your solution is redistribution. That doesn't prevent poverty, it creates poverty due to dependency

Hong Kong has the freest markets in the world, and it has acculmated great wealth in only 50 years.

Free markets have only proven it lifts people out of poverty.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
MrPrime(268) Disputed
2 points

How is poverty prevented? Let me guess, your solution is redistribution.

A bind paraplegic man has no way to earn a living and can only be supported through charity which is wealth redistribution.

Hong Kong has the freest markets in the world, and it has acculmated great wealth in only 50 years.

Hong Kong has poverty which is increasing along with income inequality.

Free markets have only proven it lifts people out of poverty.

You mean mixed markets right?

Side: Police State
1 point

In countries which are run as a succesful Police State crime is normally very low, although in a corrupt Police State the opposite is usually true. Myself i'd rather have freedom than any Police State.

Side: Police State
1 point

Well, crime rate has nothing to do with economics, but here are some facts:

• During the cold war, there was a lower crime rate in the Soviet Union than the US because laws were enforced better. People were not tried in fair courts, either. Anybody who broke a law was sent to a Gulag.

• North Korea, probably the most authoritarian state in the world, has virtually no crime. Anybody suspected of a crime is sent to a concentration camp.

• China and Iran also have lower crime rates than the US.

Side: Police State

More and more police on the street will help to prevent crime.

Side: Police State
0 points

Well managed will be more efficient than place full of armed rednecks. Police states has economy as well. Japan has much lower crime rate than most of countries on the world, highest lifespan on the world and all that without giving automatic weapon to any random people.

UK has incredibly complex surveillance system , people and most of police has no weapon and it's definitely safer place to live than US.

Your "Pseudo Freedom" costs 33 people lives every day.

Side: Police State
Scout143(652) Disputed
2 points

Yet women in the UK are two times more likely to be assaulted than in America.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
TheAshman(2299) Clarified
1 point

Please could you supply proof of this please as after a quick online search I can find nothing to support your claim

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

which weapon manufacturer sponsored that research?

?

Side: Police State
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

Is it just your stupid scream for more weapons for rednecks or you can actually supply some evidence?

Side: Police State
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
1 point

Police officers tend to be fully armed rednecks.

rarely do I meet fair-minded, reasonable police officers.

The difference between them and armed citizens? Armed citizens are not protected by the law of government.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom

Never thought police officers as armed rednecks, good observation.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
1 point

Your monitored on camera every day and have no means of defending yourself, that's "Pseudo Freedom"

Your authoritarian ideas have killed over a hundred million deaths, congrats.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
Banana_Slug(845) Disputed
1 point

You are an idiot. UK uses complex camera system. People knows that they will not hide if they do something wrong. Same it was with those riots. Rioters thought that they had ran away but two weeks later they heard a door bell and there was a police...

They just follow criminals camera by camera and they usually find them.

There's too many cameras to be watched in real time, so no one can spy on you.

Side: Police State

If drugs get legalized, crime rates would drop. However, the reason for this is that the police state governs the drug makers operations, reducing violence by monopolizing it, and therefore giving power to those organizations. People have defined economic freedom and negative liberty such that they are compatible with and arguably require a police state. Something I would consider the metaphysical hustle of the century.

Side: Police State
1 point

Wrong, all monopolies are the very definition of violence.

Side: Ecomomic Freedom
1 point

Yet right-libertarians don't see a problem with monopolies as long as they are formed free of coercion.

Side: Police State