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What would God think is worse?
Let's say we have 2 people who commit the same sin all the time. The first person convinces themselves that the sin is not that bad and decides that they won't ever repent, but they won't commit other sins. The second person repents every week claiming they are trying not to commit the sin any more and will try to be better. This person also avoids committing other sins. So, which is worse? The first person who never repents, or the second person who is lying about trying to be better.
"Empty" repenting is, never repenting so I pick both. The reason I believe this is because God's supposed to know all. In knowing all he knows you'll sin but doesn't care if you regret it, but will know if you don't actually regret it or not, and thus will not count you as repenting in the first place.
Doesn't that mean that never repenting is you giving yourself to God knowing you can't stop sinning, and emp[ty repenting is you separating yourself from God because you don't realize you will fail?
Never repenting key word never is knowing what you are doing against God's will and not asking for His forgiveness. Empty is you showing up and not actually acknowledging what as been done thinking that your walk with God can change without you giving God something to work with.
Never repenting key word never is knowing what you are doing against God's will and not asking for His forgiveness.
I thought it was bad to ask for forgiveness when you will continue.
Empty is you showing up and not actually acknowledging what as been done thinking that your walk with God can change without you giving God something to work with.
Can you ask to be forgiven in general for your sins or does it have to be the specific sin?
It's not bad to ask for forgiveness if you will actually do something about it to. Yes you can ask for forgiveness and no doesn't have to be a specific sin because in the eyes of God we all have sin but it's up to us if someone ask us is this and so and so is a sin to say yes it is and not dodge the question.
I honestly think both sides of this argument are wrong . God sees all bad things as equally bad . He sees murder as equal to hate , rape equal to gossip , the list goes on . God cannot stand sin so if it's bad it's bad , there is no " his bad is worse than my bad " . It's is all straight up bad .
I think you have made a mistake. I really hope you are wrong at least. There should really be some sort of scale to measure how bad things are. I think you are viewing it wrong though. Murder is not just murder. Murder is a progression of bad things that are equal that is combined together. If someone hates someone, then plans to kill them, then actually goes through with the murder they have done 3 bad things in 1. That is why murder would be worse than just hate.
Well considering the conversation is about God's standards and not ours he sees all bad things as equal , and about you other point about how murder involves multiple bad things it really doesn't matter either because by God's standards just doing one bad thing one time is bad enough
Why would any God view things that way? Can you at least answer that instead of rejected a much more reasonable concept? Why would God subscribe to the one strike and you are out policy?
God views things in such a way because he cannot stand any sin no matter how bad or not so bad humans view it . God subscribes to a one strike and your out because like I said , he cannot stand sin . And it isn't really a one strike your out policy , it's a one strike and you need Jesus policy .Also , why do you say God's standards being the same as ours is more reasonable ? James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point is guilty of all .
God views things in such a way because he cannot stand any sin no matter how bad or not so bad humans view it . God subscribes to a one strike and your out because like I said , he cannot stand sin . And it isn't really a one strike your out policy , it's a one strike and you need Jesus policy .
None of that is applicable to whether God believes murder and hate are the same. God has a zero strikes and you need Jesus policy. Just because you need Jesus doesn't mean that you are viewed equally by God to everyone else who needs Jesus. If God hates sin, why would He stop considering your sin the first time you commit a sin?
Also , why do you say God's standards being the same as ours is more reasonable ?
First, a system that looks at the bad things you do and evaluates them is more reasonable than one that doesn't since leaving out information is bad when determining something from your information. I didn't say our standards, though. I said a system where the number of bad things you do adds up to determine how bad you were. If God hates sin why wouldn't he view the 1 sin guy more favorably than the 3 sin guy? That's not how people view things.
Technically the bible says if you never sinned you would go to heaven with or without Jesus but since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God it's still a one strike and you need Jesus policy . I never said God stops considering your sin the first time you sin , I merely said he sees one sin as bad as another . He just keep count of our sin to show us how bad we really are and that we need Jesus ( whether or not you agree is a different debate ) , but that's why he keeps track of them even after we have sinned once . The evaluation system doesn't work for God because one sin is as bad a hundred to him because he cannot tolerate any sin no matter how big or little . He would not consider the one sin guy more favorable than the three sin guy because he can't tolerate any sin , they are both equally bad to him . Your right about how that isn't how people view things , but God isn't a person , he is an all powerful deity who views thing different because he is an all knowing being of ultimate power . Again , whether or not you agree with that is a different debate .
Technically the bible says if you never sinned you would go to heaven with or without Jesus but since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God it's still a one strike and you need Jesus policy .
Technically the Bible says their is original sin and it is a zero strike policy.
I never said God stops considering your sin the first time you sin , I merely said he sees one sin as bad as another .
No, you said that He sees one sin and that's all. I am the only one who said that He sees one sin as bad as another. You claim that God views 3 sins as bad as 1.
He just keep count of our sin to show us how bad we really are and that we need Jesus
I said that. Not you. I literally counted out the sins and you told me it was wrong.
The evaluation system doesn't work for God because one sin is as bad a hundred to him because he cannot tolerate any sin no matter how big or little .
Why is He keeping count then?
He would not consider the one sin guy more favorable than the three sin guy because he can't tolerate any sin , they are both equally bad to him .
You don't have to repent more if you commit more sins? Plus, we aren't talking about whether or not God treats the person different, we are discussing if God would consider the actions worse. And if He increases the sin counter, wouldn't that mean it is worse?
Your right about how that isn't how people view things , but God isn't a person , he is an all powerful deity who views thing different because he is an all knowing being of ultimate power .
So, if I present an idea that goes against what people believe it could fit would God is.
Again , whether or not you agree with that is a different debate .
I never said he sees one sin and that's all , I said he sees all sin as equal . And he does view one sin as bad as three because he cannot stand any sin whatsoever . Think about it , would you rather get shot in the foot once or three times . You would obviously pick neither , because you wouldn't want any bullets in your foot . You counted the sins but all I said was that they were equally bad , you also never said he keeps count of the sins to show us we need Jesus . I told you why he keeps counting them . But here is another reason why he counts them , on judgement day every man will stand in the court of God and those without him will have their life judged . The amount of sins is the evidence in that court . Again , he would not consider one worse than the other because just one sin can send you to Hell so it doesn't matter . In theory if you did present an idea that goes against what people believe it could if it lined up with the bible . If you don't believe in this "carp" then why bother arguing about the standards of a deity you don't believe or care about .
He sees all sins , he just sees them as equal . Would you not at least try to pick neither before you got shot in the foot ? God can see all sin as equal because he has unlimited power and cannot stand any sin . I told why he keeps track of them in my previous argument . Your last point about the beliefs of others affecting you is correct though .
Except according to you He doesn't. If a sin is committed with 9 other sins it is 1/10 of 1 sin. If a sin is committed with 99 others it is 1/100 of 1 sin. Not equal.
Would you not at least try to pick neither before you got shot in the foot ?
No, I would pick give me a billion dollars because there are no rules.
God can see all sin as equal because he has unlimited power and cannot stand any sin .
His power to stand sin is limited. ;)
I told why he keeps track of them in my previous argument .
You said He ignores the sin counter and sends you to hell no matter what. What is the point of an unused counter?
The person who repents every day and keeps doing it isn't really admitting fault. Actions speak louder than words. If you repent, but do it again, aren't you also lying about repenting?
Well, I highly doubt that the guy you keep nagging every day to forgive you over and over won't remember. But good luck with that. Oh, and you are making a terrible assumption that God is believing your lies.
My lies of course whatever I do God is there atop to bail me out and in the end if "HE" thinks to punish me,it would be in Hell surely not here;I've total confidence in Him so better follow my policy and tell white lies.
That is true for both scenarios. Never repenting just means that you don't find the same things wrong that God does. It doesn't mean you did anything that was really wrong.
If the second person was repenting, he was not lying...he was agreeing with God that his sin is wrong. If he was lying, and never really meant it when he told God it was wrong for him to do what he did, then he NEVER repented.
Both the first and second persons are the same since the author of the thread invented the second person as a liar and not a person who honestly repents but then fails to resist temptation and falls to the same sin again.
The second person is a habitual sinner, like an addict, alcoholic, or sodomite or masturbator. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they are hooked on the pleasure it gives them. One minute they are repenting and saying it's wrong, the next minute they are doing it again. Until they get to be fatally sick of their sin, they will continue to fall into it again.
If the second person is actually lying when he "repents" and never for a moment believes what he is doing is wrong, there is never a moment of repentance between episodes of enjoying the pleasures of the sin.
Ok, so you really believe the lies you want me to believe, and you hate God like a devil, is that better? It is not bad manners to tell the truth. People say all kinds of baseless things against me here, when I call you a name it is appropriate according to your own words. I'm addressing your attitude toward God and His people...it's not good. The names I have called you are appropriate and with purpose, hoping you will see you are in a losing battle fighting against God and that you will surrender, admit you have broken God's law and deserve His punishment, believe He paid your price as the Son of God and ask God in the name of the risen Savior, Jesus Christ, to save you from Hell and receive Him as your Savior before your dying is forever in Hell.
You'll just have to pardon me for calling you names. Atheists and evolutionist say the nastiest baseless off the wall things against Christians, they should be able to take it when they are told the truth about their sin.
That is true for both scenarios. Never repenting just means that you don't find the same things wrong that God does. It doesn't mean you did anything that was really wrong.
Unless the sin they keep repeating is lying, the person lying about not committing the sin again would be committing at least one more sin than the other person. If the sin is lying, then they would be equal, as all sins are sins against the Christian god.
That depends on what the heart thinks. If one truly believes they can change for the better, but keeps failing (while trying to change) I believe God will appreciate that.
That's beyond my knowledge, had you not included the part about lying I wouldn't have presented an argument. There is at least one denomination (Seventh Day Adventist), where I studied for a while, and they believe that the only unforgivable sin is to continuously commit a sin for which you are repetitively asking forgiveness. As far as other denominations, if you honestly believe that you won't do it again, repent, and for some reason are unable to stop the aforementioned sin... well I don't know.
I would imagine the standard Christian answer would be something like "If you are unable to stop repeating a sin, you must not have a personal relationship with Christ, and that is the definition of a Christian." On the other hand, a Calvinist would likely respond by saying "You're actions were predestined in order that God could demonstrate his perfect justice to his elect."
I think it depends on the sin he does. If the sin is like killing someone and he regret for what he does and he once decides not to do it and he does it again means its worse. Else if someone regrets on his bad habits, it takes some more time to get rid of it. So in this case God wont think its worse for his effort.
Because the second person is called a liar, that means their is NO repentance even if the second person says they are repenting, and for that reason both persons are the same and the following post is given for both sides of this debate.
(I really think this is nothing but an attempt to paint all Christians as worthless hypocrites so you can think you are better than them and you are too good to burn in Hell. This is framed as a trick question, just an attempt to insult Christians, and I will not post here again)
If the second person was repenting, he was not lying...he was agreeing with God that his sin is wrong. If he was lying, and never really meant it when he told God it was wrong for him to do what he did, then he NEVER repented.
Both the first and second persons are the same since the author of the thread invented the second person as a liar and not a person who honestly repents but then fails to resist temptation and falls to the same sin again.
The second person is a habitual sinner, like an addict, alcoholic, or sodomite or masturbator. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they are hooked on the pleasure it gives them. One minute they are repenting and saying it's wrong, the next minute they are doing it again. Until they get to be fatally sick of their sin, they will continue to fall into it again.
If the second person is actually lying when he "repents" and never for a moment believes what he is doing is wrong, there is never a moment of repentance between episodes of enjoying the pleasures of the sin.
The second person is a habitual sinner, like an addict, alcoholic, or sodomite or masturbator. They know what they are doing is wrong, but they are hooked on the pleasure it gives them. One minute they are repenting and saying it's wrong, the next minute they are doing it again. Until they get to be fatally sick of their sin, they will continue to fall into it again.
You have this completely backwards. The habitual sinners you mentioned don't think it is wrong. They never admit they have a problem. Otherwise, you wouldn't have to try to convince them that what they are doing is wrong.
The author first said the second person had repented. You can't repent without being honest. At the end, they said the second person was a liar, therefore the second person NEVER repented, and the AUTHOR is the liar for saying they repented before he said the second person was lying. They were either repenting or they were lying, you can't do both at the same time....you can't repent without being honest about what you did wrong.
I think both the first and the second person are equal in this scenario, and the Author of the debate is the same as them because the Author lied when he said the second person repented..they never repented because they were lying. To say they repented is a lie if they were lying and only pretending to repent.
The author feels that someone who continues falling for the temptation that they know is wrong is bad. The author sees no difference in someone who lies about repenting and someone who repents for real and does it again.
they author said they repented, then said they were lying. If they were lying, they were not repenting. You can't repent without being honest about your sin being wrong.
If the person was repenting and not lying but falling into a weakness for sin repeatedly, the difference between that person and the first person would be that the second person at least is honestly calling his actions evil while the first person does not care that he is doing evil.
This whole exercise is nothing but an attempt by ungodly people to justify their ungodliness by saying other people are more ungodly than they are so their ungodliness is ok...God says it's all evil and all worthy of death and eternal damnation in Hell. And God offers pardon and forgiveness based on the fact that He paid the price Himself with His own blood to save all the ungodly sinners in this example, the ones who think they are not too bad and the ones who know they are too bad but seem unable to stop being bad.
If the person was repenting and not lying but falling into a weakness for sin repeatedly, the difference between that person and the first person would be that the second person at least is honestly calling his actions evil while the first person does not care that he is doing evil.
This is actually false. Both the liar and the repenter are admitting that what they are doing is a sin. You have to recognize that it is a sin in order to lie about repenting.
by saying other people are more ungodly than they are so their ungodliness is ok
That is basic Christianity. You think you are ungodly, but since you repent you are better. Get off your high horse.
Just because you love your sin and will not repent of it does not mean others will not or cannot turn against their sin, count themselves dead to it, and leave it behind. You are only trying to make excuses for your own sin.
Hey fucktard. I find it strange that you let a few letters put together bother you so much. As if the word shit is worse than threatening someone with a punishment they don't deserve. I also find it strange that you think the word cock might be more disruptive to a discussion website than a guy who doesn't actually want to discuss things.
Did I reply to this? I wont' be reading any of your stuff, I'm sure you understand, God loves you and I hope you get saved from Hell before it's too late and you can never again believe God is good or that He loves you because in Hell there will be nothing to indicate that God cares for you
(From other topic) nope i dislike you. Nothing to do with God. The christian god is very nice. You just give yourself a tug over him while crying sorry sorry sorry on Sunday and then you can treat everyone like shit just like you do. Thank you for being a great example Sunday Christian.
I told you I'm going to ban you for being rude, foul mouth, crying and whining, being disruptive, being cranky, being a proud brave fool who thinks he has the right to exist as a sinner outside of Hell hating me for telling him the truth....
why should you be surprised? Why don't you put your rants on tape and play them for yourself and see if you can make yourself sick with your own dirty mind and mouth.......it's not working on me, I'm enjoying the time serving God trying to find people who care where they are going when they leave this world. you don't care so why should I let you bother me? What are you gonna do, son, crucify me? Jesus took it, I can take it......you don't know what you are doing, I hold nothing against you. Carry on, son.
What are you gonna do, son, crucify me? Jesus took it, I can take it......
This was the final nail in your coffin for me. You have compared your treatment on her to the suffering of your messiah. Your pride is astounding. Youre just a sunday christian with a problem with obsession. You dont have a clue.
Thank you, it's the thought that counts, thank you for putting the final nail in my coffin, now I can rest in peace since you've killed me and nailed my coffin shut. Byebye. I thought you were going to crucify me, nice to know you decided to nail my coffin shut and let me suffocate. Now you can leave me alone, thanks!!!!
Nah I wont be leaving you alone. Its fake Christians like you that gives Christianity a bad name. Youre a bully with an ego problem and I will enjoy to keep pointing that out.
whatever makes you feel good is best I guess. I certainly don't want you to be unhappy now because things will only get worse if you are not saved before your dying is finalized.
Trust me. If people identify you as a bad christian it will improve peoples views on here about Christianity. Proud assholes like you are not typical fortunately.
I would not trust you for nothing, the way you talk and act. The only thing I would trust you for is as you said, to put the last nail in my coffin......because if my body is deceased, I won't care if you nail the coffin or not, hater
Well then engage your brain and come to your own conclusion. If an arsehole like you is associated with Christianity what impression do people have of Christianity and how likely are they to move towards rsther than asay from Christ?
Did it ever occur to you that if facts being presented means your beliefs are being bullied that your beliefs might just be wrong. That's what we do in school. Present facts.
Haha. About 50% of your Bible, to make any senss of it all, has to be interpreted as a metaphor. Are you saying you dont understand what a metaphor is?? Okay Sunday Christian maybe ask your pastor.
everything is 95 percent empty space, fool. I thought you knew something about science or I would have explained that to you when I pointed out the FACT that your brain is 95 percent empty space.
Your brain is "far more", and not only "more", than 95 percent empty space? Ok, so your brain is one hundred and ninety five percent empty space. I hope you are happy now. You win.
I always find it funny trying to explain that to him. You tell him he is being a bad person and he responds that you dislike God. He thinks he is God and we have the problem? It's so crazy.
You aren't here to debate people. You are hear to preach. If the people you refuse to hear, also refuse to hear you, you ban them. "Let those with ears to hear, hear"...Not you though, you only preach petty pseudo-god garbage.
I noticed, you assume whomever you are talking to is hell bound rather than saved. Your first assumption is that the person you are talking to sucks and you don't.
I tried doing to you what you do to everyone else. I tried to explain to you why you are going to hell. I tried to explain that your beliefs are in fact Satanic and you should turn away from them. YOU wouldn't listen though. Even though I know the facts and I am trying to help you, YOU only carry on about how you know the facts. Entirely closed off to truth and reason.
How can I pretend you are whining when you are whining? Maybe if you stop whining, I can pretend that you are whining. If you try to stop whining, I'll try to pretend that you are whining, ok? If you have a problem with this request, please don't whine about it.
Well God loves you and if you repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you will be saved from burning in Hell forever, frying like an eternal sausage.
sounds like you dislike everybody or you would be trying to tell them how they can know their sins are forgiven and they are going to heaven, instead of sitting here whining and pouting with me.
How can you be pouty and not whiney? I thought pouting generally follows whining, and you sure sound to me like you are whining. No wonder you have trouble liking me, you have trouble being honest,
I hear you, and you sound like you are whining. I can't see you, but I imagine you look like you are pouting. Cheer up, man, God loves you and so do I. It's ok.
You do not put up a reasonable discussion, you insist you have the right to exist outside of Hell and God cannot blame you for being a sinner and you do not deserve to die....you keep preaching that same mantra with no good reason for yourself or me to believe it and you only preach it because you want God to leave you in the name of Hell alone, and because He loves you He will give you the desires of your heart and leave you in Hell alone if you keep asking for it. You are asking for it and when you get it you got what you asked for and who are you going to blame?
I don't know what you are talking about.......and don't bother trying to explain, I won't try to understand. You don't care if you end up in Hell, so why should I stand here and watch you struggle?
It is funny that you don't realize that you admitting you don't understand and don't want to understand goes completely against half of your complaints of other people. The real question is why should I pay attention to someone who is struggling add much as you?
No wonder you ban people for going off topic. You can't read. I am sorry I insulted someone who can't read. Now that we know you can't read, you should let people know before they engage in a debate with you. I think they will be understanding and work with you at a pace that you can understand. Are you going to adult reading classes? If you showed an effort to learn to read we wouldn't give you such a hard time.
most, or at least a large percentage of, addicts (which are simply habitual sinners with a pet sin they enjoy) will admit that what they are doing is wrong because they know it's not good. A cycle of shame and seeking relief from that shame drives them into repeating their sin, and then feeling bad about it, then doing it again so maybe the pleasure of it will make them feel better, then feeling ashamed.....
The more difficult addictions are mental addictions by which a person makes themselves feel good by telling themselves that they are good for all the good things they do and say and feel...pure pride desiring to stand without and in defiance of God, making themselves believe they can jump off of a building and fly into eternity forever free from Hell's fire.
OOOPS, said I wouldn't post here again...I'll try to remember this time. Really I just got happy about giving Cartman another down vote.
will admit that what they are doing is wrong because they know it's not good.
They do not admit it is wrong until they are ready to stop.
A cycle of shame and seeking relief from that shame drives them into repeating their sin
You don't know anything about addicts.
The more difficult addictions are mental addictions by which a person makes themselves feel good by telling themselves that they are good for all the good things they do and say and feel
This sounds like religious people.
pure pride desiring to stand without and in defiance of God
Haha, you have it backwards. That's awesome.
making themselves believe they can jump off of a building and fly into eternity forever free from Hell's fire.
Yeah, no one believes that.
OOOPS, said I wouldn't post here again...I'll try to remember this time.
It wouldn't be your first lie.
Really I just got happy about giving Cartman another down vote.
At least you responded and downvoted. Congratulations.
Never repenting is wrong! Because you have allowed yourself to become ignorant to the fact that you are sinning in God's eyes. Especially when the sin is so blatantly bad, eg murdering. However empty repenting, is mocking God. Because you sin, repent and then commit the same thing over and over again. But as was previously said, God knows the heart. If you repent, then the next time your are tempted you are supposed to try and resist because Christ has given you the power to overcome temptation. If you really are trying to resist but fall into it again, God will understand. But if you sin, and then the next day you think to yourself, oh I'll just commit the sin again because God will forgive me anyways. Then you are wrong and you are taking God for a mug.
I don't know, because unlike many on this site I don't claim to think or speak for God.
It depends on the severity of the sin being repeated, as well as the mental health and maturity of the person sinning. But basically, if you're an insincere ahole and keep committing the same offense while claiming you don't then I'd expect that's a much worse infraction then doing the wrong thing once and then the right thing thereafter.
Both of these guys are sinners in the eyes of the Lord, but the one doing the empty repenting has sinned worse.
with the Lord, and with Sin, it's all about Intent. Somebody who is ignorant of the Lord and His Will and the chance of Salvation is forgiven in the eyes of God. Indeed, in this case, Ignorance is a sort of Bliss!
But its the person who KNOWS what God's Will is, and who denies the Holy Spirit, and who basically mocks his practice of repentance and Salvation who is the worse off insofar as his relationship with God is concerned.
Jesus once told us that that the worst sin and the one that He cannot ever forgive is the Denial of the Holy Spirit. Well, the serial repenter in this scenario is doing just that. He is basically mocking the Holy Spirit.
this scenario about serial repenting reminds me of Catholics and their confessions. And the ones that go out and do it again and think they can wipe the slate clean every week when they go see Father O'Reilly and confess. make no mistake, these people are no cleaner in the eyes of God than the man who knows not the Lord and lives a life of sin.
