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Debate Info

19
13
It's a tradeoff Collateral damage
Debate Score:32
Arguments:48
Total Votes:35
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Argument Ratio

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 It's a tradeoff (16)
 
 Collateral damage (12)

Debate Creator

BaloneyHead(194) pic



While you demand the shutdown 3 times as many women are now being killed by men

It's a tradeoff

Side Score: 19
VS.

Collateral damage

Side Score: 13

It talks about an increase of 9 people, and I think it is safe to assume that some of those are deaths that likely would have happened later in the year even with no shutdown. We would have to wait for yearly numbers to have better information. It certainly doesn't compare with the number of people dying from COVID.

Side: It's a tradeoff
Jace(5220) Clarified
1 point

I think you are correct that we have incomplete information right now, and even down the road it would be difficult to establish causation (it's almost always down to strength of correlation on stuff like this).

That being said, though, it seems like a reasonable conclusion to suppose that the shutdown will lead to increased domestic violence (fatal or otherwise). The shutdown means that: (a) abusive people are likely to be placed under more stress, which they are already prone to expressing through violence towards others; (b) abusive people and the family they abuse are spending considerably more time together than they otherwise would; and (c) people who are being abused are more vulnerable in that they have fewer places they can go and even less means to do so.

I don't think this alone is a reason to lift the shutdown or relax restrictions. However, I think this issue taken in conjunction with others does raise a substantive challenge to sustaining the shutdown. The costs to lifting the shutdown are obvious, highly publicized, and easy to articulate. By contrast, the costs to sustaining it are less obvious, not generally publicized, and more difficult to articulate. That does not mean that costs of sustaining the shutdown do not outweigh the costs of lifting it.

Side: It's a tradeoff
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
1 point

While it is true that some mortality factors will increase - it is also true that others will decrease.

How many deaths will be avoided due to work-related stress, workplace accidents, vehicle accidents during commute, etc.? e.g.

On balance, it seems pretty clear that overall deaths will be reduced by sustaining - though your other posts are right to point out that deaths are not the only factor to consider - economy, quality of life, etc.

Side: It's a tradeoff

While you demand the shutdown 3 times as many women are now being killed by men

That isn't what the story says you infantile, lying child. The story says domestic violence is up by three times. It does not say that three times as many women are being killed or that all of the victims are women.

Bronto, I have never, in all of my life, ever encountered such a thorough waste of energy.

Side: Collateral damage
1 point

So what you're taking from this is that those women being murdered is the fault of the shutdown and not the fault of the men?

Side: Collateral damage
BaloneyHead(194) Disputed
2 points

So what you're taking from this is that those women being murdered is the fault of the shutdown and not the fault of the men?

That they wouldn't be in lockdown with unstable men to be murdered in the first place.

Side: It's a tradeoff
1 point

That they wouldn't be in lockdown with unstable men to be murdered in the first place.

Lol. Right Bronto. And they wouldn't have been murdered if there was no taco bar for them to meet in and fall in love. So let's blame taco bars while we are at it, you pathetic Nazi rodent.

Side: Collateral damage
Mint_tea(4647) Disputed
1 point

Ah I see, so it's their fault they were murdered. Blast those cunning women. Forcing those men to murder them like that in the midst of a terrible pandemic.

Side: Collateral damage
Jace(5220) Disputed
0 points

Acknowleding that the shutdown contributes to domestic violence does not absolve abusive people of guilt. Such an awareness is in fact integral to identifying the problem and addressing it as a public health concern in its own right.

Side: It's a tradeoff
Chinaman(3005) Clarified
1 point

What are you Socialist to do when you are under the Government Control you want ?

Side: It's a tradeoff
1 point

Acknowleding that the shutdown contributes to domestic violence

You're an idiot. Shutting the shops doesn't make you beat your family. You can't blame external circumstances for your own decision to be violent. That's absolutely ridiculous. If we could do that then nobody would ever go to prison.

Side: Collateral damage
Mint_tea(4647) Disputed
1 point

The problem isn't the shutdown. If violence is in the heart of the person then it's just a convenient excuse. If you are getting sick of the person you are stuck at home with there are alternatives in leaving as opposed to beating and killing.

Side: Collateral damage