CreateDebate


Debate Info

161
148
Liberals Conservatives
Debate Score:309
Arguments:110
Total Votes:515
More Stats

Argument Ratio

side graph
 
 Liberals (52)
 
 Conservatives (58)

Debate Creator

JakeJ(3255) pic



Who's more patriotic?

Liberals

Side Score: 161
VS.

Conservatives

Side Score: 148
5 points

In response to 99% of the arguements on the other side all worded slightly different - evidence like "Conservatives own more American flag shirts" doesn't hold water.

The problem with both sides with due respect, is that we're arguing from two different frames of mind.

Conservatives believe that patriotism has more to do with a thing.

Liberals believe that patriotism has more to do with an idea.

That being the case, Liberals tend to question government more on things like wars, which appears to Conservatives to be unpatriotic.

Liberals like the idea of helping everyone who's sick.

Conservatives see more government programs and get scared.

Liberals like the idea that in the country with the most food/ capita, no one should ever starve.

Conservatives see lazy people... and get scared.

Liberals see statistics that say more guns in the hands of more people = more dead people, and so want better gun control.

Conservatives see robbers under their bed, get scared and buy a gun. Then think anyone not scared of robbers under their bed is unpatriotic.

Liberals see historical factual statistics that say outlawing abortion doesn't stop a single abortion, only drives them into dirty basements where mothers die.

Conservatives only see a big invisible dude in the sky ready to throw lightning at them...

So yeah, the Bush era Conservative is under the dillusion they're patriotic, really though, it's basically the opposite of what our forefathers intended our nation to be.

Side: Liberals
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
0 points

"Liberals like the idea that in the country with the most food/ capita, no one should ever starve.

Conservatives see lazy people... and get scared."

Conservatives like that idea to, and there is no excuse as to why anyone can't make enough money not to starve. This is America. If you work hard enough you can make enough money not to starve, and then some! How do you think we got to be the country with the most food/capita? Through hard work.

Conservatives take advantage of the country they live in. ( :

Liberals see hard work.... .. . and get scared. D:

Side: Conservatives

"Liberals see hard work...and get scared. D:"

Haha nice. However, I do know some very hard-working liberals, but that was funny.

Side: Conservatives
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

Good one. Should have seen that coming.

The problem is though, with the "anyone can make enough money not to starve." Is that it's not true.

Most homeless people are Vietnam vets (and an increasing number vets from more recent wars) who through service to our country kind of "lost it" for lack of a better term. And we as a nation have tragically failed this segment of our society.

And there are also children not even old enough to work, who fall through the cracks. More should be done to stop this from happening.

You can't rely on individual good will to save these people. Obviously or there wouldn't be a problem.

You need social programs for these kinds of issues.

Which Conservatives are usually against.

On another note, notice I specified "Bush era Conservatives."

Side: Liberals
mister253(10) Disputed
0 points

Liberals do not question wars very well obviously.

WWI Woodrow Wilson Democrat

WWII FDR Democrat

Korea Harry Truman Democrat

Vietnam Lyndon Johnson Democrat

Persian Gulf 1 George Bush Republican

Persian Gulf 2 Bill Clinton Democrat

Iraq/Afghan George Bush Republican

The world wars were democrat presidents however party would not have mattered.

Korea, Vietnam, and the 3 middle east wars looks like 3 democrats and 2 republicans now I will even take the 2 Persian Gulf wars off the table and we are still left with 3 wars.

Korea, Vietnam both democrats and 2 very bad wars. VIETNAM being the worst.

Iraq is compared to Vietnam but not one death in Iraq was from an involuntary soldier. Vietnam most deaths were unvoluntary soldier deaths.

Paint the picture to whatever liking you want but facts will still show the true picture.

Side: Conservatives
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

... and you missed the point completely.

Questioning one's government's reason for going to war does not equal not going to war.

Like if I ask "why should one plus one equal two?" does not mean that one plus one should not equal two...

I know that's very confusing...

I would argue that both WWI and II were very noble causes, and we faught on the right side.

I would not scream bloody terrorist at anyone who dared question our government however,

Which is the difference I tried (vainly apparently) to explain.

Side: Liberals
s0m3b0dy(41) Disputed
-1 points

that dosent make sense.

Side: Conservatives

Liberals don't accuse large groups of people of being unpatriotic in order to garner support.

Side: Liberals
2 points

They accuse the republicans, conservatives, & anybody else who doesn't agree with them.

Side: Conservatives
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
-1 points

Liberals accuse large groups of people of being patriotic. What's worse?

Side: Conservatives
5 points

Since when did being Patriotic become an accusation? You drinking that hula-whoop-whoop juice again or what?

Side: Liberals
3 points

Jake have you even ever really met a "liberal"? I feel like you're a little out of touch.

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
-2 points
2 points

Liberals help poor and opressed people and have given women,african americans and the poor the same rights as the rich.

Side: Liberals
jtopolnak(158) Disputed
1 point

That's called socialism so people who work hard and go to school whether they are rich or poor should give others who don't work hard their money? Yeah that's fair if that what its about then i want to stop work right now and receive those benefits. Your theory doesn't work it only makes the poorer poor and only expect hands out and makes people lazy.

Side: Conservatives
1 point

patriotism - love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it; "they rode the same wave of popular patriotism"; "British nationalism was in the air and patriotic sentiments ran high"

Theres the definition. I would say Liberals are more willing to sacrifice for the country, because we are attempting to bring home our soldiers who are fighting a pointless war in Iraq, which wasn't a threat to us in the first place.

Side: Liberals
1 point

Liberals are tree hugging pacifists who are against fighting our enemies.

They think we can just talk to our enemies & change their minds.

Side: Conservatives
1 point

It is by the very definition of liberalism that a liberal is more patriotic than a conservative:

Where a conservative is unwilling to change from the status quo, to "preserve" a a country, a liberal is willing to make radical change- to do what is necessary.

Where a conservative is unwilling to do anything that might contradict so-called "traditional values," a liberal is unconcerned with that, so long as nobody's rights are violated.

Where a conservative is unwilling to help those who are downtrodden, the liberal is willing (and, hopefully, so are his or her constituency) to spend money to help.

That's why liberals are more patriotic.

Side: Liberals

More patriotic is difficult because one really understand patriotic means. Who knows. There are definition for patriotic but who is to say who is more patriotic, conservatives or liberals. I pick Liberal only because I am liberal.

Side: Liberals

If it were not for the Liberals, this country would still be under the British flag.

Side: Liberals
0 points

It depends on what you mean by "patriotic."

If you mean by someone that mindlessly waves a flag and can't for the life of him see anything wrong with anything the country has ever done, then conservatives, certainly.

If you mean someone that values freedom for everyone, honors their ancestors who found, bled, and died to create that freedom, cares deeply about not squandering the nation's security by not frittering away it's wealth in no-bid contracts and 'rescuing' fat-cat, well-connected donors on Wall Street, sending untold billions to useless defense contractors, defending the nation's integrity on the world stage, that kind of thing ... then it's hands down, liberals.

"Conservatives" - continue to worry yourselves with the pressing matters like the "war on Christmas," gay marriage, standing firm in your opposition to helping stave off a depression. We, the adults, the liberals, will work around you and do what needs to be done to save the country. Wave the flag all you would like. As if it even mattered. We'll take care of the financial crisis you made, the torture doctrine you created, the wars you started, the wasting away of the nation's wealth by concentrating it in the hands of a privileged few; we'll try our best to restore the freedoms you frittered away. Keep waging against "happy holidays" and the other straw men that so thoroughly occupy your time. We'll put out the fire.

Side: Liberals
-2 points
-2 points
2 points

Well now, LindseyKinns, this debate happens to be about Patriotism and not morals. I take offense at your accusation of Liberals having NO morals. I am a Democrat and therefore immediately thrown into the Liberal category! You are a Republican and automatically thrown into the Conservative category. Who knows? You may very well be a person with morals but to label an entire sector of society immoral makes no sense and is not to be believed or taken seriously. You've made the statement, now back it up with fact, if you please.

Side: Both
3 points

We are more patriotic than liberals because we focus on the positive strength of america. We are are proud of our country for what it is and what it has been.

Side: Conservatives
xaeon(1095) Disputed Banned
2 points

Yeah. I happen to find political segregation for the means of patriotic one-upmanship against your fellow countrymen extremely patriotic. Good show sir.

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
2 points

Just look at the our president right now apologizes to other countries for us. When was the last time any president has ever done this. Liberals always have been less patriotic I can recall liberal rallies burning the flag I can't even think of one Conservative rally that has ever done this.

Side: Conservatives
vassilgl(55) Disputed
2 points

Patriotism is not blindly following what your government tells you because you've been brain washed into thinking that your government is some kind of infallible god. Patriotism is sticking to your guns and fighting to make your country what you want it to be. What you are talking about is indoctrination, not patriotism.

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

I agree with all of that except for the lat sentence. ..............................

Side: Conservatives
politico(75) Disputed
0 points

I am sorry for what I am saying, but conservatives are to blame for A) everyone else hating us, and B) over 4,000 American troop deaths and close to a million (or more?) Iraqi deaths since 2003.

I don't think there is much to be proud of the past 8 years...

Side: Liberals
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
6 points

I'm sorry for what you said to,

1.) everyone does not hate us, that is a very general and false statement

2.)Do you think we should be fighting terrorism? Because conservatives are not the only ones who voted to go to war

3.) It doesn't sound like you even want to be proud of anything, bitterness and a pessimistic attitude wont help anything

Side: Conservatives
pvtNobody(645) Disputed
2 points

What's the point of saying something if you're just going to apologize for it. Either support your arguments or don't bother.

Side: Conservatives
mudkipz2(360) Disputed
1 point

are you serious? cause a war with 4000 deaths, we are to blame? let me remind you that the liberal party who supported slavery which ultimately became the rally point for conservative men in the north to fight for .so since liberals who were mainly on the pro side of slavery of the war, should they be blamed for the casualties? those causalities number a total of 360,222, way more then the Iraq deaths. i would not tie an ideology with a war, but since you blamed conservative with the Iraq war, should i blame liberals with the civil war?

Side: Conservatives
s0m3b0dy(41) Disputed
0 points

we woudnt be in a war if Clinton had killed Osama

Side: Conservatives
0 points

There is absolutely no difference between the patriotism of liberals or conservatives, Democrats or Republicans and any other group of people who hang their hats on another hook in the cloak room of America! You confuse patriotism with the politics of individuals and that simply doesn't fly. The definition of Patriotism, according to Merriam-Webster is the "love for and devotion to one's country."

I'll take the liberty of amending your statement to reflect my thoughts and feelings about America.

I am proud to be an American but am not always proud of the things my country does. Through these 232 years America has been the torchbearer of freedoms and liberties unknown in other parts of the world. We have also been shameless in the treatment of our own brothers and sisters in this very land. I stand ashamed in their presence. I will strive to do the very best I can, as a citizen of this country, to help re-build the American way of life as outlined by our forebears so that one day, I will again be proud of my nation and its standing on the world stage. We can always do better than we have in the past. May we find the strength to make our dream a reality and,once again, revel in what this country can and will be.

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
2 points

Somehow this has turned into a "who's better" or "right" when it comes to political ideology. That is really an entirely different topic. Neither party if inherently more patriotic in my opinion. That being said, many people who are liberals have made very unpatriotic statements and vehemently attacked the U.S., often in a way that tries to stir up public sentiment against us in foreign countries. Trying to work to change something you like is not unpatriotic, attacking the country, making absurd conspiracy claims without proof, and trying to lower public opinion about the US are. Unfortunately, I have not seen any conservatives doing these things. I can name dozens of liberals who are doing just that.

It shouldn't be that way; it doesn't have to be that way; and liberals in general are not unpatriotic. But there are some very unpatriotic liberals.

"for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country" ... just made me sad...

Oh, and I have also traveled all around the Americas and Europe, and people are better off, the poor have MUCH more, there is much more freedom, women, blacks and minorities have more opportunities, and all in all things are pretty good. We are perfectionists however and see what we still do poorly. This is good, but lets not forget the great things we have done.

Side: Conservatives
2 points

Neither are very patriotic. I consider patriotism to be not only an undying love of one's country, but an unwavering adherence to its traditions. Higher taxes, more regulation, more government control are not tradition and they're not patriotic. However, on the Conservative side, warmongering, abuse of power, abrasion of civil liberties, and corporate backroom dealing is not patriotic either.

Both sides have a lot to learn about who we are as a country and as a people. Both sides have strayed in different ways but both are of the opinion that government knows best and that is decidedly un-American.

Side: Conservatives
1 point

Well it depends on what exactly you mean by patriotism, but I think it's fair to say that conservatives are generally the more patriotic.

I think it's mainly because conservatives see the world as more competitive while liberals see the world as more cooperative. Flag waving and what have you is good in a competitive environment because it promotes a sense of unity -- it pulls the team together as one. These things are not so good in a cooperative environment because they exclude and separate people into groups -- creating an us vs. them mentality.

Side: Conservatives
1 point

You can look at this from different points of views.

1. Conservatives are usually the guys with the "God Bless America" t-shirts and hats... bumper stickers... shit like that. i've never seen a liberal wear a "support our troops" shirt. it's not that liberals AREN'T patriots, it's that Patriotism isn't much of a concern for them.

2. Liberals actually make fun of how Conservatives love America (Colbert Report, American Dad). They think talking about how much you love America is a joke.

i think both love their country, but Conservatives definitely prove to be the more patriotic.

Side: Conservatives
2 points

Because putting a bumper sticker on your car is the true sign of patriotism...riiiiight

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
Republican08(87) Disputed
3 points

Well if you have a bumper sticker that says "God Bless America" then obviously you love America...riiiight

Side: Conservatives
JakeJ(3255) Disputed
1 point

Well not exactly, but let me tell you about an observation that I made.

I see a lot of cars, a lot of them have American flag bumper stickers. A lot of them have Obama stickers. But never on the same car, never. Curious.

Now I'm not saying that to be patriotic you have to have a freaking sticker, we both know thats ridiculous. But I just think it is interesting.

Side: Conservatives
ThePyg(6738) Disputed
0 points

not exactly, but they're not afraid of expressing their love for their country. it shows that it's their NUMBER ONE concern.

Side: Conservatives
0 points

I have to up vote you here....

Great point!!!!

Side: Conservatives
1 point

Well, the score is now 19 to 21 and there are no arguments onthe liberal side. Interesting.

Side: Conservatives

I am not sure why the liberal side is winning. Conservatives look at the positives of America, while conservatives the negative.

When you see someone sitting for the national anthem or burning a flag, ask them if they are a con or lib. I'd be interested in that response: I bet ithey'd be liberal.

Side: Conservatives
5 points

I don't agree with your thought that Conservatives look at the positives of America, while Liberals (I believe that is what you meant to say!) the negative, Republican08. I believe that liberals see both clearly and we are also ready to see and admit to the negatives.

As a liberal, when I see someone sitting out the National Anthem, it makes me just as sick as burning an American flag. When I've been at a ball game or other place where the National anthem is played, I've been known to bring sitting down to their attention. They do get up about 80% of the time.

Side: Liberals
Republican08(87) Disputed
2 points

How is it possible to say that liberals do not focus more on the negative side?

It was Barack Obama (a.k.a. "The Savior") that told a little girl that America isn't like it once was. I heard McCain saying that we can make America what it once was! There is a big difference, and it is time we start to see that.

Side: Conservatives
3 points

Don't judge an entire group based on a select few members. How about this group that Palin supported?

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/aip_founder_professed_hatred_f.php

Conservatives look at the positives of America, while liberals the negative (I fixed your typo, to what you meant)

I think what you mean is that conservatives accept the status quo while liberals look to see how we can improve the country. Liberals helped make our country better by extending rights to minority groups. Conservatives? They thought blacks should get to the back of the bus.

But ignoring the historic actions of both groups, politics don't have any bearing on your love of country. Patriotism is a separate issue and shouldn't be assigned to only Liberals or Conservatives.

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
1 point

Let's compare the two sides. Liberals are about forcing - they think by taxing and by forcing people to spread their hard earned wealth is "patriotic" when in fact paying taxes is a requirement. Conservatives are more patriotic because they want to cut taxes so people can be patriotic and donate... which is an option.

Side: Conservatives
2 points

In the history of the U.S. name one person who has donated money to the government. The closest thing I can think of is war bonds, but people got that money back.

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
1 point

It's hard to say one is more patriotic the other. I was in the military and was with liberals, conservatives, socialists and others and they were all pretty patriotic.

Patriotism is not defined by a party but by the love you have for your country. I am conservative to most people but believe in liberal ideas as long as it benefits AMERICA not individual americans.

If you do nothing for this country but complain and ask for hand outs and do not support the people who have made it possible for you to be here and have the freedoms we have, well then you are not patriotic no matter who you voted for. If you burn the American flag in protest, you are not patriotic.

Patriotism does not mean you are for or against WAR, ABORTION, HOMOSEXUALS, DEMOCRAT or REPUBLICAN. It means you love, respect and honor your country.

So if you LOVE, RESPECT and HONOR your country you are PATRIOTIC no matter who you vote for or where you live.

Side: politics does not equal patriotism

Liberals are anti-American socialists. They support all our enemies & want to do the worst for our country.

Side: Conservatives
1 point

The pie chart goes to show how Liberal leaning the CreateDebate crowd is, and also how fickle the American public opinion is and how short memory is. People are just reacting to the last President in office. Yes, Congress was dominantly Democrat, but most people don't see it that way because they can only focus on one person- the President. So the politicians take advantage of the stupid voters and play up the party politics to try to win the votes of the day. People eat it up like rat poison fed to pigeons in the park, they love every bit of it.

Side: Conservatives
1 point

liberals?!?!?!?!??! how could this be. maybe they could be considered patriotic to the government since they support big government. but a Conservative is patriotic to its nation, it knows that the average person wants to have their freedom and liberates. a Conservative fights to wars, one is against people trying to destroy American values and ways, and the second is against a too powerful gov that wants more and more control. and as far as I'm concerned, a person patriotic to the nation's people then the nation's government is was i look for patriotic wise.

Side: Conservatives
0 points

If everyone truly hates us, why do they all coming running to us when a natural disaster strikes? Why do they send their children to our universities and colleges? Why do they nearly drown themselves trying to cross bodies of water to get here?

I have traveled extensively abroad, and many are in awe of the U.S. - our freedoms, our sense of humor, our love of life, our freedom to debate, our freedom to self-education. If you see hate, it's most likely envy.

Liberals aren't unpatriotic, just misguided. Communists and socialists are unpatriotic.

Liberals aren't unpatriotic, they are just less patriotic. When was the last time a conservative went abroad and started bashing the U.S. Now, on the liberal side, let's remember the Dixie Chicks, shall we? Or Madonna? How about Alec Baldwin, he was ready to abandon his country because Bush won. Did Chuck Norris promise to leave the US if Obama won?

Again, not that liberals completely lack patriotism, they tend to engage in more misguided behaviors.

As we shall all see after about 6 months of Obama's administration. That man is in way, way, way, way over his head.

And, his wife, she'll make Hillary look like Betsy Ross.

But, I digress....

Side: Conservatives
3 points

You must have traveled in your dreams...because most countries detest us and it has nothing to do with envy! It has everything to do with our butting our nose in where it doesn't belong...in other peoples business! Natural disasters, hmmm yes, it must be because we've done such a terrific job with Katrina and such! Colleges and Universities...yes, those that are of some means do send their children here to Ivy League schools but the fact of the matter is, the Euro high school education is still equivalent to one to two years of college here. Crossing bodies of water! I suspect you're talking about Cubans and their 90 mile trip in a rowboat!

Liberals are not misguided, we're just intelligent enough to ask the right questions. We're no less patriotic than conservatives, in fact and in many ways we are more patriotic. What have The Dixie Chicks, Madonna, Chuck Norris or Alec Baldwin to do with anything here? I believe that everyone you listed with the exception of Chuck Norris was talking about George Bush's America and good for them. They spoke out!

It pains me to know what you are teaching your children since you home school them. It must be great fun brainwashing small minds with your mindset and to not teach them to be open minded and fair. I have not yet seen you write anything where you didn't think you were absolutely on the money. There are simply no gray areas where you live.

In six months to a year you'll eat every word you've spoken about Obama...and what does his wife have to do with anything? More power to her if she, like Hillary Clinton, can help her husband navigate through the mess you conservatives put us in over these last 8 long years!

Side: Liberals
-1 points

You nailed it, thanks (:

Side: Conservatives
0 points

If you watch TV, read the newspaper, or search the internet, you've seen it's conservatives. There are always stories of leftist groups burning flags, shouting swears at Bush, wearing offensive t-shirts, and, of course, displaying hateful bumper stickers.

Conservatives have been the ones standing up for America. Conservatives want America to win in Iraq. It was at John McCain and Sarah Palin's rallies that the people were chanting "USA! USA!" and the leftist groups wearing pink that were storming the RNC, only to hear chants of "USA!" from the conservative crowd.

Clearly the Conservatives are the ones who love America through the thick and thin.

Side: Conservatives
2 points

....as well as through lunacy and lies! Too bad the reporter didn't have three feet...I'm sure the next shoe would have nailed the Texan!

Side: Liberals
Republican08(87) Disputed
1 point

What? Nailed the Texan? I am not a Texan. I am an Illinois Republican and proud of it. The IL GOP is in a fight with Blagojevich and the Dems right now and were putting up a fight against the majority to get a special election.

Side: Conservatives
0 points

Liberals are always trying to change change change. Shouldn;t you love America the WAY IT IS?!

Side: Conservatives
Vaylkon(2) Disputed
2 points

Are you insane?

Imagine if America was run by fascists.

Would you want to live there?

Imagine if America was run by people who you didn't like.

Would you want to change that?

Liberals want to change because they think things are wrong.

They're THINKING about the situation rather than ACCEPTING what's given to them, blindly.

Side: Liberals
-2 points
1 point

Can you back those statements up please? Perhaps you can enlighten us as to why you would think that conservatives have a more patriotic view and that many Veterans are Conservatives. How many are many?

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
-3 points
1 point

YOU haven't said anything yet! What is it that you're arguing?

Side: politics does not equal patriotism
repubgal(336) Disputed
0 points

HUH????

What in the world does that mean??

Side: Conservatives