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Debate Info

63
72
McCain Obama
Debate Score:135
Arguments:60
Total Votes:190
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 McCain (32)
 
 Obama (28)

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Whose tax plan is better?

Economic growth vs redistributionism

"For all their similarities, the two plans have important distinctions. The most important is that McCain's tax proposals emphasize job creation and raising wages....Obama's tax proposals exemplify his view that redistributing income among citizens is more important than increasing their earnings and creating jobs."


McCain

Side Score: 63
VS.

Obama

Side Score: 72
4 points

Corporations control the things we buy. When corporations get taxed, they pass it on to the consumers by raising the prices of their items. it's actually simple economics...

Now, you can go Carl Marx on their ass and control the prices of products, but i like progression in materialism... and communist doctrines don't help technological advancement.

Gas prices have plummeted. now, if you tax the gas companies more, the gas prices will go up. I think anyone who has a use for gas isn't going to find that helpful for them.

Side: McCain
5 points

unfortunately I believe that the drop in oil prices is an indication of how deep and long the recession will be. But there is no fix for this situation that does not involve some pain.

Side: McCain
3 points

Comparing Obama's tax plan to communism is wholly unfair. What Obama wants to do is give tax breaks to those people who 1) need them and 2) will spend the money, thus helping the economy. McCain claimed that the U.S. has one of the highest income taxes for corporations. This might be true in theory, but in reality most corporations do not pay even close to the amount that the law says they should, and instead get around these laws by finding loopholes.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1249465620080812?sp=true

Obama's plan is for a tax increase on only the wealthiest in America. Right now the wealthiest 1% of Americans have as much money as the poorest 50%. This is neither a fair, nor stable way for a country to operate. One of the key reasons that the great depression happened is an imbalance of wealth. With this in mind it's no wonder we have a financial crisis. Trickle down economics does not work. Building the economy from the bottom up is what Obama proposes and it makes a whole lot more sense.

Side: Obama
JakeJ(3254) Disputed
1 point

That is called socialism and it does not work.

Side: McCain
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
0 points

i never compared OBAMA to communism. I said that if he wants to control the prices of the market, that would be communism. otherwise, prices will just go up when he taxes the coprorations.

simple economics.

Side: McCain
JakeJ(3254) Disputed
0 points

Okay, so when its all said and done barack wants to help some Americans and Senator John McCain wants to help all Americans. Obama would have you believe that helping everyone is unrealistic, or that McCain would only help the rich. Those things are not true.

Side: McCain
2 points

McCain's tax plan is better because of the simple fact that redistribution of wealth, I feel, will further hurt our country. The Democrat/Liberal idea of taxation is going from the bottom up. Meaning tax the rich more and more and give the money to the lower class and eventually the money will circulate back up to the wealthy and big businesses. The Republicans/Conservatives believe, give tax breaks to the big companies and as a result they'll expand thus creating more jobs and strengthening our economy. The problem with Obama's tax plan is that its too risky for todays world economy. The U.S. has to now compete with countries like China, India,etc. where products can be made A LOT cheaper. So far two of my family members who were supervisors of their departments, lost their jobs because of the company moving the departments to India, where the company can save 6 CENTS per book printed (Comes out to be about 59 million dollars per year in savings, just for the two departments). If Obama taxes the big companies, whats to stop them from going overseas? Obama promises tax breaks for companies who don't ship jobs overseas, but whose going to pick up the tab for those tax cuts? The Middle Class.

-With big tax increases on companies, just means HIGHER PRICES.

-Do you like paying $4.00 for a gallon of gas? Well, I can't wait to see what it'll be with Obama's tax plan.

-Obama's plan is also going to make it harder for people in the middle class to move up because as soon as anyone works their way up to making a salary of $250,000, they will be rewarded with a huge tax. So for all middle class better keep your salary below the mark.

Side: McCain
2 points

I've been doing some rescearch on all of these arguments and latly im tired of people just saying stuff Mcain has been in congress and a rep he knows wha the is doing as of obama his is very good as well so there for why argue their both well put and good for all people. this time of year people start to get all hurt for on preson i should know i go to school in arizona, coolidge high there fore my vote dose not count

Side: McCain
2 points

If you don't want to debate then find another site. The only way people can come to conclusions is by discussing ideas to determine if they are valid or not. Also proofreading is helpful.

Side: Obama
1 point

Redistribution only works if everyone does their part and not everyone is doing their part right now.

Side: McCain
1 point

said that if he wants to control the prices of the market, that would be communism. otherwise, prices will just go up when he taxes the coprorations.

Supporting Evidence: CISSP exam (www.actual-exams.com)
Side: McCain
0 points

this explains it

**obamas plan**
Side: McCain
-2 points
locke223(48) Disputed
1 point

thats not obama you nut!

Side: Obama
-3 points
Ray1103(10) Disputed
5 points

Oh wow.....

That guy on the you tube video, he has so many credentials and he is so good, I mean you can trust him, MAYBE HE SHOULD BE COMMANDER IN CHIEF!!!!!

NO!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry to tell you this but, your one of the supporters who don't know much. The nicest way I can put it.

Obama will be raising taxes, the highest ever but on the people making over 250,00 dollars a year. Read the Obama Plan. If you don't trust his site, than go ahead and search it and look on other creditable sites. Also, just to say that man if that is his house doesn't look like he is making over 250,000 dollars a year so I can tell you he is actually going to get a tax break.

Of course lets lower taxes for everyone and just cut spending on everything? No sorry we can't do that. We would have to cut to much and many things we cant afford to cut.

It's like in France, the poor was taxed so much while the Clergy didn't pay taxes and neither did the wealthy. The very rich wealthy people should pay more taxes than us, why?

They make more and can afford it.

Next time read and get some nice evidence not some guy on you tube. Who my sister says is very ugly...=]

Side: Obama
3 points

Obama is going cause another great depression? Oops too late Bush already did that by helping to deregulate the market. A plan that McCain supported. He even described himself as "primarily a deregulater."

What McCain and Bush have tried to do is called "trickle down" economics. The theory is, help the rich get more money and then they will spend it and the whole economy will improve. If you want to know the result of this plan, get a newspaper and look in the financial section. What Obama plans to do is exactly the opposite. He is going to build the economy from the bottom up. By giving more money to lower and middle class citizens who will spend the money, the economy will improve.

I also don't understand how cutting peoples taxes is going to cost them money. I know that your saying "corporations that are taxed will raise prices on everything" but this isn't true. Instead they will look to create a more efficient company (this is what happened in Europe) and possibly stop paying CEOs tens or hundreds of millions of dollars a year. A 3% tax increase on the wealthiest Americans will only benefit the Middle and Lower classes.

Side: Obama
Inkwell(328) Disputed
0 points

I know you hate to let facts get in your way and trip you up but the deregulation bill everyone is blaming is Gramm's bill which CLINTON voted into law, not Bush. The current problems were caused directly by Democrats BLOCKING regulation. You have it all wrong . . . as usual. Darn those pesky facts for getting in the way again!

And where did you make up this silly idea that Europeans companies are more efficient? We make them more efficient by taxing our companies. Look at the productivity numbers. Our workers are more productive than ever. But the COMPANY cannot be as effective because of artificial burdens imposed by taxation. The last time this happened Reagan corrected the unfair advantage that foreign companies had and it resulted in a decade of growth that ended with the 2000 tech bubble busting.

This whole idea that our economic planning has failed is a joke. The economy will go up and down no matter what system is in effect. It is just the nature of things. The systemic problems with our economy are not trickle down related. They are caused by politics interfering. If it wasn't for congressional muddling, the falling oil prices would already be solving the economic jitters. If it wasn't for congressional interference with energy policy, we wouldn't be driving up food prices with a silly plan for ethanol. If food and energy costs were back to normal, inflation would not be crushing the middle and lower classes. So our probs are not economic theory but, as usual, regulatory interference. Congress crushes us no matter what system is in place economically.

Side: McCain
JakeJ(3254) Disputed
0 points

"trickle down" is a myth used by libs to attck republicans.

Side: McCain
locke223(48) Disputed
1 point

Get off Joe the plumier!That the only way Republicans can get to the middle class thats just sad!

Side: Obama
6 points

McCain cannot guarantee that his plan will actually create jobs, merely provide incentive for those who would already consider employing others. However, with Obama if you are middle/lower class and thus currently or have recently been employed, you will not pay more in taxes.

For a family of four with a $50,000 income it's far more painful to lose 15% of thier income around $7500 because it costs more than $42,500 to provide the essentials. Whilst a family of four with an income of $300,000 losing 15% of their income STILL has 255,000 to survive off--MORE than enough.

We are a country which believes each person is created equally therefore each person has an equal RIGHT to survival. Tax breaks to rich corporations cause the middle class and poor to suffer unnecessarily. It essentially steals from the hardworking families so that the rich can get richer. This is the reason for redistribution of wealth. Any other viewpoint is just greedy.

Side: Obama
Inkwell(328) Disputed
3 points

You are wrong AND I am greedy, not BECAUSE I am greedy. Who are you to tell me how much is enough and who are you to put your sticky little fingers in MY pocket and steal money I have worked for and earned. This whole premise is un American.

You say we are a country which believes each person is created equal. But the guy who put that into our collective psyches didn't mean it. Thomas Jefferson clearly meant that all white, propertied males are created equal. He owned slaves which does not promote equality. He wrote draconian slave laws for Virginia that punished runaway slaves including their lives so he did not believe that we all had an equal right to survive. Tax breaks as social engineering are meant to encourage a desired action, usually job creation, Research and Development, environmental goals, etc. Are they abused or written poorly? Of course! But taking my money to give to someone else is not American. What is my incentive to excel if the fruits of my efforts are taken from me?

We can and should tighten up or eliminate corporate welfare but if you institute near universal welfare to replace it, it is the end of America. But we all want new energy sources explored. Some of us want Global Warming corrected. We want new drugs discovered. Those are the things that corporate tax breaks bring you. Why spend billions that might or might not ever produce a dime? I am a stockholder. Over 60% of American Households are stockholders. If you are not one of them, seriously, you should contact me so I can show you how you can afford to be part of that investor class, whatever you make. Do I want my investment spent on efforts that might never produce a return on my investment? The government can influence the country by incentivizing your actions. The way they do this is tax breaks. For example, they want you to buy a house so they give you a tax break on your mortgage interest payments. I bet you are in favor of that. The issue is not who deserves it or has a right to survive. The issue is what does the most good for the country in achieving its goals. The nation and society has rights too. Tax breaks for corporations are not to enrich the rich. It is to develop medicines to cure YOU. It is to develop wind energy to reduce YOUR dependence on foreign oil. It is to get a job for YOU to work at. Taking money from me and giving it to you is just European socialism. You will turn us into France. Where mobs of young people burned huge parts of the country because of no jobs.

Damn right I am greedy. I don't let crooks come into my house and steal my belongings. They might be poor. They might have hungry children. But they do not deserve my money. I am happy to pay my taxes. I believe in this country and know I must pay my fair share. I am philanthropic and invest in places that support the nation's economic infrastructure. I do not have money stashed offshore, own property offshore and I drive an American car. I do not short stocks because although I think it is a valid investment style, I do not bet against the US. I invest in the dollar (which is the ONLY place i am making money right now). And now you tell me that a mommy state is going to take my money and give me back an allowance which they determine is adequate for me and give the rest to someone who might be a drug dealer, might drive a foreign car, might do nothing to improve the nation, their community, or society at all.

Everyone should have the right to survive. I agree. Everyone should have the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. But this whole class warfare of the Obama campaign is a direct return to the battles of the Sixties.

I have no problem paying more taxes, I really don't. If it goes to paying down the debt, I am OK with it. If it goes to a massive infrastructure project, I am OK with it. If it goes to a well thought out and comprehensive plan to deal with entitlements, I am OK with it. But is it really hard to understand why I don't want mommy Obama to take my money and give me an allowance and keep some and give you some? Do you not understand why I am opposed to that? If you really don't understand how I feel, you should read Ayn Rand. Either Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged. It is totally over the top, not to be taken literally, but it illustrates why I object to your version of this country and why it is counterproductive and Anti American IMO.

Side: McCain
HGrey87(750) Disputed
7 points

It's not stealing. If you make more money, you keep more. But certain levels are excessive. The habits of the ultra-wealthy are illustrative. Trickle-down does NOT work. The incentive to excel is still there. You will only be taxed for half of your income when you are making absolutely ludicrous amounts. People only complain about this so they can ensure that their offspring will always be ultra-wealthy. I think an entrenched elite, or an aristocracy, is less in line with the American ideal than Socialism.

It's not right for the wealthy to take a larger burden? Isn't it "Unamerican" that 100 million have no insurance, and a further 45 million would be out of luck if they became injured or unemployed?

Norway: Highest taxes; happiest, healthiest people in the world.

Side: Obama
Zarepheth(10) Disputed
2 points

Quote: "What is my incentive to excel if the fruits of my efforts are taken from me?"

When many people participate in production all should receive a share of the production. But how should the fruits of their combined efforts be distributed?

In our current system, the owners of the company - who did NOT participate - get the largest share. After them, senior management, who did not participate, get a share. Then middle management - who may (or may not) have participated receive a share. Eventually the job foreman gets a piece. Finally, whatever is left is distributed to the laborers who did most of the work. As far as distributing the wealth is concerned, I fail to see the difference between this system and slavery.

A better solution would be to break large corporations into many smaller corporations. Remove from banks the power to create money and give it back to the government. Take land from the land owners and require them to rent the land from the community. Now all the profits from rent will go straight back to the community. Smaller companies more evenly divide the fruits of combined labor between workers and managers. And government can create/recall money as needed to benefit society.

Side: Obama
6 points

If your opinion on who has the better tax plan is based on the information provided by the Heritage Foundation ... I suggest you look elsewhere.

I suggest you look at each candidate's website.

http://www.barackobama.com/taxes/

http://www.johnmccain.com/

(you may have to dig around Senator McCain's website a bit to find his specific tax proposals)

My support for Senator Obama is NOT based on who has the better tax plan. For me, when it comes to the presidential election, there is ONE OVER-RIDING CONCERN - who is least likely to start a nuclear war.

Barack Obama is thoughtful and careful, and would consider all the consequences of "pushing the button". John McCain strikes me as impetuous and dangerous, and I don't want his finger anywhere near the button.

Side: Tax Plans
4 points

Well, Obama is cutting taxes for 95% of the country, and raising them for the 5 % of the super rich. I think it is good of him to support middle and working class families.

Side: Obama
2 points

If you are rich mccain if you are middle class or poor then obama and most Americans are middle class.

Side: Obama
2 points

I have no problem paying more taxes, I really don't. If it goes to paying down the debt, I am OK with it. If it goes to a massive infrastructure project, I am OK with it. If it goes to a well thought out and comprehensive plan to deal with entitlements, I am OK with it. But is it really hard to understand why I don't want mommy Obama to take my money and give me an allowance and keep some and give you some? Do you not understand why I am opposed to that?

Everyone should have the right to survive. I agree. Everyone should have the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. But this whole class warfare of the Obama campaign is a direct return to the battles of the Sixties.

Supporting Evidence: testking 70-640 (www.real-testking.com)
Side: Obama