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Christianity answers a lot of questions in a very simple way. Humans are naturally curious. Being able to answer every curiosity with a single word can be comforting when you don't have the resources to find a complete answer.
This is not just problem of Christianity, it is same for all religions.
Truly religious people always were "not very smart" and often illiterate. If you think about their living standard and income they usually are poor or close to it. Repetitive dead end jobs, farmers, factory workers ...peasants. For them the idea of heaven is sort of justice. After their shitty lives in debt and/or hunger under control of their cruel masters/bosses .... they will be in place of eternal happiness forever...
...this deluded picture in their head is pretty much all they have, so they do not want to give it up...
You said religious people are not very smart. Christianity proves that wrong. no it does not, religious peasants do not participate on research. Researchers are rarely religious.
Christianity is the worst thing that happen to human race. It caused countless wars and 1000 years of dark age with banned science. So fuck that ridiculous bullshit...
Not christianity, it was the unsaved leaders of a religion using the name of Christianity, mostly catholic. The advancements came from countries who have christianity in them. Look at history. Up until about 1500 all of the world was about equal. They fought with the same weapons.
Then the bible is given to people to read for themselves instead of listening to CATHOLIC Priest. And the western world took off and left everyone else. I'm not saying it was always christians who made the advancements, but countries where Christianity was dominant.
Up until about 1500 all of the world was about equal.
Not really. Look at ancient China or pre-Christian Greece and Rome, all were very much ahead of the world at one time or the other. Access to resources and political and economic dominance tend to spur innovation more than anything else.
The Christian nations happened to have these traits going for them, so they gained as well, but giving credit to Christianity for that advancement is pretty myopic. Japan is one of the most advanced countries on the planet, but has a very small and uninfluntial Christian population.
Does anyone wear a pacemaker produced in Pakistan? Have you noticed any breakthroughs in electrical super conductivity emanating from Saudi Arabia? Would you buy a sedan designed and assembled in Sudan? Did the dental anesthetic, Novocain, get invented in Nigeria or Botox in Biafra?
I think that open inquiry is more important than avoiding multi-cultural insensitivity, so let’s ask why virtually all scientific and medical advances of the past thousand years occurred within western civilization.
There is no defect in the people of the countries I have mentioned. Western civilization’s remarkable monopoly of progress is due to the qualities that Judaism and Christianity imbued in the cultures, societies, and nations they spawned. Widely held beliefs truly do have consequences.
It isn’t that hard to see how a Bible-based view of reality shapes a culture and fuels scientific discovery. The opening words of God’s directive to humanity “In the beginning God created heaven and earth” strips away the illusion of a random world and sets men on the road to scientific discovery.
Science is mainly about seeking meaningful patterns. Knowing that patterns in the natural world exist, no matter how elusive they may be, reinforces the persistence of the investigator.
People acculturated by Judaism and Christianity discovered calculus, the periodic table, penicillin, relativity, and planetary motion. Those Bible-believers invented electricity, and most everything else that makes life today so much better than it was a millennium ago. What drove their quest was the knowledge that the universe was not random along with the desire to understand God’s universe as a way to understanding Him.
The opening sentence of the Bible told them it had been created by a benevolent Deity to fulfill His grand plans and as such, it was knowable.
I think that open inquiry is more important than avoiding multi-cultural insensitivity, so let’s ask why virtually all scientific and medical advances of the past thousand years occurred within western civilization.
Wealthy, expansionist countries with considerable resources have always had the advantage. Also, once the ball gets rolling, momentum can carry it on. Technology not only begets more technology, but tends to generate funds for more research and frees up time for society as a whole.
Did you know that some of the most incredible advances in architecture and engineering are coming out of UAE right now?
Another thing is neo-colonialism- The Western world essentially conquered places like Africa and South America and kept them down both intentionally and not.
It isn’t that hard to see how a Bible-based view of reality shapes a culture and fuels scientific discovery.
Maybe if you intentionally forget ALL of the times the church condemned those whose views showed a vision of the universe not in accordance with observed reality, or all of the creationists standing against deep time geology, evolution while claiming that the global flood is possible and trying to hold back stem cell research.
Have you noticed that in the era of the most rapid advancement ever (the last century or two) the number of atheists and agnostics in the scientific community has increased exactly in step with advancement, and currently are much more heavily represented in the scientific population than in the general populace.
The opening words of God’s directive to humanity “In the beginning God created heaven and earth” strips away the illusion of a random world and sets men on the road to scientific discovery.
First of all, you are acting as though no other religions have creation stories, yet almost all of them do.
Second, this so called "random" view you speak of (depends what definition of random you mean) is exactly what scientific discovery has led us to. We find no hint of "supernatural" acts and entities, but an endless variety of naturalistic causes.
Basically, the best thing that Christianity gave to the Western World in terms of advancement was a sense of self-importance and manifest destiny that led them to believe it was all right to conquer everything in sight, and even that is more human nature than anything else.
...where is the link between Christianity and those discoveries???? Same location? Sounds to me as an accident... otherwise we can say that the biggest discoveries in mathematics were because of chlamydia... really very often it as around mathematical discoveries ... so hail Chlamydia
Man's innate nature cannot understand the things of God. Wisdom from the world will never give an account for God; for it is folly to them. Therefore, we should brainwash ourselves in the Spirit of the Word, knowing Christ first and foremost. As Dostoevsky wrote, "if someone proved to me that Christ were outside the truth, and in reality the truth were outside of Christ, then I should prefer to remain with Christ rather than with the truth." Now, this is not to say that we do not think critically. It simply means that we rest on a Biblical basis first and foremost, with that basis itself being debated over.
Man's innate nature cannot understand the things of God.
Cop out.
Wisdom from the world will never give an account for God; for it is folly to them.
That should tell you something right there.
if someone proved to me that Christ were outside the truth, and in reality the truth were outside of Christ, then I should prefer to remain with Christ rather than with the truth."
A cute hypothetical that misses the point that such premise has not been proven and most likely never will.
It is frankly disturbing that you can consider this "wisdom". It is brainwashing. It is an excuse not to question. Its the same kind of garbage that other religions would tell their followers to keep people from asking the damning questions.
What?
Christ being outside of truth. It can only be supported by presupposition and circular logic. It is an excuse to avoid rationality.
It is frankly disturbing that you can consider this "wisdom". It is brainwashing. It is an excuse not to question. Its the same kind of garbage that other religions would tell their followers to keep people from asking the damning questions.
We question all the time, o friend! 1 John 4:1 reads as follows: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world." We test the spirits to discern which are from God and which are not. However, the basis yet again is in Scripture. We base everything off of Scripture, for it is the power of God! We should want to be brainwashed, as Christians; for we do not want to be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine and deceitful scheme as Ephesians 4 says: "And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love."
Christ being outside of truth. It can only be supported by presupposition and circular logic. It is an excuse to avoid rationality.
The point he was making is that, even though Christ is the way and the truth and the life, if He were to be outside of the truth, he should rather be with Christ than with the truth. He, like I, should rather remain with Christ, even if He were to been proven as false. Its not an argument at all. Its an assertion of our dedication to God above worldly wisdom.
By reality you mean talking animals, magic, earth created in 6 days by wizard ? 900 years old sailor that fitted millions of animals on wooden ship? Does that feels ok to you?
This "questioning" you speak of does not appear to me to be objective and supportable outside of the scripture. Hence no different from any dogma spouted by any other religion. As per usual, you have totally failed to address my concerns.
The point he was making is that, even though Christ is the way and the truth and the life, if He were to be outside of the truth,
These are incompatible statements. It is excuse making.
Its an assertion of our dedication to God above worldly wisdom.
This "questioning" you speak of does not appear to me to be objective and supportable outside of the scripture. Hence no different from any dogma spouted by any other religion. As per usual, you have totally failed to address my concerns.
We question things, sure, but we establish everything in the Scriptures. I said that.
These are incompatible statements. It is excuse making.
I know that they are incompatible statements... thats why we're saying that if Christ were to be outside of the truth, we should rather remain with Him than with the truth. Its not excuse making; its simply us establishing that we would rather be ignorant of all things, being fools even to ourselves, and to remain in whatever we can hold onto with respect to Christ, than to be in the truth.
Has worldly wisdom done us such a disservice?
Yes, it has actually. Worldly wisdom is incapable of understanding God, and only leads people astray from the truth of reality.
We question things, sure, but we establish everything in the Scriptures.
So it has been all spelled out for you. Interpreted not only by the authors of the Bible but also by the leaders of whatever interpretation of Christianity you happen to agree with. It should not be necessary to be reliant only on scripture.
its simply us establishing that we would rather be ignorant of all things, being fools even to ourselves, and to remain in whatever we can hold onto with respect to Christ, than to be in the truth.
Okay. Why?
Worldly wisdom is incapable of understanding God, and only leads people astray from the truth of reality.
No. Just astray from a mythology that had unsteady basis in reality in the first place. If we are so far astray from reality, how is it that infant mortality rates have declined, life spans have increased, some diseases have been wiped out, we have learned to communicate at great distance, travel to the stars, etc. ?
So it has been all spelled out for you. Interpreted not only by the authors of the Bible but also by the leaders of whatever interpretation of Christianity you happen to agree with. It should not be necessary to be reliant only on scripture.
Scripture is the basis of everything. It is the basis of our belief system.
Okay. Why?
Because Christ is our all. The end of John 6 makes our point.
No. Just astray from a mythology that had unsteady basis in reality in the first place. If we are so far astray from reality, how is it that infant mortality rates have declined, life spans have increased, some diseases have been wiped out, we have learned to communicate at great distance, travel to the stars, etc. ?
We have become spiritually hardened, and have become distanced from God.
Then why does it have such a difficult time corresponding with perceptible reality?
Because Christ is our all.
Since this is a debate about Christians failing to think for themselves, I want you to answer in your own words, not scripture. Why is Christ your all?
Then why does it have such a difficult time corresponding with perceptible reality?
It doesn't.
Since this is a debate about Christians failing to think for themselves, I want you to answer in your own words, not scripture. Why is Christ your all?
Because He is God, and God is the end to which all things aim.
What does that even mean?
We are all, in a state of nature, continually and totally evil. However, total depravity does not infer utter depravity, which is to say the degree to which one is in rebellion to God, or in evil. Living outside of the Word and outside of the Gospel, and outside of God's good graces, for so long results in one becoming closer to utter depravity. We become more evil.
I recognize and appreciate that. As I stated in the title, this is only in reference to "some" Christians. And I do realize that I could just as easily say some people, but it was in reference to one of Srom's statements to you. I think there might be an extra layer to religious who exhibit the tendency, rather than pure laziness. Not sure though, curious to see what people think.
The tendency by many to refer to scripture and only scripture when dealing with certain moral issues. The tendency to attempt to use scripture to convince people who have already explained they do not believe in it, instead of trying to use objective reasoning that is more likely to be affective. The fact that people like Ham have explicitly stated that if observable reality conflicts with scripture, scripture must be chosen. The fact that some Christians (not all, but some) refuse to allow their faith to be challenged, are afraid of it. The "too many books, only need one" philosophy. And to be fair, this can be applied to many religions and philosophies, but I interact with hardline Christians more than most other groups so....
We're not,we believe that sin takes us farther than they wanna go & pay a greater price than you wanna pay. We can watch baseball,football,Nascar, & pick our favorite teams & players,that's thinking for yourself. We believe in Revelation 21:8 that all liars,sexually immoral,pervs,murderers,cowards,crooks,idol worshipers,study witchery will go into The Lake of Fire. This' the 2nd death.
We believe causes us to sin less,like being bailed out for a crime you did commit want you to become a better person,because you have a 2nd chance at life.
We're not,we believe that sin takes us farther than they wanna go & pay a greater price than you wanna pay.
Who defined sin for you?
We believe in Revelation 21:8 that all liars,sexually immoral,pervs,murderers,cowards,crooks,idol worshipers,study witchery will go into The Lake of Fire. This' the 2nd death.
Because Christians depend on this Imaginary figure for guidance and exploring the world. All that imaginary friend does is brain wash you and disable you from discovering the world by yourself, and opening your mind to new things. Not living your life in fear due to this Imaginary fragment of man's endless imagination.
It's not 'christians' that are afraid to think for themselves, but rather 'people.' This isn't exclusive to christianity, nor is it exclusive to religion in general, but is rather common across all demographics from what I've seen.
There are christians who think for themselves and draw their own conclusions; this is one of the reasons that there are so many different branches within christianity.
There are also atheists who do not think for themselves, but rather just parrot what they've been told. We've all seen the odd exchange, here and there, that the christian has 'won' simply because the atheist is unable to think beyond the basic points of his position.
I don't believe that, in any case, people are 'afraid' to think for themselves. I believe that most people are naturally inclined to go with the herd (so to speak), and are conditioned to keep their heads down and not ask too many questions. It's not fear, but a combination of genetic inclination and learned behavior, in my estimation.
