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Arguments:168
Total Votes:263
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 Why do Americans consider Communism bad? (156)

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Why do Americans consider Communism bad?

Americans fought, fought, fought, and fought some more trying to get rid of communism in the world, but why is it so bad. It gives people equal rights, and does not force people to live in oppression. 

 

Note: 

I am not for communism, I'm only causing debate, and isn't that what this site is for. 

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Americans fear communism because it represents a person's inability to control their own life. I mean, the USA is all about rights--equal rights, progressive rights, new rights, old rights, too many rights, too few rights. Communism removes some of these rights as a sacrifice towards what is considered to be the "greater good."

In all honesty, communism (theoretically) is all about true equality. Every person is (theoretically) equal, which is (supposedly) what the USA strives for. But Americans don't really want that. They want to be more equal than others. And a communist government that truly levels the playing field is not what Americans want.

Side: Americans don't want equality
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
3 points

It's not leveling the playing field, it's tilting the playing field so that the losing team can win.

This is the problem with Pinko legislation.

Communism (theoretically) is just about as realistic as Candy Land. Sure, Candy Land would be great since Candy is good and in a magical world like this, it would be healthy. But it doesn't exist and won't exist. What Communism ends up bringing is a dictator who uses the poor to gain control. This is what History has taught us. Nothing good ever derived from the promise of a Communist Rule.

Side: flawed theory
3 points

I fully understand that communism does not, and cannot work, except perhaps if implemented in extremely small groups, and even then it may not function (we've all seen--or lived--"Office Space"). What I'm arguing here is the idea of communism, the fundamental theory of communism. It makes sense, it does.

Side: flawed theory
3 points

Communism allows the politboro to create a common good scenario, then once that's accomplished through corruption, blackmail, and glad handing they "take" the common good stuff and use it themselves. One only needs to visit a communist country to appreciate the misery. You can't buy anything, you must report your whereabouts. Doesn't that sound like gr8 fun. Some communist recipients receive one meal per day. After all of the "goods" are taken not much is left. Only the basics.

Side: flawed theory
1 point

Communism never worked. It brought wars, suffering and many people died because of it. If communism really came about, who will contol murderers, thieves and all those bad people? The government won"t have the power to stop them, will they?

Side: flawed theory
casper3912(1581) Disputed
3 points

Communism, when actually implemented: allows for greater control of your life and more rights.

Side: Ignorance
1 point

Casper, thank you! no one has any true understanding of a communist regime I have spent hours scouring for someone with some insight, the americans dislike communism purely because the 'american dream' is basically code for the petty bourgois exploiting there former comrades in class.

In lamence terms, thanks you are correct

Side: Ignorance
1 point

I tend to agree with you here and I don't really have anything else to add. I just wanted to state that when you mentioned the "greater good", it made me think of "Hot Fuzz" and I imagined a group of people in black robes all chanting that right after I read it. :D Very funny movie!

Side: Ignorance

Hahahahah, it's all for the greater good! (The greater good.) The greater good. (The greater good.)

That part always really creeped me out.

Side: Ignorance
JoFlyAg21(16) Disputed
1 point

Total BS -

Here this is the Communist Manifesto:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/61/61.txt

after that look up the "naked comunist"

communism is firt spread by those who are unaware of it's intentions and meaning and lastly or those in power who enforce pure and utter evil on the masses.

Side: Ignorance
niesha(1) Clarified
1 point

I think americans think communism is bad because they need greater things to do then sit around and be foolish like you said the americans don't like the communism they wiil say they every time somebody say something about the communist and that's why people like americans are are not agreeing with the govermernt. Thank you any way

Side: Ignorance
3 points

Theoretical Communism:

Retarded belief that somehow everyone will just agree to work for each other and work on their skill to benefit society and not in any way for personal gain. Doctors cure you, farmers grow food, butchers feed you. No money necessary, just some kind of paradise and NO ONE wants unnecessary material goods (iPods, fast cars, drugs, good alcohol, guns, thin lubricated condoms, porn, computers, etc.)

It's bad because it's stupid. Like Anarchy and Anarcho-Capitalism. It's like if Wizard of Oz became a political belief.

Realistic Communism:

The only Communism that succeeded was the totalitarian kind (USSR, China, Cambodia, Cuba, future Venezuela).

It's bad. The first 3 were the BEST examples, for it was HOORRRIIBBBLLE to live there. If you express any kind of open mindedness (poetry and stories) you were sent to a camp for hard, forced labor like those of the Concentration Camps. And you were tortured... a lot like 1984, except they were much more primitive than that... figures, they were stupid Commies.

Christians were usually killed. Advocates of any other form of government or social structure (especially modern Democracy or Capitalism) were hung.

More people died under Mao than any other Dictator. Stalin is probably second.

What pisses me off the most is I was in an American History course and a student was actually trying to say that during the Nuke scare we were just as bad as the Commies. That they had just as much reason to fear us as we did for them. This didn't make sense. These were people who committed GENOCIDE in their own streets, something that we've never done. Lynching, maybe, back in the day, but nothing close to rounding up Christians and hanging them all city by city under GOVERNMENT ORDERS. We had a reason to fear them, because they were mass murderers already.

Ideally and Realistically, Communism limits open mindedness and incentive. But either way, it's just a bad thing.

Edit: Cuba sucks as well, ask any Cuban who went on a shitty inner tube and almost died just to get out of there.

Venezuela also sucks, but it's still technically a Democracy... but, there is an extreme amount of censorship there.

Side: flawed theory
curtix(41) Disputed
5 points

Retarded belief that somehow everyone will just agree to work for each other and work on their skill to benefit society and not in any way for personal gain. Doctors cure you, farmers grow food, butchers feed you.

What is so retarded about everyone working together instead of for themselves?

...NO ONE wants unnecessary material goods (iPods, fast cars, drugs, good alcohol, guns, thin lubricated condoms, porn, computers, etc.)

Communism isn't about living as a minimalist and just contributing long enough to make sure everyone's basic needs are met. As technology advances, more and more consumer items become very easily reproduced.

If i record a song and give it away for free, millions of people could potentially be able to access my song over night. If I chose to use the song for personal gain, I have to deal with the record industry, distribution industry, and still only those that are willing to pay for my song are able to access it.

Society benefits more from sharing the song than from copyrighting it. The amount of gain that the group writing/recording/producing the song would receive from selling the song minus the wasted resources of protecting and distributing the song is much less than the amount of gain that society as a whole would receive if it was given away.

It's bad because it's stupid.

This and the first 2 words i quoted are probably why you were voted down.

Side: Ignorance
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
3 points

Everyone working together would be great, but it DOESN'T HAPPEN. The only reason why Totalitarian Communism worked was because the government FORCED people to work for needs and not for profit.

People naturally want to make gain. It is in our nature. The ideal view of Communism is that somehow this just won't happen anymore, that people won't want to work for themselves and will just agree to work for need and not for profit and want.

How is this NOT retarded? It disregards any psychological realism. It doesn't make sense. It's like ideal Anarchy where everyone will just agree not to hurt each other (In the Communist Manifesto, the goal is to eliminate government and the people will just work together and not need government). Anyone who actually thinks this will work is RETARDED. And those who strive for it only bring real Communism, which are the Genocidal Dictatorships (as History shows).

Side: flawed theory
joeknows(2) Disputed
2 points

The problem is NO innovation and no technological advances come from communism. Communist societies don't create ipods, fast cars, and computers.

That is just fact. Fact that can't be ignored. The chinese have more collapsing new bridges than we have collapsing old bridges. Explain... they didn't invent or create ipod they copied it. They are technologically backwards.

Obvious examples are north korea vs south, east germany vs. West, cccp vs usa. There are enough examples that should prove as a warning to all that communism impeeds progress and freedom. People are selfish. The only way to get them to fall I line is severe punnishment and restriction of individual liberties and freedoms

Side: flawed theory
Kinda(1649) Disputed
3 points

Well seeing as you got so upset I guess I might waswell tell you what's wrong (unless my idea of communism is wrong)

Firstly you're basing the fact that it's retarded because you think people will not work for personal gain. Basically you're saying that humans can't be selfless when it comes to work. Secondly, in a communist society you CAN have ipods, fast cars etc. However if there was no capital societies then ipods would probably have not been designed.

Those examples of communists you gave were under a totalitarian government that didn't truly practice communism. Communism is in no way responsible for the stuff you said it does. It's the governments that did that... not communism. You've said it yourself. UNDER GOVERNMENT ORDERS... not communist orders. Communism isn't a government.. it's a form of economy.

Ideally and Realistically, Communism limits open mindedness and incentive. But either way, it's just a bad thing.

This is the part that made me think you dunno what you're talking about. Maybe I've got the wrong understanding of communism, but it's about communities working together to push society with each person responsible for his/her duties. You say there are no incentives.. but there are. The difference is that the incentives affect everybody and not just one person.

Side: Ignorance
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
4 points

O MY FUCKIN' GOD!!!

Okay, I said this over 9000 times, but I guess I'll say it again.

I ALREADY EXPLAINED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IDEAL COMMUNISM AND REAL COMMUNISM.

Real Communism, is THE ONLY COMMUNISM THAT HAS EVER EXISTED, which was a genocidal, dictatorship. It's a form of government, not just economy. Socialism is the economics of Communism. It says so, IN THE FUCKIN' COMMUNIST MANIFESTO. Communist rule was not ideal communism, but as we saw, it was the only communism that could truly exist.

Why? Because people won't work without selfish purpose unless someone makes them. the USSR was able to succeed in many Communist goals. The only goal it didn't succeed in was elimination of the government (which would have made all the other goals impossible to maintain).

The strive for the ideal state of Communism only brings hurt. It does no good. It will never happen unless we double think the shit out of everyone. And really, where's the fun in doublethink?

Side: flawed theory
Minefield(1) Disputed
1 point

Well I agree with you for the most part, except for the following:

"in a communist society you CAN have ipods, fast cars"

Reason being because communism is all about equality, right? That would mean that people could only have ipods if everyone had one, or fast cars if everyone had one (perhaps with the exception of people who did not want these things.) It is very hard to say, since communism has never existed, how this would play out. If everyone did not have the same physical possessions, which is technically already against the concept of communism, then it would not be equal. Do you see how many variables there are in the equation? All of this is besides the point, however, as I was just going to say that there is simply not enough resources to support an entire world of having ipods and fast cars. Heck, it's physically impossible to feed one hamburger per week to every man in China. And that is assuming you give none to the U.S. There are not enough cows, and there physically cannot be enough cows on earth. What I am saying is that North America is very privileged. Luxuries that we have here are rare on earth. Things that happen everyday that we don't even notice are foreign to many other countries. Unless you spend signifiant time in other countries, this may be hard to understand. Life under communism would obviously prove much less materialistic (technically, 0% materialistic). If America really wants to support communism, or any sort of global equality whatsoever, they better be prepared to throw away 99% of all their toys, because the rest of the globe cannot have the same standard of living as North Americans do now.

Side: flawed theory
2 points

really... down vote an no rebuttal.

I'm gonna blame "Kinda" for this... and too bad, because they seemed to not read my full response.

I explained why both the theory and the realism were bad... and he/she down votes me and gives some shitty explanation on how Communism is an economic theory. It's a theory on a UTOPIA (Read Communist Manifesto). Socialism is the economic status of a Communist nation. The reason why Marx uses both terms interchangeably in his book.

Kinda did not rebut ANYTHING I said.

Side: flawed theory
1 point

I gave you an up vote =)I especially like the Mao statement. In my class we are studying China and I keep debating with my teacher the evils of Mao. I called Mao as bad, if not worse, than Hitler. Mao's Cultural Revolution was Mao's holocaust, he persecuted Buddhists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, and more. And I mention his Great Leap Forward, were over 20 million people starved to death.

Side: flawed theory
1 point

Mao's death toll ranges between 20 million and 60 million. Far more than Hitler, even at the least.

Stalin is around 50 million; also far more than Hitler.

Hitler was a maniac, which is why he failed so hard. Stalin and Mao had a pseudo-Communist agenda, which is what kept them in power long enough to kill so many. Applied Communism has killed more than any other ideological goal.

Side: flawed theory
casper3912(1581) Disputed
1 point

Communism would allow for the greatest amount of personal gain possible. It'll be similar to open source. Go to sourceforge and download to your hearts intent, for good quality and free programs. Because of opensource, (which is different then merely free programs but they often times are gratis free as well as libre) All you need is a connection to the community's resources and obviously to your own and you have everything you need when it comes to computers. I'm useing firefox right now. Communism is basically expanding out this production method into other industries. The problems it has are technical ones.(which are currently in the process of being solved) Not ones of it violating fundamental laws of the universe.

Totalitarian communism, clearly isn't communism. Imagine a dictatorship decided to call themselves democratic and the whole world believed it so democracy became "nice in theory, but bad in practice". Which tends to actually be the case on large scales. Communism has its domain as well: Russia,china, Cambodia etc weren't ready for communism to begin with.

Side: flawed theory
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
2 points

So what you're saying is that Communism wouldn't be a shit hole if we merely did as much as we did through Capitalism and THEN converted to Communism.

Well, when Capitalism is done making all the good shit happen and technology couldn't possibly get any better, I'll make the switch to Communism.

O wait... Human nature would just cause shit like Fallout 3 to happen... nvm.

Side: flawed theory
1 point

Cuba isn't totalitarian. ask a Cuban? Ask me. I'm one. There has never been a communist country.

Side: flawed theory
ThePyg(6737) Disputed
1 point

Not sure if you're a troll... or just really clueless about what you're talking about.

1st. cuba isn't totalitarian? ask a cuban? well... much of my family (including father) left Cuba to escape oppression... so I guess I did ask a Cuban... and he said yes.

Never been a Communist country? what kind of Communism? If you are referring to Leninism or Stalinism... then yes, it was under Lenin and Stalin.

If you're referring to Marxism, then no.

Side: flawed theory
3 points

American's don't actually have a good understanding of communism. They don't know what it is.. that is why they consider it bad. The reason for this ofcourse is American propganda over the cold war telling people communism is evil when any sane person knows that communism is as evil as capitalism. Communism is a form of an economy.. it was the russian government who was 'evil' not the economy style.

Side: Ignorance
Houston(187) Disputed
1 point

That's a stereotype. Americans have the best educational facilities on Earth, thus we are taught very well. I have not met anyone who did not understand communism. Communism eliminates the strive to work hard and do well. If Bill Gates had lived in Cuba he would have had no strive to invent anything, people invent things to make money. The term "evil" comes from religion, according to the Communist Manifesto, Communists are godless. Thus they are evil, according to definition.

Side: Americans don't want equality
Kinda(1649) Disputed
2 points

thus we are taught very well. I have not met anyone who did not understand communism.

Communism eliminates the strive to work hard and do well

according to the Communist Manifesto, Communists are godless. Thus they are evil, according to definition.

LMAO!! Are you retarded?

Side: Americans don't want equality
aperson(1) Disputed
2 points

i just want to point out one thing i think is important. Making money is NOT the main reason to invent. How about necessity is the mother of invention? How about wanting to contribute to humanity? Wanting to make the world a better place? Wanting to solve a problem? Curiousity? Wanting to feel valuable and be loved? Competing with others like yourself? Etc... I think people invent for a lot more reasons than to get filthy rich. and i believe people who invent great things value a lot more than money and being rich. There are more rewards in life than money. There are plenty of people who work hard at difficult things for not much money and STILL feel rewarded. Once a person's basic needs are met money is NOT the most important thing. Competition IS a part of human nature. It will exist in ANY organizational system humans put themselves in. Money didn't invent competitions and competition is not exclusive to capitalism. and for the record i don't think communism works except in very small groups. and btw pure capitalism and Christianity are contradictory.

Side: flawed theory
casper3912(1581) Disputed
1 point

Most people do not understand communism.

explain open source, it often times(but not always) has no profit motive; yet is alive and healthy; actually thriving because of its superiority in many regards over traditional production methods.

Also, godless people are not "evil". It is clearly evident that an atheist can live a moral life.

Side: Ignorance
2 points

Because of those damned dirty apes. Yup! You heard me! After watching Planet of the Apes and seeing the Communists' true colors no patriotic American would stand for such a world!

Side: Damned Dirty Apes
casper3912(1581) Disputed
2 points

? you get your idea of communism from a movie called "planet of the apes" which i fail to see how that movie relates to communism. How about you get your idea of communism from the communist manifesto, or actual communist literature.

Side: Ignorance
1 point

I agree, Kill the fucking dirty apes! These communist scumbags have really fucking fucked me off and any other motherfucking patriotic fucking Austrian.

Side: Ignorance
Antinazi(1) Disputed
1 point

I'm pretty sure they think the same of every person like you.

Side: Ignorance

In theory, like Socialism, it all looks good on paper but we, as Americans, have never seen a solid representation of a Communist state in which the poor had any chance at all of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and becoming better than they are.

Side: Ignorance

Life is about incentives, and capitalism and democracy creates incentives while communism does neither.

Side: Ignorance
1 point

Amen!

Communist Manifesto:http://www.gutenberg.org/files/61/61.txt

Side: Ignorance
2 points

note: I'm not for Communism...

I think the theory of Communism is a very good one. Everyone gets what they need and gives what they can. The government receives the wealth and distributes it equally to everyone. The problem with this lies within the human nature. Every government leader of a Communist society has become corrupt and failed their society and its needs. The people as well have not followed through with their part. They take more than is necessary and do not give as much because they know they will receive the same as everyone else. In theory, its great; in reality it doesn't work. People are coming down hard on the idea, which is not where the flaws lie.

Side: Ignorance
JoFlyAg21(16) Disputed
1 point

Really then WHO IS WORKING AND PAYING FOR IT???????????

Educate yourself please

Communist Manifesto: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/61/61.txt

Goals of Communism: http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm

God Help America!

Side: Ignorance
2 points

Because the core idea of communism has been distorted by dictators like Stalin and Castro. We see so many examples of communist nations in trouble, and we don't want that to happen to America.

Side: Ignorance
2 points

Americans consider communism bad because of the image of communism created by the media.

Side: Ignorance

Communism is bad because it destroys that thing that drives you to do better. Why would you kill yourself at work while everyone else is doing the bare minimum? Would you do their job as well to make up for their lack of efficiency? And at the end of the day, will you accept the same pay as those that were inefficient? What if they took the fruit of your labor and paid you what they thought it was worth instead of what you thought it was worth. And what if you found out that the ruling class had it better than you? Have you read Animal Farm?

Side: Animal Farm
Mahollinder(898) Disputed
4 points

Communism is bad because it destroys that thing that drives you to do better.

This point is meaningful if and only if we assume that humans weren't driven or motivated to do better, or creative until the middle 19th century.

Why would you kill yourself at work while everyone else is doing the bare minimum?

Why even assume that everyone else is doing the bare minimum?

And at the end of the day, will you accept the same pay as those that were inefficient?

Why is pay even an issue? Communist and Socialist literature regards the means of production and private property, not how much you get paid to do a specific job.

What if they took the fruit of your labor and paid you what they thought it was worth instead of what you thought it was worth.This doesn't make much sense. Communism still proposes a standard of exchange. While you can certainly try to pay what you think something is worth, it doesn't mean that a seller has to sell a commodity at that price.

And what if you found out that the ruling class had it better than you?

Communism is classless.

Have you read Animal Farm?

Yes, have you read Communist or Socialist literature? Woman on the Edge of Time, Of Cannibals, Herland, the always popular (though rarely read...) Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital?

Side: Animal Farm
sushiboy4070 Disputed
3 points

Yes, animal farm is a book about Communist Russia, probably the most imperfect "Communism" ever to exist. it was more of a Capitalist, Fascist state than a Communist state and therefore is no basis for argument against Communism.

Side: No basis
JoFlyAg21(16) Disputed
1 point

ignorant ass you are!!!!!!!!!!! no you ARE a communist!

You better do some research you are totally stupid.

Side: No basis
curtix(41) Disputed
1 point

Implementations of communism and the concept of communism are two very different things.

Just because you read Animal farm does not mean you are a communism expert. If you can say that communism is bad based off a book then I should be able to ignore everything I know about capitalism, look at the financial industry debacle of recent years, and say I am an expert on capitalism.

The concept of communism has value.

Do investors, stock traders, CEO's, etc deserve to make 100 times more money than the lumber jack that works long hours at an extremely labor intensive and dangerous job?

This link, http://blackfriarsinc.com/sizing-release.html estimates that in one year, us companies will spend 1 trillion dollars on marketing. That's one million millions, its a lot of money. Communism doesn't have marketing. In a perfect communist system, the best products would be found and would be made available with no capital being spent on convincing people which one they should like. Eliminating competition eliminates a lot of waste. Capitalism can be extremely wasteful. Our implementation is definitely wasteful.

I'm no expert on either, but i know that just because we have yet to see a viable and fair implementation of communism doesn't mean that there will never be one or that we can't learn anything from the concept.

Supporting Evidence: link (blackfriarsinc.com)
Side: No basis

Well, if products made in Communist countries are so great, why is our military better equipped?

Side: No basis
JoFlyAg21(16) Disputed
1 point

really well then WHO PAYS FOR THE CREATION AND PRODUCTION OF THESE GOODS, not those expecting their monthly gov. check er...handout!

Who pays that BIG Bill? The unproductive? Your idea is ridiculous in the real world.

Side: No basis
JoFlyAg21(16) Clarified
1 point

that is because we used to PRODUCE things in the US .. now we trade with communist countries that have child labor so we can buy CHEAP TRINKETS. Give up your trinkets. Produce something, CHANGE THE WORLD!

Side: No basis
cindy3(23) Disputed
1 point

That's true, but what you are arguing is the way Communism has played out throughout history. The reason the theory doesn't work in reality is because of human nature. I agree with you on that, but what about the theory?

Side: No basis
joeknows(2) Disputed
1 point

Join us in reality! Theory is always perfect on paper thats why its theory and not reality

Side: No basis
1 point

"It gives people equal rights"

I'm pretty sure that government leaders are "people" too.

Side: No basis
curtix(41) Disputed
3 points

I don't have the right to control our army or vote in the senate.

I'm not saying i want to be able to control the army or vote in the Senate, but evil dictators have nothing to do with the principles of communism. You can have communism in a democratic society.

Side: No basis
JoFlyAg21(16) Clarified
1 point

Are you ignorant or evil?

Seriously, who's been lying to you?

Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/61/61.txt

Top Goals of Communism:

http://rense.com/general32/americ.htm

Side: No basis

Of course you're right, but the theory of communism is based on equality. Every government is a wee bit corrupt, and things never go as planned. I treated this debate based on pure theory.

Side: No basis
3 points

Well yeah but that theory sucks.

I like the "All men are created equal" theory. Not the "All men are equal and everybody deserves equal results no matter what" theory.

What if we get payed the same and you do more work? Our founders knew that people don't put in an equal effort, that can't be fair. All they could do is give us equal opportunity. Do we have a perfect system? No. But equal opportunity should always be the goal.

So which theory do you like better?

Side: flawed theory
JoFlyAg21(16) Disputed
1 point

communism is NOT about Equality.

Title: The Communist Manifesto

Author: Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels

READ IT:http://www.gutenberg.org/files/61/61.txt

Side: flawed theory
1 point

Some of the comments here are bafflingly ignorant. Are we talking about Communist Theory and Principle or the Communist states? Regardless, in short, both completely suck. There is a vast amount of literature critiquing both and for very good reasons. The most fundamental problem with Communism is that it simply does not comport with human nature. We are incentive driven creatures. Communism eliminates this incentive, people become frustrated, and quickly try to leave the system...and that is where totalitarianism comes in. Another fundamental problem with communism is that of technological stagnation. An economic system based upon individual choice allows for technological and social advance through entrepreneurship and trial and error. A centrally planned economy applying the labour theory of value will result in stagnation as individual enterprise is stilfed. Furthermore, while Communism claims to be acting in the interest of the group, the problem again is that the group is comprised of INDIVIDUALS. Socialism and Communism have no pricing mechanism. Thus, they simply try to create what the groups thinks it needs/wants regardless what the individuals want. Essentially for Communism to work, the system would have to know simultaneously what each individual desires, the quantity of that good, and the amount each individual is willing to pay for that good and service in order to make the group happy. Well, as we all know, no such mechanism in Commumism exists.

But such a mechanism does exist where we all know all what each person is willing to pay for something, the quantity they desire it in, and what they particularly desire...and it is called the FREE HAND...and it exists in Capitalism.

Side: flawed theory
casper3912(1581) Disputed
1 point

1] Is a pricing system or money/trading always necessary?

2] Could communism use another system besides central planning and still be considered communism?

3] Could you make a bullet list of properties all humans display despite environmental conditions? ie, describe human nature.

Side: Ignorance
1 point
Side: Ignorance
1 point

There is nothing wrong with Communism on paper, it sounds like a good idea, but in reality it does not work because it takes away the self-preservation that drives any economy. All you have to do is look at the horrible conditions that people were living under in the former Soviet Union to see why it doesn't work. People didn't strive to work harder because the knew the government would pay them the same not matter how hard they worked. The the government was going to keep them alive no matter what so they did not have to have any sort of self-preservation.

Side: flawed theory
casper3912(1581) Disputed
1 point

Most communist I have talked to don't consider the ussr to have been communist.

What would happen if people became self-reliant? Would the economy disappear?

Side: Ignorance

Now while it may be true that communism itself fits basic criteria for a sound ideology, it overlooks one crucial fact. Humans, by nature, fight to be better than one another albeit by economic or social reasons. Thus the people who are the ones you see commentating or making points in the media don't want to enter a system where they would be put on the same playing field as everyone else. Since they make what we see, we think that as well.

Side: Ignorance
casper3912(1581) Disputed
1 point

It is not by nature which humans compete and try to be better then another, but by scarcity and the production methods available to man.

Side: Ignorance
1 point

Capitalism is the economic model in the US, and there are many wealthy men and women who profit from this system. When a rival system comes along that threatens to make the working class rebel against managerial staff, you can bet that these people don't want to lose their cushy lifestyle and will spread out misinformation.

In other words the top wealthiest don't want to lose their wealth so they cheat the bottom by spreading information that makes them act against their best interests.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Americans don't like communism because the Rusiians like it

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Most people don't understand the concept, or the difference between communism and socialism. Regardless of popular circulated belief, socialism is not a welfare state or any of this American liberal/progressive crap that tells you to sacrifice for the "greater good." There is no greater good other than yourself. Anyone who has properly studied socialist literature knows that socialism is simply the extension of democracy into the workplace. Laborers come together to vote on who should run the business and whether or not to delegate business decisions to this individual while he is elected, or vote on decisions themselves. Every worker has a say in the business if he/she so chooses. They also vote on fair wages, and nobody say something like "They would just vote themselves all the money." If they did this, the business would fail and they'd all be out a job. It truly puts power and responsibility into the hands of the working class, and eliminates the capitalist class, the exploiters. In capitalism, the only difference is that the same person rules over the business for life, much like an empire. Not only to they make all the decisions, but they also take part of the profits of your labor, or capital. This is why they are called capitalists. They did not earn that capital, you did. And they have no right to it just because they own the business, it is your capital.

Now, communism really is a fantasy world, a utopia. Utopia literally means "nowhere." It won't happen. Marx thought it would, he hoped! But no. Communism is supposedly a society that results from a period of uninterrupted socialism, where wealth and labor are so evenly distributed that a means of exchange (money) is not needed.

I hope this cleared things up.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

The majority of Americans that believe that communism is the way to go are more than likely one of three things. Liberal, Poor, or Stupid. I apologize, but this can be true because: 1) Liberals believe that all people should be equal, no one should be left out, and everyone should have the same rights as others. 2) The poor don't want to be poor anymore and know that this can give them the advantage they need. 3) The stupid do not realize that this will take away their rights, freedoms, and make it so that you can never become more successful than others. They also do not realize all the sacrifices we have had to make to keep our country free. The major problem with this is that the world cannot become perfect, ever, no matter what it can not become close to perfect, but many believe that this view will make all our lives better by making us all equals. This limits how much we can succeed. This means no more bonuses, no reason to try harder at jobs, school, etc. America is free, try to keep it that way. By the way this was written by a 14 year old, so you don't have to listen to me, but this is just my view...

Side: Americans don't want equality
OpenMindMan(2) Disputed
1 point

I absolutely agree with you about not being able to become successful, however I disagree about Liberals believing in communism, because I'm a Liberal that doesn't believe in it.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

i love giving up 50% of my earnings to the government...it sure feels great to be free. god bless america

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

I would like to say, as an American, that many Americans simply do not understand the concept of communism. However, the biggest reason Americans don't want communism is because it has always failed, and no one knows of an example of a successful change to communism. Also, many Americans want to feel rewarded for their hard work, where as in a communist system an individual can not advance them self in society no matter how hard they work

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

I would argue that communism did work for over 10 thousand years

Native Americans were true communists

They didn't have a sense of ownership, everything belonged to the community

Side: Americans don't want equality

Socialism simply cant calculate. There is no other more obvious explanation.

Side: Americans don't want equality

Mainly because they have been brainwashed into hating the very mention of communism or socialism as horrible evils that stop rich people from having all their fun. It is a fear encouraged by the rich upper classes, and a fear that is cultivated amongst the lower classes by said upper classes so that the workers contribute towards their own downfall.

Also, because communism tends to get fucked up pretty quickly. You see, the problem with communism is that it is usually run by a government, and governments fuck everything up. The greatest example of a communist/socialist society that worked was the Spanish anarchist revolution in the 1930s. Unfourtunately, that revolution was halted by Stalin, the authoritarian bastard face. The problem with anarchy is that there is no proper military to defend the borders (which there shouldn't be), so anarchist societies always get overrun fairly quickly.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Read Animal Farm by George Orwell. 1984 by George Orwell. The Trial by Franz Kafka. Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. Communism is an idea, a fantasy. It always ends up the same way.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Well, I think communism is about as good as any goverment/econimic system.

The way communisim works is that people go to their job and work for a wage. That wage is used to by the things that other workers worked to produce. The workers work in a goverment facility. That profit is spended by the goverment for new schools, roads, buildings

etc.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Alright, so a few problems I've seen here, first of all I'm awestruck by the people comparing Open-Source (an INFINITE resource) to things like grain, and beef (FINITE resources)

Communism in my view does not work, for reasons greater than just human nature, there is simply not enough room on earth to produce the kinds of mass goods necessary to keep everyone living a decent life, money on marketing does not really translate to goods, if you take 1 trillion from advertising and invest it into food production, you'll still be limited by things like the reproduction rate of cattle, the time it takes for agricultural resources like vegetables to grow, so on and so forth.

While Capitalism is wasteful, the competition creates a higher quality in the products produced in a Capitalist country as opposed to a Communist country, things like Quality tests, Disease Control would suffer as a result of the frenetic production of goods necessary to feed to whole world and keep everyone happy and as such a Communist country is much more likely to suffer from widespread disease.

However, it is my opinion that Communism is not meant to be applied Worldwide, but rather in small communities, that's why in Communism there is no concept of Nation or Land.

Also, the Russian government was not single-handedly responsible for the killings of Christians and burning of churches in Russia, Marx himself was extremely opposed to the concept of Religion that he blamed for a large part of the world's suffering, it's very difficult to change the whole religious view of a nation overnight without somekind of persecution and the forced closing of any kind of religious building.

In a way, you cannot truly eliminate religion without repression and violence, and even then it takes decades for the remnants of it to fully dissipate.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Communism is not "Bad". But I hate it. It does not give anyone any rights. It takes them all away. If you have freedom and rights, your are responsible for what you do and what you decide to do, right or wrong. You are responsible for your success and your failure. Too many immature people assume that their failure is due to the "MAN". Their failures are due to their weaknesses, their successes are due to how they use their own strengths in concert with their weaknesses and the natural unfairness of what they have and don't have and too still succeed. Freedom gives everyone rights but no privledges, we ALL have to earn privledges, no matter what. Humans are not born equal. Although we wish we were. This is not the family you are born into (rich or poor). For example, if someone wants to be a pro-basketball player but he is 5'2" he is unlikely to beat out a man 7'2" tall. He can do it but it is unfair. He will have to be the very best 5'2" player ever. It is unlikely to succeeed. So he may not be a pro basketball player but he might be a great mathematician because of the skills of logic he was fortunate to have. The pro basketball player that is 7'2" may not have those math skills so he may never be a mathematician (he might have those skills and then he has to make the choice-democracy). So people aren't born equal. Not a single one of us. So what, in a democracy those unequalnesses do not hold you back from succeeding, they do funnel you towards doing what is best for you, if you take the responsibility to do it. There is no "MAN". There is ONLY YOU. Communism allows everyone to follow the same rules that the "leaders" or the "MAN" make and we all have to equally follow them and be equally rewarded whether we do anything or not. Whatever the "MAN's" rules may or may not be, we must follow and we cannot change them. They are also responsible for us like a mom and dad are responsible for their children in a democracy. Under communist rule, all decisions are made for you. If you work hard and do well and give everything to everyone that doesn't work, can't work or works less than you do, for whatever reason you are a good communist. There are no incentives to do better. There is no incentive to help anyone either. The "MAN" helps everyone. Just like in Cuba or China. They are great examples if you love communism. Hippies loved communism. If you do too well in China, they take everything from you, possibly kill you for being a traitor because you worked too hard. In a democracy, you have to be more self reliant and self responsible. So doing well is hard but, you can do better in a democracy than in a communist state, unless you are selected to be one of the communist dictator-like the leaders. Then you will do well. I prefer being responsible for myself, succeeding on my own and with the help of others that I also help we grow richer and stronger. That was America. We have moved forward towards socialism and communism.

Side: Americans don't want equality
JoFlyAg21(16) Clarified
1 point

Wow... What you lack in knowledge you somewhat make-up in common sense. But HERE is a link to the entire Communist Manifesto!

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/61/61.txt

Communism isn't BAD.. IT IS PURE EVIL.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Communism is a choice that Americans voted for on November 6, 2012. We had the right to vote for communism and socialism and Americans did. Americans now like communism and socialism. It gives "The MAN" control to force everyone to be equal even though no one really is. In Democracy we all have the right to be whatever we want to be but, that is controlled by what we actually are and what we are willing to do. We decide, we struggle and we succeed. Not "the MAN". In communism and socialism, the MAN DID IT. The MAN built it. In democracy, you and the people you help and they help to succeed, succeed. This occurs by self discipline, choice and the tenacity to do it.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Must have hit a sore spot. They removed my post. Truth isn't very much liked in the USA anymore.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

WE SHOULD ASK THE PEOPLE OF NORTH KOREA OR CUBA TO ANSWER................................OH WAIT THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Because democratic socialism is better. .

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Communism isn't technically a bad thing... the "bad" communism that most people know is a corrupt screwed up version called Maoism, that and Stalinism. Marxism, Communism, and Leninism were good things. The word Communism comes from the Latin word "Communis" which literally means "shared" or "belonging to all". if I were to give an example of what Communism is: If I wanted to start a small business, the government would say "Sure, let us construct the building for you, and help start it up too!... For Free" in actual Communism everything is shared and free.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Americans consider communism bad because

A) When everybody shares, they all lose their incentive to work, meaning everyone shares a lot less than most people have under capitalism

B) Communism will almost always yield a dictator who lives like a king, when his people starve. That's kind of like what America was like before the revolution, though it wasn't as extreme. King George was just a jerk, rather than a ruthless executioner.

Winston Churchill gave a quote about communism, going something like: "capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth, whereas communism is the equal sharing of complete misery.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Communism is the majority race's best friend in any country. True communism where a dictator is in place and a two party Pollitt bureau style government system of, both, liberal and conservative is a sure fire way to rid a society of "undesirables". Conservative communists known as "hardline communists" always end up with control of true communist countries. Stalin, for example, was a staunch hardline communist and ended up killing more than 35 million of his political enemies within a 25 year time frame. The things that make a socialist states ( communist country ) tempting for many Americans is because once you come to look at the itemized issues that communism solves even the most anti-communist begins to soften. In a proper socialist state minorities are drummed out and oppressed ( murdered and imprisoned ) special interests like "Gay rights" would be a thing of the past under a proper socialist state. Morality is strictly enforced in a proper socialist ( communist ) state. Freedoms are removed from the general populace in order to instill "the state over individual want and need" mindsets in people and to do away with individualism and personal intellect. This is so that every one understands clearly that there is no one or no thing above the state. This also builds strength rather than weakness in people in a communist ( proper socialist ) state. Drug dealers are publicly executed in a proper socialist state, a able body man or woman that will not pull there own weight for the state are publicly executed, etc, etc, etc. just as it is in modern day China. The former Union of Soviet Socialist Republics ( U.S.S.R. ) under hardline communist leaders went as far as to ban "foreign languages" from many of their cities streets by deeming non Slavic languages as "enemy behavior" and "spying against the state". Men and women could be taken from there homes without warrants and imprisoned without trial for their liberal anti-socialist ( anti-hardline ) views. In a proper socialist state like in the former U.S.S.R. the secret police could arrest and imprison anyone, anytime, anywhere for the smallest of offenses. The reasons many Americans love the thought of communism is because liberals actually believe that it works out best for them and their side, but in truth communism works out best for conservatives and the GOP whether communism gets off to a slow start in America or not. Liberals truly believe that communism ( socialism ) is meant to help poor people and minorities when, in fact, it is meant to favor the hard working, the strong, the authoritarian type and the ruthlessly brutal. Marxism its self is a "only the strong survive" outlook. The reason that so many Nationalist Socialists favor this form of government is because they know that it favors whites in a majority white nation and that every one else ( minorities ) will suffer and suffer badly. This is why I never could understand why blacks in America were so big on communism because it will mean their ultimate end. University grads fresh out of college with a twisted view of communism don't understand the nature of communism even though they seem to back the notion the most in the U.S. If you've ever visited the Communist Party U.S.A.'s website you'll see youtube video where Gay men and women think that communism is all the rave, but they too would be considered enemies in a proper socialist state. The reasons we know that minorities and special interest groups would be enemies of the state in an American communist system is because of "Hardline Communist" views and as stated above hardline communists always end up with all the power in a socialist state. Only an idiot would believe that hardline communist wouldn't end up with control of a communist system in the U.S. and only vain shallow liberals would believe that they themselves would not be top on the list of enemies of the state in a communist U.S.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

I have yet to see Communism give anyone equal rights. China is a prime example.

I don't know who said it, but some people would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Communism is an idealism, not a reality. It is unlikely that it will ever be. It is a shame that this is the case but it is still a reality which must be lived with. American's in particular only dislike communism due to the fact that when they had majority of power, it was challenged by the other superpower at the time, Russia. It is not so much about communism as nationalism.

Side: Americans don't want equality

they have been brainwashed by the capitalist's that rule them.

if you went around the states with a camera and mic and questioned americans on what is communism / what are the pros/cons....most would sound like idiots.

Side: Americans don't want equality
1 point

Republicans are not any better, they are just opposite extreme .

Side: Americans don't want equality

It's just something that has been indoctrinated into children's minds that Communism is bad.

Side: Americans don't want equality
0 points

The simple argument towards why American are against communism is it doesn't stand for the basic fundamentals that America was founded on. Communism is based on society in which the government has complete control over its people. The heritage of freedome is so strong within the American people it would take generations to institute communism in America.

Side: Americans don't want equality
Mahollinder(898) Disputed
3 points

Please don't confuse totalitarian regimes with Communism, just because some totalitarian regimes used "Communism" as a title for their experiment. Communism is antithetical to large government.

Side: Americans don't want equality

Are you saying that the Russian Communist government was smaller than U.S. government. How about China's Communist government?

Side: Americans don't want equality
JoFlyAg21(16) Clarified
1 point

Communism is SUPER SIZE Government.

It is telling you what you can/cannot do down to the smallest detail. What you read, say and eventually.. WHAT YOU CAN THINK!

Please educate yourself.

Communist Manifesto

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/61/61.txt

Side: Americans don't want equality
lupusFati(790) Disputed
1 point

They're not. In order for Communism to even have a chance of being effective, it's required to put the government in charge of everything. How else would the wealth, food, etc be distributed among the people 'equally'?

Though despite the efforts initially made at Communism in any government, it inevitably breaks down into a totalitarian regime. It is the natural evolution of the theory due to one significant but often overlooked variable: human nature.

Side: Americans don't want equality
casper3912(1581) Disputed
2 points

Communism is founded upon the same and similar principles as America was. There is a reason why communists were partially allied with democrats(different people then current American party) during the time of Marx.

Life, liberty and property; and obviously the pursuit of happiness. Capitalism means the average persons life is that of the wage slave, limiting their right to their own life and liberty. Most people also will not own much property and be limited on pursuing their happiness.

Side: Americans don't want equality