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 Why do left wingers claim the commies but not the national socialsts? (43)

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Why do left wingers claim the commies but not the national socialsts?

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Why do left wingers claim the commies but not the national socialsts?

"National socialism" was a form of far right fascism which Hitler falsely associated with socialism because he was trying to win votes.

Did you believe everything Hitler said? Or just the bits about socialism? Did you also believe him about all the Jews needing to die?

PowerForce(50) Disputed
0 points

"National socialism" was a form of far right fascism which Hitler falsely associated with socialism because he was trying to win votes.

Words are one thing, but reality is another. You can argue that Hitler was lying to win votes, but either way National Socialism and "far right fascism" manifest themselves just like any other kind of socialism does... with the state owning everything and killing a lot of people.

Did you believe everything Hitler said?

Rhetoric is one thing, but socialists promote the ideology that always ends up manifesting as fascism despite your best efforts to make it sound like the opposite. So yes, I believe Hitler when he claims to be the thing that always leads to dictatorship and state sponsored mass killings but not when he says it's about tolerance and equality and unicorns and rainbows.

You just don't understand Nom. Hitler WAS lying when he claimed to be a socialist. Not about being a socialist, but about socialism meaning what every socialist says it means until it's implemented and kills millions of people.

2 points

Words are one thing, but reality is another.

The reality is that you are agreeing with Hitler and rejecting the work of every political scientist who has ever researched Nazi politics. That's good enough reason for me to ignore you.

2 points

Communism is a political term, Socialism is a economical term. Therefor, socialism can be "integrated" into ANY political entity. I would never support a communistic entity! I would never support a completely socialistic entity. I DO support a combined socialist/capitalist/Democratic entity that works for the PEOPLE, not just the FEW!

So called "National Socialists" are a political group of the worst kind! NAZI's, any way you spell it! THAT'S WHY left wingers do not "claim" either! Any more Putinesgue propaganda you would like to spread??? :-(

PowerForce(50) Disputed
1 point

Communism is a political term, Socialism is a economical term.

Communism is a type of socialism. Do you not know your own ideology?

AlofRI(2861) Clarified
1 point

Better than YOU, apparently ! ;-)

2 points

"National socialism" was an attempt by the far right to hijack the socialist label, as at the time socialism was inextricably linked with ideas of policies that were for the people, not the elite (think monarchies and hereditary lordship etc). But the difference is that true socialism is intrinsically democratic: it works from the bottom upwards. The populace control the means of production and exchange ie. they direct the economy. But in a "national socialist" or "Nazi" framework, the authoritarian government control all aspects of life, under the guise of "for the people".

Left wing socialism is democratic, and puts power in the hands of the many. Nazism is anti-democratic, and puts the power in the hands of the few. The only thing "socialist" about Nazism is the name.

The far right, from Oswald Mosley to Hitler to Mussolini, have always attempted to claim "the will of the people", and that they "speak for the many", when actually, the people become pawns in a political coup that sees their rights and values distorted and stolen.

True socialism does not take power from the many, it gives it to them.

"National socialism" was an attempt by the far right to hijack the socialist label, as at the time socialism was inextricably linked with ideas of policies that were for the people, not the elite

Buddy, you are absolutely correct but he already knows this. The OP is a FactMachine alt. He entertains himself by pretending to have opinions he doesn't actually have, so that he can troll people like you and I who come here to debate. Just like a child, what he wants is attention.

seanB(959) Disputed
2 points

I call it the disingenuous strawman. It's the guy playing the Devil's Advocate with no horns, trying to convince people of something he doesn't believe himself.

I don't get why people can't just be honest with themselves and others anymore. I, and my family and general, have the knack of cutting through the bullshit. But it seems like even then, people nowadays wear the cognitive dissonance to completely ignore logical schema like badge of honour.

1 point

National Socialism cannot exactly be identified as 'Left'. Leftists can only claim the legacy of Communist regimes in Russia, Eastern Europe, and Latin America because these were the only regimes that directly descended from Marxian thoughts and ideas (although these regimes came up with customized versions of Communism to suit their own agendas). An important thing to note here is that these regimes eventually wanted to achieve a classless and stateless societies, but had a state system. The existence of the state in these countries under the Communists can only be justified under the context of the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat' and the eventual de-alienation of the Proletariat. Therefore, there is a justification to the existence of the state, which however turned out to be very controversial. On the other hand we also have the more liberal leftists of the Western Europe and the United States who are 'Democratic Socialists', Democratic Socialism is a more liberal form of leftism which supports democratic means of achieving socialism without a bloody revolution. It is not right to identify Democratic Socialism of the West as pure leftism due to the fact that Democratic Socialism doesn't outright condemn private property and also doesn't have a strong anti-state agenda. Democratic Socialists believe in a more gradual transformation to an era of socialism with communal ownership of capital. The Nazis were supporters of a strong state, pro-industry, and also strong believers in cultural-religions identities. Being cultural nationalists, the Nazis contradicted Marxian positions on religion. The Nazis also allowed private ownership of capital and pursued mercantile ideas of economic prosperity. Therefore it is impossible for the 'Leftists' of the modern world to identity themselves with 'National Socialists' and 'Democratic Socialists'.

4 points

National Socialism cannot exactly be identified as 'Left'.

Lol. It's the precise political opposite of the left according to just about every historical scholar and/or political scientist who ever had any credibility. But somehow you interpret that as "not exactly" the left? That's hilarious. Nobody of any intelligence is going to care what you write after beginning with a line like that. You should stop jabbering. The Nazis were as far right as it is possible to be. Every single white supremacist and neo-Nazi group on the face of the planet is on the far right. "Not exactly" the left, huh?

Lol. What a joke.

PowerForce(50) Disputed
-3 points

I am center-left, not far-left, so I don't know if you are telling the truth.