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I still believe in a God and not for the sore purpose of "just in case". You ether fully believe or you don't. You don't believe "just in case" that it's true.
Ignorant comment. Can you read? He wasn't banned for disagreeing with anything. He was banned for missing the point of the debate even after I tried to explain it to him and you are banned for butting in on something that is none of your business. Do you think you are a mod on this site or something? You are NOT!
Its actually none of your business why he was banned. And what does your argument have to do with this debate? NOTHING! If you got a thing for Srom fine but dont do it on my debate. YOU are banned for not knowing your place.
I believe but even if I wasnt sure I would still practice my religion just in case whats the harm if I'm wrong? None. But if I'm right I'll be happy in the long run.
Wait... You believe in God, just because he might be real? Well, that's a dumb reason. You're basically saying, "A lot of that stuff in the Bible doesn't add up, but I'm going to believe all of it anyways. I ain't riskin' being sent to that fiery torture chamber called Hell!".
Do you believe in all of the other religions as well, you know... Just in case?
He really didn't ever say that. You took that out of context. He said:
"I believe but even if I wasnt sure I would still practice my religion just in case whats the harm if I'm wrong? None. But if I'm right I'll be happy in the long run."
I believe, but ...
Also, about your claim up there about: "A lot of that stuff in the Bible doesn't add up, but I'm going to believe all of it anyways. I ain't riskin' being sent to that fiery torture chamber called Hell!"
If you don't take things out of context and actually think critically about the Scripture as a whole, it makes sense. Presuppositions get in the way, though, and... Well, it can be bad when that happens.
Is it not wrong to judge other people based on their beliefs? I mean, I won't call you silly. Why would you call me that? It's hurtful. You call me ignorant, and I must ask you this question: How did the universe begin without an uncaused cause that works outside of our laws of physics and time? See, it's at that point that you get to where you cannot test what happened with simple experiments. So, with that logic, my God is much more viable than an unproved unintelligent being.
Are you serious? I admit I can't explain how our universe came to be. I follow what theories science gives us. But don't you find it ironic that you also can't explain how an all powerful, all knowing, loving spirit came out of an uncaused cause that works outside of our laws of physics and time? And don't come with that nonsense "Gods preexisting." Because I can say the same about the universe. But then at the same time I feel bad for you since you don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster. I hope you find your way to him.
There are lots of things wrong with this. I'll start with you stating you follow what theories "science" gives you. You actually follow what theories scientists give you.
Second, the statement about irony in respect to God existing eternally. The law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The only two responses to this would be a creator of the universe, or a cyclic universe. However, this implies that the universe would expand and retract constantly. This isn't correct because we watch free energy to deplete. So, when the free energy completely depletes, the universe would not just randomly begin to contract and free up all of the energy. So, this implies that something created the universe, and the two choices are personal or impersonal. An impersonal would never be provable as it would show no evidence in the universe. However, a personal being would most likely give ample evidence, which I believe He has.
But then at the same time I feel bad for you since you don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster. I hope you find your way to him.
It's always funny to me how an atheist will throw out the "FSM." See, you're comparing a nonphysical being who works out of time and physics to one who obviously works inside of time and physics(since he can ONLY fly, as is always said), is composed of organic matter, and obviously was created, as pasta, sauce, and meatballs(if he has either sauce and meatballs) were invented by man. Also, he's called a MONSTER. You guys really didn't think this through very well. You just wanted to mock us. And right now, you're failing at it.
Well, that actually makes his argument even dumber. He apparently thinks that pretending to be a Christian, even if he doesn't believe, will get him into Heaven... But what is the ONE rule to get into Heaven? Believe!
If you don't take things out of context and actually think critically about the Scripture as a whole, it makes sense.
Ugh... Please go read my arguments with Idiotobx, JaeB, and Tim17. I've been defending Christianity a lot lately, but there is still a lot that doesn't add up. For example, if God is all-knowing, why did he call out to Adam, "where are you?", in the Garden of Eden?
Presuppositions get in the way, though, and... Well, it can be bad when that happens.
It's not the presuppositions that get in the way, it's the clear contradictions between Old and New Testament.
I often describe God as a father. He wants you to come to Him, not He have to look for you. I'm sure He knew exactly where Adam was.
It's not the presuppositions that get in the way, it's the clear contradictions between Old and New Testament.
Nah... See, when people have presuppositions against Christianity, what they'll do is look for contradictions and take whatever they can out of context.
I often describe God as a father. He wants you to come to Him, not He have to look for you. I'm sure He knew exactly where Adam was.
Usually when I want someone to come to me, I don't say, "where are you?".
Nah... See, when people have presuppositions against Christianity, what they'll do is look for contradictions and take whatever they can out of context.
And Christians often use that sort of excuse to defend the contradictions.
Okay, first: You see every in the Bible God wanting people to confess their sins to Him and repent. You hear it everyday. Why would Adam be different? He just gained the knowledge of what was right and what was wrong, and so he knew what he did was wrong.
And in how many of those instances did God say, "where are you?"
I cannot say with 100% certainty that God's question was not rhetorical, just like you cannot say with certainty that it was. That's the thing with the Bible. It's very ambiguous, and as often as people may claim that they know exactly what it means, they really do not. They just have confidence in their interpretation.
We can debate these interpretations, that is fine, but we should also agree that either interpretation could be correct. If you are willing to accept that, then you should be able to see the big picture, which is that much of the Bible is as easily open to interpretation as God's question to Adam. You can have faith in your interpretation of Christianity, and who is to say that you are wrong... But at the same time, who can say that you are right?
The belief that Christians have is that if I believe in the wrong God I am going to hell as well. I am banking on them not knowing the correct God, and making sure I don't worship the wrong one.
You have terrible odds though. There have been thousands of Gods in history that you are saying are not the true God. Just don't worry about being wrong and live a good wholesome life. If it is another God, He will probably be lenient.
1) it assumes belief is a switch one can flip on and off. It is not. It is a not a matter of will but the unconscious acceptance of truth.
2) it's a false, dichotomy as in, it ignores all other alternatives. What about Hinduism? What about Wiccas goddess? These are just as likely as god and the same question can be applied to them.
3) it ignores the question reversed. What if believers are wrong? It assumes there's no reasons not to believe. There are: greater critical thinking, no fear of hell, no feeling of being a useless, pathetic sinner, greater faith in humanity, free Sundays, ect.
4) it is no reason to believe in anything. Something only warrants belief if it has evidence supporting it and can stand up to criticism. NOT because you're playing it safe just in case of some wack near impossibility.
Note: When I say god, I often refer to the Christian/Jewish/Islam deity.
I know this because the attributes given to god by believers are impossible (ie omnipotent, omni benevolent, etc). There are also the other arguments too, such as this one.
Yeah, but believers often claim stuff that isn't even in their religious text. The verses addressing God's omnipotence, omniscience, and Omni benevolence, are all pretty ambiguous. For example, Matthew 19:17 is often credited towards God being all-loving, "So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Do you remember what I said in one of my earlier arguments with you?
Good= To obey God or be like God
Evil= To disobey God or to sin
God cannot disobey himself, therefore he can't be evil... He can only be good. And as for the statement that "no one is good but One, that is, God", well that would be true if God is real, because everyone has sinned.
Yeah, but believers often claim stuff that isn't even in their religious text. The verses addressing God's omnipotence, omniscience, and Omni benevolence, are all pretty ambiguous. For example, Matthew 19:17 is often credited towards God being all-loving, "So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Majority of theists still believe that their god is omnipotent/omni-benevolent/omniscient. Even if it isn't in their cult book, they claim it to be true. My argument is that their god is not real because their claims are impossible. Also, I am curious as to why you defend theists so much when you yourself are not one.
God cannot disobey himself, therefore he can't be evil... He can only be good
So let me get this straight, God can slaughter every fucking child on this Earth and not be evil because he isn't "disobeying himself"? What is wrong with you?
And as for the statement that "no one is good but One, that is, God", well that would be true if God is real, because everyone has sinned.
Right... so a newborn baby has sinned. Every dog has sinned. Every one year old child has sinned. We are all going to fucking hell. Are you sure you aren't Christian?
Majority of theists still believe that their god is omnipotent/omni-benevolent/omniscient. Even if it isn't in their cult book, they claim it to be true.
Well, no shit! A lot of them also think the devil is red and has horns. What is your point?
Also, I am curious as to why you defend theists so much when you yourself are not one.
I like to defend the underdogs, I guess. This site is loaded with liberals and atheists, so I've been arguing in favor of conservatives and theists lol. I also dispute overly-confident theists. Basically, I don't agree with the closed-mindedness and the presumptuousness of a lot of users.
I think you're missing the point though... I'm not really defending theists, I'm just pointing out the flaws in your arguments. It's not that I don't agree that the Bible is full of contradictions and fables, it's just that you're pointing out the wrong stuff. There's really no excuse for that. The entire Bible is available online for free in many different translations. Before you jump to conclusions, it might be smart to check out some verses first and see if you actually have a good point.
So let me get this straight, God can slaughter every fucking child on this Earth and not be evil because he isn't "disobeying himself"? What is wrong with you?
Assuming that God isn't real, then good and evil are just subjective terms. What you consider to be evil, others may not. Slaughtering innocent people is definitely evil in my book, but if God exists, then those terms are no longer subjective. Good would literally mean to obey God or be like God, and evil would be the opposite. If that is not the case and God can actually be evil, then that implies that there is a power greater than him.
Killing innocents would still seem wrong to us, but God can't disobey himself... So how could it be considered evil, unless you were only using the term subjectively?
Right... so a newborn baby has sinned.
Hey, I didn't write the Bible! I'm only telling you what I think it means.
Do babies have free will? They aren't very intelligent... So how could they obey or disobey God?
Every dog has sinned.
Lol wtf? Animals don't have any knowledge of God. As the Bible says, man rules over animals... God rules over man.
Every one year old child has sinned.
Again, you're bringing up a child who cannot comprehend the notion of a god.
We are all going to fucking hell.
Didn't I already tell you that the purpose of Jesus dying was so that all sins can be forgiven? The only way people will end up in hell is if they don't believe.
Are you sure you aren't Christian?
If you actually understood the reason why I am arguing with you, then you wouldn't be saying that.
Well, no shit! A lot of them also think the devil is red and has horns. What is your point?
My point is that the god they are describing and worshipping is impossible.
Assuming that God isn't real, then good and evil are just subjective terms
So there needs to be a god for there to be good and evil?
Do babies have free will? They aren't very intelligent... So how could they obey or disobey God?
You stated in your previous argument that everyone has sinned.
Again, you're bringing up a child who cannot comprehend the notion of a god.
You said if god was real, everyone would be a sinner.
Didn't I already tell you that the purpose of Jesus dying was so that all sins can be forgiven? The only way people will end up in hell is if they don't believe.
Cool! I'm going to fucking commit genocide; and since I believe in god, I'm not going to hell. Remember all you rapists and murderers, as long as you believe, you will go to heaven.
My point is that the god they are describing and worshipping is impossible.
Why?
So there needs to be a god for there to be good and evil?
For there to be a universal code of what is good and what is evil, yes. If he doesn't exist, as you believe, then good and evil are just terms based on opinion.
You stated in your previous argument that everyone has sinned.
Yeah... Everyone that is capable of sin, is guilty if the Christian god is real.
You said if god was real, everyone would be a sinner.
Well, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Cool! I'm going to fucking commit genocide; and since I believe in god, I'm not going to hell.
General Buttnaked (yeah, that's his name lol) is an ex-general from Africa who is guilty of genocide and cannibalism... He is now a Christian pastor.
Adam and Eve introduced good and evil to the human race, as well as death. If Eve had not eaten the forbidden fruit, genocide would not be occurring. I guess by God forgiving everyone, he is acknowledging that humans are flawed and that their sins would have never occurred if it weren't for Adam and Eve eating the fruit.
You are what people call agnostic, you are not sure and I can understand, I myself cant prove one way or another, however I am sure that all religious Gods are wrong and not true, but as for a creator I am not sure.
At first I was going to disagree, but I think you make a good point. I was thinking, "no, they don't believe in the FSM because they know He doesn't exi-, oh dang, that's the same for Atheists"
I don't think I can truly change my belief simply by active choice. There have been times when I was spiritual and did believe in supernatural premises such as souls and the afterlife. There have been times when I have searched for easy answers and hoped very deeply that I could find them in spirituality. There have also been times when I was fervently opposed to any religious concept, where I viewed an active belief in such things to be not only baseless, but rather ludicrous and anachronistic. These days I have an affection for some spiritual practices and beliefs, but I do not think any of them are likely to be true, certainly not how they are presented. And I simply cannot place my faith in any Gods.
My beliefs have changed somewhat, my spirituality waxing and waning as I've aged and gone through different environments. But it was never an active choice on my part. It was a response to the world around me, the people I knew, the things I learned, my ever fluctuating emotional state. I could even fake it and convince people around me that I believe in things that I do not or vice versa. But I could never fool myself. I would always know, deep down, what I believe and don't.
And if God is real, he will know heart even better than I, right? If I can't fool myself, I surely cannot fool God.
Not only are there thousands of other Gods who have existed as Cartman said but there are many different interpretations of the same God (the Abrahamic one) and you have no idea which is right so for all you know Christianity could have been a load of bollocks and Islam could have been the one true faith and you end up going to Hell anyway.
You may as well live your life to the full without obeying any dogmatic belief system.
No. This "God" focuses on if being gay is a sin, while over the 2,000 years Christianity lived, there were multiple Genocides and wars. Count all the people that died, it reaches Billions. So if this "God" was real, the Holocaust and Native American Genocide would have never happened.
No... God does not focus on homosexuality. He says that a LOT of things are sin - bestiality, sleeping around, disobeying your parents, etc.
while over the 2,000 years Christianity lived, there were multiple Genocides and wars. Count all the people that died, it reaches Billions. So if this "God" was real, the Holocaust and Native American Genocide would have never happened.
No... See, you're doing it again. You're saying that evil is what God wants. Evil provides a choice of whether to do good or evil. If God wanted puppets, He would've created puppets.
Which god are you speaking of? There's thousands of gods and if you're talking about the Christian god well there's different attributes of him in each religion.
There has been many gods from many religions. But the question is, if any God or Deities exist, why can't we see them? Why is there NO evidence of their existence.
Ok, and? Strictly speaking, the Islamic, Jewish, and Christian Gods are one and the same; Yahweh, the God of Abraham. Schisms formed first dividing Judaism and Islam, and later dividing Judaism and Christianity.
That said, when one refers to ones deity as 'God' the Jewish/Christian faith is generally assumed, as the majority of religions don't refer to their deity as just 'God.' Similarly, when 'Allah' is used, Islam is presumed, because aside from the odd individual here and there (like yourself, I suppose?), only Muslimas refer to their deity as Allah. It doesn't invalidate the point I was making in any way...
Yes it does. All Arabic monotheists use the term Allah when they refer to God in the Arabic language. I have been studying linguistics since I was 16, so I know what I am talking about.
Yes it does what, exactly? Invalidate my point? No. At best it's a nit-pick, and a fallacious one to boot. It's obvious to anyone who reads- yourself included, that when I stated 'Allah' as opposed to 'God' in the original debate, that I was referring to the Muslim faith as opposed to the Christian and Jewish ones. If only because I'm not using 'Allah' in an Arabic sentence, but an English one
And you're right by saying that 'All Arabic monotheists use the term Allah...' However, the overwhelmingly vast majority of Arabic monotheists are Muslim. Muslims make up an even larger overwhelming majority of those who use the term 'Allah' when otherwise speaking English. The remainder, who would use the term 'Allah' to describe another deity (or the jewish/christian interpretation of the same one) are an all-but-negligible minority amongst Arabs, and a smaller minority still use it as a word for god when otherwise speaking English. Referring to them as the 'odd individual here and there' is entirely accurate. Our statements regarding Allah do not contradict one another.
Either way there are many different gods out there. It like trying to win the big money. You may not win. And some people just wants to live life with out trying to win big money.
