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1
8
True. Wait..., what? NO!!!
Debate Score:9
Arguments:10
Total Votes:10
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 True. (1)
 
 Wait..., what? NO!!! (7)

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joecavalry(40163) pic



Women should take responsibility for SOMETHING!!!

If a woman wears clothing that exposes\enhances her cleavage and a man stares at, or jokes about, said cleavage, he's labeled a "misogynist."

If a man gets a woman pregnant an he doesn't want the child, but the woman does, he is forced to pay child support for 18 years.

If a man gets a woman pregnant and he wants the child, but the woman does not, she is NOT forced to grin and bare it for 9 months.  Instead, he is forced to live with her decision to abort.

In nearly all instances, the man is held responsible for his actions.  Women..., not so much.

Children are usually not held responsible for their actions because they lack the mental capacity to understand the situation.  This is why children are not usually tried as an adult when they murder someone.

By not taking responsibility for their actions, women portray themselves as children.  They even call themselves, "girls."

If women want to be treated with respect, they need to "man up" and start taking responsibility for their actions.

True.

Side Score: 1
VS.

Wait..., what? NO!!!

Side Score: 8

Women can start taking responsibility for their action by admitting when they put on too much or too little mayonnaise on the sandwich ;)

Side: True.
joecavalry(40163) Clarified
0 points

Basically, they should take responsibility for anything that happens in the kitchen ;)

Side: True.
2 points

From the look of your case, you are clearly biased. Women already take responsibility for many things and are just as responsible as men in most cases. However, because women are still unconsciously treated as inferiors by men, they can be subject to condescending sympathy when they make mistakes. In spite of this, many women are brave enough to admit that they did something wrong. If you only see women as irresponsible brats, you are clearly spending time around bad examples of the female gender.

Side: Wait..., what? NO!!!
1 point

oh my god. people on the other side dont think so? really? we ladies have to take care of love children sisters brothers family , we babysit kids we dont know, we have to go throught the pain of HAVING the child. and you guys think we do NTHIN! i agree with @PixieGirl. GIRLS DO ALOT OF THINGS I DIDNT EVEN MENTION HALF OF THEM

Side: Wait..., what? NO!!!

Please see my reply to @PixieGirl to get the rest of the story ;)

Side: Wait..., what? NO!!!

I was referring to this article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/06/technology/technologys-man-problem.html

Apparently Ms. Shevinsky and Mr. Dickinson were business partners in a start-up called Glimpse Labs. He was always respectful towards her.

Then some dudes created an app called, "Titstare; an app where you take photos of yourself staring at tits." Those dudes took heat for their app. Mr. Dickinson apparently "defended" the app against accusations of misogyny. “It is not misogyny to tell a sexist joke, or to fail to take a woman seriously, or to enjoy boobies.”

Ms. Shevinsky took offense and quit Glimpse Labs. Glimpse Labs is an app where a woman can take a naked selfie of herself and send it to a man and be assured that he would not be able to photograph the screen or take a screen capture before the image erases itself. I guess Ms. Shevinsky did not want women to take responsibility for their naked selfies.

Now, it seems to me that the joke was directed at women who put their boobies on display but don't want any of the responsibility that comes with that, like boobie jokes. Ms. Shevinsky should not have been offended by the boobie jokes because, like most typical engineers, she wears t-shirts that cover up her cleavage (the joke was not directed at her). Also, as you can see from the picture, she has little, if any, cleavage. ;)

I work with professional women who have my respect. I also have had the displeasure of dealing with irresponsible brats. If I make a joke about the irresponsible brats, I do not expect a professional woman to come to her defense. A professional woman should point out to the irresponsible brat that her bratty behavior is giving women a bad name. To defend bratty behavior is to condone bratty behavior and that is counter productive to the female gender.

In a nut shell, I find Ms. Shevinsky to be quite hypocritical by working on an app that facilitates bratty behavior (girls being girls) and at the same time is offended by and app created by some dudes that also facilitates bratty behavior (boys being boys). I don't see why the onus is always on the man. I think both genders should share the responsibility.

I suspect that when women start sharing the blame, men will stop unconsciously treating women as inferiors, and stop subjecting them to condescending sympathy when they make mistakes.

But hey, that's just me ;)

Side: Wait..., what? NO!!!
joecavalry(40163) Clarified
1 point

I think that most women would agree that it is detrimental (counter productive) to the female gender to have girls posting selfies of their cleavage. If that were not the case, why do women call them sluts? ;)

Side: True.
1 point

I disagree. Men have abdicated their divine authority over their children and their wives, as well as leadership in culture. We are still going to be held responsible in the end... No matter what the law and the world says, it is still you being judged.

What needs to happen is men need to step up and stop giving up control.

Side: Wait..., what? NO!!!

I'm completely sympathetic towards the males that are disenfranchised by the bad joke that passes for paternal rights in most of the US.

It's certainly an unfair situation when the ultimate decision regarding the fate of a potential child is in the hands of the mother, with no input whatsoever from the father; there is no denying that much of it.

But the problem lies in the fact that there is no way to handle this equally. Barring a thought exercise that I'm tentatively calling 'schrodingers womb,' the same fetus cannot be successfully aborted and brought to term. Given that there are only two parties involved, if they disagree it is a deadlock. Deciding this in the mans favor- in either scenario- involves subjecting the women to something extremely invasive; either the physical and emotional trauma involved in having an unwanted abortion, or all of the physiological, mental, and emotional stuff associated with carrying an unwanted child to term. Deciding this in the woman's favor- again, in either scenario- does not involve an invasion anywhere near the level of what the woman would go through.

In other words, if things were 'equal' in this regard, it would in fact be oppressive towards women. This is an unfortunate effect of the differences between the sexes, and it's not an ideal situation for either party in general.

And really, only one of the scenarios is particularly bad for the man- having to provide ongoing lifelong support to an unwanted child. In the case where the man wants to keep the child, well... there are plenty of women out there who want to be mothers; doesn't it make more sense to break things off with a woman who strongly disagrees with you on such a key issue in a romantic relationship? The only exception I could see to this would be if the man had an extremely low sperm count and thought himself to be sterile; in that case, I believe the mans position warrants further consideration.

Ultimately, this is the kind of situation that should simply be prevented from arising. The way I see it, birth control is the responsibility of anybody and everybody who does not currently want a child- don't just trust your partner for it. It is important to remember that there are men out there who will attempt to get women pregnant on purpose- some out of a misguided attempt to cement a relationship, some out of a more sinister mind using it to control the women, and some simply due to having fetishized conception. It is important to remember that there are women out there who will attempt to get pregnant on purpose for largely the same range of reasons. It is also important to remember that people change, constantly, and that includes ones stance on parenthood- don't just take it for granted that he still doesn't want kids ever because he said so when you met 5 years ago.

If men and women alike were open and up front about their desires regarding parenthood (really, that seems like a big life topic that should be hit on somewhere in the first couple dates anyway), situations where one partner wants children and the other does not could be reduced significantly- leaving the liars and wafflers. If everyone who did not wish to have children - irrespective of gender- took personal responsibility for contraception, the effect of the liars and wafflers could be minimized as well.

Maybe it seems like I'm "victim-blaming" a little bit. In this case, I am, and am not afraid to admit it. While none of this applies to people who have actually been victimized, the overwhelming majority of these cases involve consensual sex between two partners who are aware that there is some kind of a link between this sex thing and babies.

I'll say it again- whether you are a man or a woman, if you do not want children, contraception is YOUR responsibility- not just making sure it's used, but making sure it's used properly. But as I said before I went off on this huge tangient, I can't really get behind the idea of this debate, because there is simply no way to actually do it equally.

Side: Wait..., what? NO!!!

Things I agree with:

I'm completely sympathetic towards the males that are disenfranchised by the bad joke that passes for paternal rights in most of the US.

It's certainly an unfair situation when the ultimate decision regarding the fate of a potential child is in the hands of the mother, with no input whatsoever from the father

Whether you are a man or a woman, if you do not want children, contraception is YOUR responsibility

Here's where I see a way forward:

Women get final say on whether or not to abort.

Men get a final say on whether or not to pay child support. Note that this solution does NOT apply to divorced couples.

Is it terrible that a man would have absolutely no rights to his sperm once it enters a woman's body? Absolutely! He should have thought of that and taken responsibility for contraception.

Is it terrible if a woman is unable to support her child? Absolutely! She should have thought of that and taken responsibility for contraception. It is interesting to note here that her options are more than just abortion. She can put the child up for adoption or solicit help from friends, family and the government.

Currently the onus is on the man. And it doesn't seem to be working very well. If you put the screws to both men AND women then there will be 2 people who should be thinking, "Shit! I can get royally screwed here. I better do something to protect myself."

We need to stop patronizing women and acting as though they are incapable of making decisions. We need to start treating women as responsible adults that can take care of themselves.

But that's just me ;)

Side: Wait..., what? NO!!!