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Hell fucking yes! Religion has done nothing but hold humanity back and cause senseless wars and bigotry around the world. Humanity as a whole would probably be like thousands of years more advanced than we are now if religion never existed.
noo. all religion's main purpose is to manage their people for a life in peace. what makes religion looks bad is the people that don't get the main purpose :)
I highly recommend you replace those 3-2 downvotes made in this debate because you didn't leave a reply on some of them. (There is an Honor code that down voting must have a reply)
And btw, the bible says that "He who curses at their parents must be put to death,"... isn't that a little immoral?
that is an excerpt from the old testament before Jesus came and died for our sins , before this, in the old testament, there were many similar punishments that would be considered severe. However because Jesus died for our sins if we believe in him and ask for forgiveness we are forgiven . but yes when i first read that verse i thought it was a little harsh too , good thing we don't live in those times lol.
The bible is religion, and it represents the largest one at that.
Old Testament does not apply to a Christian's life.
But you can't escape the fact that the Christian God came up with the idea in the first place. Would you see a perfect, omnibenevolent being doing that?
And look- Matthew 5:18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Religion tempered barbarism in the past and is used as an excuse for barbarism in the present. This has less to do with religion, i expect, than the human affinity for barbarism, but still interesting to note.
I'm just talking about scandinavia as an example and they're doing just fine. Whatever Syria has done, it is irrelevant unless you choose to ignore my example.
Different things result to other different things and we already know how much religion has been a massive killer in society.
Take the 9/11 for example, but that is just the tip of the ice berg.
the same way Scandinavia is irrelevant if you choose to ignore my example. Do you know why there wasn't extremism in Syria? Mainly because barely anyone took their book out of context because there are many schools for it. I don't blame 911 on religion I blame it on the extremists. The only problem with today's society is that the Government is becoming corrupt and is not teaching its people probably for example, The Taliban.
so you are going to blame Syria for uprisings? Most of the people support the president. And those "rebels" killed more people than they claim Bashar Al-Assad ever did. Extremists exist for everything. Life was good there and it was very peaceful, now those retarded rebels blew up bus full of innocent people.
I'll be sincere. I have no sentence of Bashar Al-Assad. Before the September 11 attacks, Bush did business with the countries of the Middle East especially Saudi Arabia. Bush did business with the countries of the Middle East, you do not think that these paise is just bunch of rich imperialists? Did not you know that Iraq has always been an imperialist country. The only country that was socialist, was Libya. The rest is all bullshit! And think why that the people are poor and the country is rich. Those are the influences of Middle Eastern monarchical tradition!
Yes, comrade. I believe it was socialist. But atraição of the people has always been that way since the Arab countries were monarchists. This is a backward mentality of Arab politicians who take this depressing tradition. Unfortunately it is difficult to defeat imperialism.
actually, it is not really backward because there are many ministries, assemblies and councils, although the ruler could overlook them, here in UAE, many people love their sheikh, sometimes I feel UAE is a republic.
But the Extremists were still influenced by religion, and they were willing to go to their "Heaven" with their undignified virgins. It was religion that came up with that concept of Heaven.
Unfortunately, Heaven can only be reached through death.
If the world had no religion, we would believe that death is death and that if you decide to bomb a whole lot of people, you won't get any reward, or any virgins- you would just die.
So this would eliminate the main drive that most religious extremists have.
And those extremists will not go to heaven for killing innocent people. Who told you that? Saying I don't want religion because of the extremists is like saying I don't want knives because of murderers.
I don't care whether they went to heaven or not because I do not believe in it.
It's not like they knew they weren't going to heaven- but the concept of religion planted the seed that made them kill many people.
There are many types of extremists in this world, but religious extremists pretty much top the list. If you took away religion from them, what's the use of bombing when you know you are going to gain nothing from it?
Religion breeds extremists- causing the belief that through dying, you can achieve infinite happiness in heaven. This is a powerful tool that could make an extremist out of anyone- especially people with issues or disorders.
Soon-to-be extremists need a strong reason to why they would endanger society. So it would be deemed ignorant to deny the fact that religion can be one of those reasons.
and we can stop extremism even if religion did exist by providing more education. And by teaching them their holy book word by word. They need to know that their religion does not condone their actions.
Is Anyone Forcing Those People To Stick With a religion that they feel does not suit their lives? No, that is personal and we are talking about the world.
Not really, but what the hell does that have to do with reality there is a difference between bigotry and religion. For example, gay marriage, those who don't want gay marriage are actually bigots with a blanket they call religion.
I dont get why when religions faction off the ones that adopt more liberal views get accepted and the ones that regress aren't real Christians (or Muslims or Jews or etc). Actually i do get it; its disowning the crazy uncle because he makes everyone else in the family look bad otherwise, but i think that's unfair. If some religious folk and organizations interpret their religion and their scripture to mean they should oppose gay marriage, who are we to say they aren't religious? Quite the contrary, when religious organizations regress to or support ideas more akin to their savage roots, i still despise them, but i can at least applaud them for sharking off the blanket of tolerance and virtue, for being true to what they are.
Actually you should them religeous right-wing. There are many homosexual Muslims. But I am a little confused with what you are trying to point out in your argument.
Im lost on your first sentence, but my arguemnt is that a religious bigot is not any less religious for his bigotry, not is his interpretation of the religion any less true than, say, a religious community volunteer. Religion tends to accept splinter factions so long as they are benign, but as soon as they make anyone look bad they're not "real" Christians.
there is a lot to be said about rationality and because religion is fundamentally not rational, actions in the world that are based on religiosity are thus not rational insofar as they generally dont do anything - not productive, yet to some people religion is held to be one of the most important things a person can engage in.
Religion was made to help and guide and humans . It is us humans who have found problems in everything including religions .
We fight over something that is the solution to all our problems . If humans we not so selfish and in-tolerant than religion would have made the earth a better place but just because humans fail to live peacefully , the religions are being accused .
In the end earth would be a better place without religion not because of what religions teach us but because of all the wrong things we infer from them .
If the Bible or any other scripture is the direct or indirect word of god, then i think the problem is a god who finds it impossible to simply state what he means. Contradictions, ambiguity, and directives open-to-interpretation don't bode well if the Bible is the word of god.
I close the view that religion treat those people who have no inner strength to being himself. They need to be some kind for someone and for some reason. Responsibility for the life of someone to hang on too .. someone feels insect in the face of a god or gods .. That is, we should live, and not otherwise, because that is prescribed ..
I think that turning to religion in times of life crises, difficult situations, when you do not know how to live. In the movie, for example, show how during the war, those who lost loved ones, turned to the church. Oh, and in other similar situations.
Of course it would be a better place without religion!
Religion is just another variable getting in the way of a more peaceful world.
If religion didn't exist, the crusades, the inquisition, 9/11, the suppression of women and homosexuals, hate for people of another religion -- and many more would have never been in the world.
I guess you would have to ask if religion has done more bad than good. I think it's obvious its history shows the bad far outweighs the good. So, we would be better off without it.
No, religion creates a set of standards for people. Such a the 10 commandments of Christianity they create a "law" for the people to follow the laws pertain to goodness, wholeness, and purity. Religions give people reasons to live and create opinions offering individuality among the people in the world.
Say to those who have disbelieved [that] if they cease, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return [to hostility] - then the precedent of the former [rebellious] peoples has already taken place. And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.
Unfortunately for you, it does both forbid forcing Islam onto others, and encourages the fighting until the entire world is for Allah.
those verses are discussing defense, when the Meccans were oppressing Islam and persecuting Muslims. ". And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do." if they mind their own buissness with their disbelief and leave the Muslims alone, they won't be attacked. " in the version of the translation you gave, "what as previously occurred " what has occured is oppression on the Muslims, if they stop they will be forgiven.
I don't care about the context, the verses talk about enforcing a faith in Allah, there's no other way of looking at it. You can't say that there is a complete ban on enforcing Islam (which there is, but that doesn't make your position any stronger) when there is also commands to enforce Islam, entirely, through military means.
The way you are interpreting this is that Muslims should fight non-stop unless these two conditions are met, but almost all Muslims understand this verse to mean that they can fight to end oppression as well as to establish conditions where they can freely worship God. This is further explained by Hadith where it says that if you see evil, stop it by hand; if you cannot stop it by hand, stop it by your tongue; and if you cannot do that either, then consider that to be evil in your heart. And if you go back to verse 8:34 where kuffar are warned to stop preventing Muslims from performing pilgrimage, the latter part of the verse “and religion is for Allah alone,” makes perfect sense_ the idea being that in al-Masjid al-Haram only God is to be worshiped (the idea being explicitly stated in verse 2:191 which sets the stage for verse 2:193, which is identical to verse 8:39). And how can you not care about context if that is what is all about? ignoring context is ignorance. there is history to back this up: When the Islamic state was rapidly expanding in the seventh and eighth century, many people came under the direct governance of Muslims. These peoples belonged to different religions, races, ethnicities, etc. If the hypothesis that "Muslims are required to eradicate non-Muslims or "infidels" was correct, then a pattern of deliberate extermination, forced conversions, and/or expulsion would have been observed throughout the history of Islam, especially when Muslims were powerful and winning over their opponents.
That systematic pattern is simply absent. For example, let us take India. India (or considerable parts of it) was for several centuries under the Muslim Mughal Empire. Many of the subjects of the empire, up to and including very high-ranking state officials, were Hindu. Till now, India is a predominantly Hindu country.
As I have already said, the fact that later on in the Quran it says that you should not convert everyone does not tell me that I should ignore this part, it tells me that there is a contradiction.
I also reject the argument that because people don't do it, it's not in the religion. Christianity says that all those who work on the Sabbath should be killed, along with those who get tattoos, or get bowl haircuts. Simply because people ignore those verses (rightly so, we can all agree), does not make the religion any better, it makes the people better. People are imperfect followers, and unlike ChadOnSunday, to me a religion is what is written down, what is preached, rather than what people take from it.
Say to those who have disbelieved [that] if they cease, what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return [to hostility] - then the precedent of the former [rebellious] peoples has already taken place. And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.
Ignoring context is ignorant, but I understand it, and I feel it doesn't matter. Whether you're preaching the enforcing of Islam to a small violent group, or to everyone, you're still enforcing religion.
The 10 commandments were less "created" and more "borrowed," but its a moot point; religion is morality for dummies and cowards. If religion is your morality, your morality was handed to you on a silver platter, no thought required, and you adhere to it not because you are actually moral, but because you fear the consequences of being immoral. It makes you a trained dog who wants his masters dinner; he would love to dig in, but he knows if he does he'll get a wack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
Isn't it better, then, to have morals, such as they are, independently and not for fear of punishment? If you do the right thing because you're afraid not to, how does that make you a good person? Better to have a society of good people than frightened, obedient automatons.
The 10 commandments were less "created" and more "borrowed," but its a moot point; religion is morality for dummies and cowards. If religion is your morality, your morality was handed to you on a silver platter, no thought required, and you adhere to it not because you are actually moral, but because you fear the consequences of being immoral. It makes you a trained dog who wants his masters dinner; he would love to dig in, but he knows if he does he'll get a wack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
Isn't it better, then, to have morals, such as they are, independently and not for fear of punishment? If you do the right thing because you're afraid not to, how does that make you a good person? Better to have a society of good people than frightened, obedient automatons.
The 10 commandments were less "created" and more "borrowed," but its a moot point; religion is morality for dummies and cowards. If religion is your morality, your morality was handed to you on a silver platter, no thought required, and you adhere to it not because you are actually moral, but because you fear the consequences of being immoral. It makes you a trained dog who wants his masters dinner; he would love to dig in, but he knows if he does he'll get a wack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
Isn't it better, then, to have morals, such as they are, independently and not for fear of punishment? If you do the right thing because you're afraid not to, how does that make you a good person? Better to have a society of good people than frightened, obedient automatons.
The 10 commandments were less "created" and more "borrowed," but its a moot point; religion is morality for dummies and cowards. If religion is your morality, your morality was handed to you on a silver platter, no thought required, and you adhere to it not because you are actually moral, but because you fear the consequences of being immoral. It makes you a trained dog who wants his masters dinner; he would love to dig in, but he knows if he does he'll get a wack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
Isn't it better, then, to have morals, such as they are, independently and not for fear of punishment? If you do the right thing because you're afraid not to, how does that make you a good person? Better to have a society of good people than frightened, obedient automatons.
Of course it is; no one's arguing otherwise. That said, what the atheist using this antitheistic line of reasoning means is that there are many religious doctrines whose logical implications lead their adherents to behave in questionable ways. For example, the belief that theism or Christianity is the exclusive source of morality commonly leads theists to distrust/hate nontheists, religious anti-abortionists are known to bomb abortion clinics, etc.
Well most religions are for the good of thier people but some religions are a little extreme but I know for fact the there is alote of people that do not commit atrocities becuase of religious beliefs and so its good in those cases but there is some that do I hate to imagine 2 million criminals in America with nothing mentally stopping them from doing whatever they want I'm sure most of them don't give a shit but there are that percentage that still belive in something so yea I think religon weather it it false and there is no god or there is a a god as long as people have something to belive in and make them feel good inside let them why does it bother u
