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sorry musslums its fake@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i agree but islam is only made for terisoum. i come from a faimly that beleives that musliums are just people put on earth to kill for exampe osama bin laden
Interviewer: "What does it feel to know that the" terrorists "September 11 was the same religion as you?".
Muhammad Ali: "What does it feel to know that Hitler was the same as you?"
What right have you to judge the whole religion because of one person?!
Hitler was a Christian. His desire to dominate the world has killed more than 60 million people, but no one judge Christianity by Hitler. Don't judge and won't be judged!
Don't act like no one from your or other religions are not terrorists okay. You cannot say that Islam is made for terrorism or for anything really because there are misconceptions in every religion. For every 5 muslim terrorists i bet there are 1000 good believers.
i think everyone has there own beleive system but im cristian. No, that is a terrible suggestion! People sticking to what they believe and not being concerned with what is probable or true is precisely the reason there is so much irrationality and poor decision making in the world. What people believe affects how they act, and if people have horrendously false or misinformed beliefs this can and has had real life consequences.
the holy quran is unchanged since the time it was revealed
Even if this is true, what proof does it provide?
It is after all a younger book than the bible, and is basically an edited version of it.
nor can it be changed it is in itself a miracle
I could change it if I so wished.
I could then find some remote isolated community, convert them to my new version and warn them of the growing evil in the world that wants to challenge their beloved God, who I'd name Yallahweh, and our prophet could be called Mohesus.
Over a sufficient length of time, I'd be a saint and my new Christslams would be doing what all other dogma adherents are doing today; trying to spread their particular version of the same story and fighting and killing and being generally nasty in the name of some "benevolent" deity.
the bible is said to be and edited version of the quran as does the torah.
The Torah is basically the old testament, a book which features in both the bible and the Qu'ran. The new testament bible was written died ~600 years before the time of Mohammed.
the bible is definately older than the quaran by about 600 years. and then you have the audacity to edit the written word of god and say this is real? what is wrong with you. mohammed had the new testement, not only did he edit it, he had the audacity to say that jesus was not the son of god. the way i see it, if you acknowlege jesus did exist, he either lied or the new testement is true. if he lied why would he be a prophet?
which is why my faith is in the bible, in jesus christ
firstly i said the quran is unchangeable of course you could make your own religion and call it whatever you want but you could never change a single word
yes i do agree with that. it has proven in the quran itself for those who already read that. also it has proven by the hafidz or people who could memorize quran. if its change, there will be so much difference between them
The Koran and the bible have a lot of difference, and we know that the bible is of divine origin but we believe that some scribes changed the Bible a little bit. You can change the Koran but when you publish it it will be burnt straight away.
Those terrorists are not real Muslims, they are extremists. I can't believe you are stuck on that stupid argument, but if you are going by that logic, OK, I am going to say that Christianity is evil because the KKK are Christians. That is stupid isn't it?
Excuse me, I meant believe. No. We believe the Koran was sent because the Bible was changed from its original form. Just know, there was no translation of the Bible in Arabic in Muhammad's time.
Actually you don't get what he meant by, it was never changed.
The original form stays the same. Bring in all the Korans in the world and you will see there is no change. The translation will always have the same meanings, for example, you have: و لحم طيرمما يشتهون فقشى and this translates to: And the meat of fowl, from whatever they desire. OR And flesh of fowls that they desire.
OR And the flesh of fowls, any that they may desire. OR And the flesh of fowl such as they desire. OR And the flesh of fowls that they desire.
First i want introduce myself. I'm from Kazakhstan. so "Is Islam true religion?" i think that it is. Because our religion show for us true way. and i give for you video if you want you see this video
Debate. There are similarities to the bible...........................................For example, they both believe in one God, they both believe in Moses, Jesus, Noah and many prophets.
It is not like the Bible tells us the universe is expanding. "...We have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.... " (Surah 51:47).
Nice and vague, it seems neither the bible or the Qu'ran can actually make one solid prediction, everyone of them vague and open to many interpretations.
In those times, everyone knew that heaven was the universe. Now we do not use the word heaven anymore. Sometimes people say: "I love staring at the heavens." This is quote from Galileo "The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go." This shows you that heaven was a very common word used to talk about the universe. I think I made a concrete point over her.
This is a good question and one that Bible readers have also asked about.
The term "We" in the Bible and in the Quran is the royal "We" - as an example when the king says, "We decree the following declaration, etc." or, "We are not amused." It does not indicate plural; rather it displays the highest position in the language. English, Persian, Hebrew, Arabic and many languages provide for the usage of "We" for the royal figure. It is helpful to note the same dignity is given to the person being spoken to in English. We say to someone, "You ARE my friend." Yet the person is only one person standing there. Why did we say "ARE" instead of "IS"? The noun "you" is singular and should therefore be associated with a singular verb for the state of being, yet we say, "are." The same is true for the speaker when referring to himself or herself. We say, "I am" and this is also in the royal plural, instead of saying, "I is."
When Allah uses the term "HE" in Quran it is similar to the above answer. The word "He" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status. It would be totally inappropriate to use the word "it" and would not convey the proper understanding of Allah being who Allah is; Alive, Compassionate, Forgiving, Patient, Loving, etc. It is not correct to associate the word "He" with gender, as this would be comparing Allah to the creation, something totally against the teaching of Quran.
No. It would have been impossible for Muslims, or anyone, to use the term "heaven" to mean "universe", because the term "universe" did not exist until 250 years (ish) after the start of Islam.
They definitely could have had similar meanings, but the verse is far too vague to be accepted as an accuracy of the Q'ran.
If you ask someone, you know, like testing them they would have said that it is expanding, I just did it and will do it again to be more accurate, no point disputing this for it is just an experiment. so until now, I stile have no concrete conclusion because I am not done with people, I plan getting around 21 people. More or less?
21? That's an odd figure. Still, am I allowed to tell them all about the history of the word "universe"? Because if 21 people believe it through ignorance, it doesn't make it true.
In those times, everyone knew that heaven was the universe.
How do you know this?
Sometimes people say: "I love staring at the heavens."
Sometimes people say they need to "lay down a brick" or "drop the Brown family off at the pool" when they want to portray that they wish to defecate, doesn't mean that they are going to be brick laying or bringing families to aquatic leisure facilities.
"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go."
This is a colloquial usage of a term by a man, not the inerrant word of God.
This shows you that heaven was a very common word used to talk about the universe
No, it shows ignorance to the existence of a Universe.
I think I made a concrete point over her.
So tantalizingly close to my "lay down a brick" point.
I'm not going to copy over the next paragraph as it is too long, but what I will say is first of all, thanks for the English lesson and secondly, I see your point.
I know this as many used it and many sources told me so, I made sure it was right info, so I looked for the same thing somewhere else. I believe Aristotle used the word heavens but I still do not have solid proof he said it. I'll look for it. But I know for a fact Galileo
I know this as many used it and many sources told me so, I made sure it was right info, so I looked for the same thing somewhere else. I believe Aristotle used the word heavens but I still do not have solid proof he said it. I'll look for it. But I know for a fact Galileo used the word to refer to space, stars and planets.
I asked many people what they understood and they said that the "sentence" says the universe is expanding, yes I did not tell him it is a verse from the Koran.
I asked many people what they understood and they said that the "sentence" says the universe is expanding, yes I did not tell him it is a verse from the Koran.
Surah 51:47 "With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of space." Waalssamaa banaynahabi-aydin wa-inna lamoosiAAoona
The word "expanding" doesn't appear in any English translation of the Koran prior to the 20th century. This is more of a matter of translation than prophecy.
The word expanding was always there, heck, you can even ask someone who speaks Arabic to tell you what it roughly means, I am confident of saying this because I speak Arabic.
Yet the author's knowledge on the formation of the earth is lacking. Is the earth expanding?
Now look at this translation: 51:47: And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
All of these seem to imply that during the point of creation, it was spread (or expanded) outward to present size like a ball of dough being kneaded. To say the verse implies that the universe is STILL expanding continually is reading into it what was never said, based on prior knowledge.
That's mostly what these "prophecies" are. Reading into ambiguous verses with prior knowledge. It is not unusual for ancient scientifically illiterate people to suppose that the universe was expanded or spread out to current size, what other supposition could they have taken?
Spread out does not mean expand, it just means that it is spacious and not crammed up. This is the summary of the verse :[51:48] And we made the earth habitable; a perfect design. Source: http://www.masjidtucson.org/quran/frames/ch51.html
You will discover that words have many meanings. This is why you can interpret one verse many different ways. Looking at your link we have found yet a FOURTH way to interpret the same sentence. How amazing is that? And then you claim it is not ambiguous? HA!
Precisely. It is the translator coming up with a close approximation of what he thinks the original author meant, which is why "expanding" did not appear in English translation until the 20th century. The verse you cite refers to a creation event. They did not know the universe was still expanding.
وسع(expand) is the origin of: لموسعون (expander) you can look up expand on any English-Arabic dictionary and you will find out it is expand. Why the English does not translate it back then, I do not know but the Arabic was the same.
وسع(expand) is the origin of: لموسعون (expander) you can look up expand on any English-Arabic dictionary and you will find out it is expand. Why the English does not translate it back then, I do not know but the Arabic was the same.
Yes, but expand and expanding are in different tenses. Expanded is past tense, expanding is present tense, and expand is future tense. Most the translations I have seen use past tense, as in it is no longer expanding. They also tend to use "create", "construct", "Build", "spread", In various translations.
Same verse translated two different ways:
"With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace."
"And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander."
and both of these are talking in past tense. Do you understand what I'm getting at? Many ancient people believed that the universe was brought into present form and then left that way, they did not know the universe is still expanding. This is what I'm arguing the authors of the Koran believed. They believed there was one creation event and then it stopped in present form. They did not know or believe that the Universe is still expanding. It took a long time for segments of the Muslim world to finally accept the Big Bang (only as the means of Allah's creation) and most fundamentalist Muslims still don't accept it even today. The Muslim belief 14 centuries ago was that there was one essence or material which was divided or "torn asunder" to form the heavens and the earth. To say that the Koran predicted the discovery of the Big bang is completely contrary to traditional Muslim belief for over a millennium.
Let us take a look at this: "And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander." Constructed is in its past tense which means God has created the universe already, the universe is expanding but in the verse it says expander. God is the expander of the universe, he is the cause for its expansion. If he is the expander that does not mean he is done. He is the expander and is still expanding the universe. The cause of something cannot be defined as present, future or past tense.
Expander can be either present or past tense, but the way it is used at the very least implies a past tense usage. But let us concede that it is ambiguous.
You are still ignoring the better argument I think:
It took a long time for segments of the Muslim world to finally accept the Big Bang (only as the means of Allah's creation) and most fundamentalist Muslims still don't accept it even today. The Muslim belief 14 centuries ago was that there was one essence or material which was divided or "torn asunder" to form the heavens and the earth. To say that the Koran predicted the discovery of the Big bang is completely contrary to traditional Muslim belief for over a millennium.
We are not talking about the Big Bang in the Koran right now. We are talking about the expanding universe, they have a few relations but are not equal to each other, besides it would have been the creationists who do not accept it and note that many Muslims have not read their Holy Book, and there is a reason for it I do not know if you want it though. The extremists, there are verses that are repeated and made clear but they still continue to act against it, this shows how much they actually understand and you expect them to notice that verse? There are Muslims who accepted it because it was in their Holy book. But either way, we are not discussing the Big Bang and the Koran.
Ah, yes I almost forgot that it is religion we are talking about, how else can one accept the redshift but deny the Big Bang? Fair enough. Will you respond to the rest of my argument?
before I go on to my next argument, the arguments we had know is what I like to call sub-arguments. Please tell me without making any arguments all the "miracles" of the Koran Muslims claim, do not look this up please I just want to know what you know.
Well we have the pharaoh one that you mentioned, that is the first time I've heard that one. A pretty flimsy prophecy I would say.
Off-hand the other prophecies or miracles that I recall are (without looking them up): one about a temple or gateway that still stands in the holy land, the Koran is often said to be a miracle as is Mohammed's authorship as he was illiterate, there is one I heard once about the form and shape of fetuses being mentioned therein, a mention of deep ocean trenches, the spread of Islam is sometimes called a miracle.
If you're talking about the miracles actually mentioned in the fables themselves, they are many of the same miracles mentioned in the Torah, and the Bible. Speaking with angels, an assortment of talking animals and/or vegetation, moses' plagues on egypt, crossing the red-sea, Jonah surviving inside the whale, fall of Jericho, etc...
I do not worry about the Bible and The Torah because (according to Islam) they are of divine origin as I said before. Alright, tell me, how did Iron come into the Earth?
Let me guess you have an associated myth attempting to explain where iron came from? Iron didn't "come into" the earth. The earth formed from coalescing cosmic dust that contained among other things, Iron(Fe). During the formation process the lighter elements are pushed to the top and heavier elements are held at the core, which is why we have an iron core planet. Nor is earth the only iron-rich planet, researchers have discovered that Mercury is loaded with iron.
You can read about the earth's formation in greater detail here:
That is incorrect. One atom of Iron needs four times the energy of the solar system to be created. Iron is an extra-terrestrial metal and scientists have confirmed that.
Iron is an extra-terrestrial metal and scientists have confirmed that.
This is a half-truth. Iron can be found in meteorites and indeed some surface iron has come from meteorites, but earth's iron core came about during it's cosmic formation. The only other source of Iron would be from earth's collision with the small Planet Thea early in earth's history (before there was any life).
One atom of Iron needs four times the energy of the solar system to be created
I'm not sure what propaganda source you are getting this from, but it is wholly untrue and laughably absurd. Elements much heavier than iron have been synthesized in laboratories.
Actually I am referring to the planet and you agree with the meteorites and I was referring to the planet which collided with the earth to give it its iron core.
Yes, but the earth had iron before either of these. The earth had Iron from the very beginning of it's existence as a planet. Meteorites only added to that quantity by a very small margin. To say iron is of extraterrestrial origin is a half-truth.
To my mind Islam is the true religion. Islam like other religions
preached goodness and justice. The terrorists are hiding behind religion and make their terrible deeds. There is no bad religion, there are bad people. Don't judge whole religion because of one person!
It requires people to posit imaginary people in the sky.
It is sad that your brain has decided to think some bullshit religion is true, when there is absolutely nothing, scientifically, to support your conclusion.
Yes, religions can be bad.. just about all of them.
And yes, people can be bad, too. Look at you? You don't know how to reason correctly, which can make you "bad".
you know after reading the arguments and arguing myself i think that this is a debate with no definite answer. As much as you support your evidence there will always be someone to agree and some to disagree. Maybe that is religion...it is vague and leaves you wondering, leaves you to believe what you want and to make your own choices. God (whichever) gave you The Books from there it is your decision really.
There is no evidence for any god. You simply stating there is a god is not going to give us any scientific evidence of one. That is a fail.
Your "holy book" is not special. It's just a book we've written, just like other books. It contains nothing special that shows us there is any god anywhere.
Allah is not reflective of the Creator. Allah is borrowed, better yet stolen. Mostly from God found in Judaism and Christianity.
God said let Us make man in Our image.Islam is man made. Mohommad was an opportunist motivating by power and violence. Forcing submission and conversion by the sword. And these were clearly an attempt to understand or show an understanding of the Jewish and Christian God, which is one and the same God. Jews look toward Messiah through their prophesies, and Christian look through those same prophesies and say that He came.
Islam takes pieces of the Old and New Testaments and all I have seen them use is misquoted, and completely out of context with other "inspirations" that are not inspirational by God, because God doesn't give revelations or prophesies that contradict His Word, His Attributes and Nature, nor His Prophesies and Purposes.
Paul says test the spirits and even if an angle of light comes teaching another gospel do not be decieved.Islam is an anti-Christ. Mohommad claims Jesus bore witness to his prophetic jiberish. Jesus would have had to deny His every word for that to be true. Jesus would have to be a liar for that to be true!
And if Jesus' testimony is a lie anywhere in His works, then anythinf said as a witness proclaiming Mohommad is an untrue invalid testimony!
So you need not go far, actually the inception of Islam is faulty because Jesus would have to be a false testimony by His words and deeds, making the declaration of Mohommad invalid and false from its very foundation!
Then you have the fruit and presentation of God, both contradict the nature of God, the Creator in Judaism and Christianity.
islam the true relgion cuz if it was not why do allah bring it down like it is like technology like there was blackberries then they made iphones so if blackberries are ok why do they bring iphones so it is very logical so if the other religons was ok so why did he bring islam so thats it
Islam is the true religion and it has been like that for hundreds of years. This religion has been implanted in the hearts of men for a lot years never by violence or any force. Islam has a meaning and definition that no other religion has(no offence). But I am confident that whoever follows Islam will enjoy its benefits later when there's no one to help them.
Mohommad claims Jesus bore witness to his prophetic jiberish. Jesus would have had to deny His every word for that to be true. Jesus would have to be a liar for that to be true!
And if Jesus' testimony is a lie anywhere in His works, then anythinf said as a witness proclaiming Mohommad is an untrue invalid testimony!
You need not go far, actually the inception of Islam is faulty because Jesus would have to be a false testimony by His words and deeds, making the declaration of Mohommad invalid and false.
Then you have the fruit and presentation of god, both contradict the nature of God in Judaism and Christianity.
The story of the Pharaoh is one of the reasons I converted. The Pharoah Ramesses the Second's body is preserved and it is not even a mummy, The Koran promises that the body of The Pharaoh will be preserved. http://www.arabic-alphabet.org/a-pharaoh-mentioned-in-the-quran/
The story of the Pharaoh is one of the reasons I converted
Easily swayed.
The Pharaoh Ramesses the Second's body is preserved and it is not even a mummy
Why is it not a Mummy, he underwent mummification as all Pharaohs do. Even if he weren't, have you never seen a preserved body before?
The Koran promises that the body of The Pharaoh will be preserved
Well if it is mummified it has a much better chance, also your article fails to say why he was shipped to France, it was because the corpse was deteriorating due to a fungus. Hardly a miracle preservation worthy of God's power.
Also, why would a mummified, clearly deteriorated corpse offer proof that Islam is the true religion?
Surely if the cadaver was perfectly preserved without mummification and didn't have it's head stuck back on with a stick it would be far more believable.
No he did not undergo mummification that is the point of me saying he is not a mummy.
This is false.
"Ramesses II was originally buried in the tomb KV7 in the Valley of the Kings but, because of looting, priests later transferred the body to a holding area, re-wrapped it, and placed it inside the tomb of queen Inhapy. 72 hours later it was again moved, to the tomb of the high priest Pinudjem II. All of this is recorded in hieroglyphics on the linen covering the body.[57] His mummy is today in Cairo's Egyptian Museum.
The pharaoh's mummy reveals a hooked nose and strong jaw, and stands at some 1.7 metres (5 ft 7 in).[58] His ultimate successor was his thirteenth son, Merneptah.
Mummy of Ramesses II
In 1974 Egyptologists visiting his tomb noticed that the mummy's condition was rapidly deteriorating and flew it to Paris for examination.[59] Ramesses II was issued an Egyptian passport that listed his occupation as "King (deceased)".[60] The mummy was received at Le Bourget airport, just outside Paris, with the full military honours befitting a king.[61]
In Paris, it was found that Ramesses's mummy was being attacked by fungus, which it was treated for. During the examination, scientific analysis revealed battle wounds and old fractures, as well as the pharaoh's arthritis and poor circulation.
Egyptologists were also interested by the mummy's noticeably thin neck. An X-ray revealed that the neck had a piece of wood lodged into the upper chest, essentially keeping the head in place. It is believed that during the mummification process the head had accidentally been knocked off by those performing the mummification."
I'm fairly certain that the bodies of all pharaohs were preserved, that is what the Egyptians did with the bodies of their rulers. They preserved them. This is a practice that had been going on almost a millennium before the Koran was written, and any group with knowledge of the Egyptians would have known this. How can you call this a prophecy when it would have been known beforehand? Furthermore the claim that Ramses the II wasn't mummified is false. The claim that he was found at sea is also false. Ramses the II was put in the tomb of Queen Inhapy and was later moved to the tomb of the high priest Pinudjem II. The Egyptians would sometimes use sea-salt in the mummification process.
are you mad? You misunderstood everything. fool. don't think I am one of those theists who just uses circular logic. Perhaps you should stop being insulting when you have no idea what the person is talking about.
thats true, such a debate i think is stupid. Everyone has their own opinions and every religion has evidence to prove their evidence. I don't think we should try to decide which is real and which is not, just stick to what you believe.
I don't think we should try to decide which is real and which is not, just stick to what you believe.
No, that is a terrible suggestion! People sticking to what they believe and not being concerned with what is probable or true is precisely the reason there is so much irrationality and poor decision making in the world. What people believe affects how they act, and if people have horrendously false or misinformed beliefs this can and has had real life consequences.
no that is not the reason there is so much irrationality in the world, the reason is that some people fail to accept other peoples beliefs and try and get them to believe what they believe in any way they can. oh...and i meant evidence to support their religion :O
the reason is that some people fail to accept other peoples beliefs and try and get them to believe what they believe in any way they can.
And why do you think that is? Religion is given special protection in much of the world either socially or legalistically. Religion is not subject to critical analysis like other beliefs are, and critical analysis is the enemy of unreason. When you have major religions that have it right in their doctrine that other religions are false, and that God's work is to spread the religion of course they not going to accept other faiths. When these faiths are sheltered from criticism then this is what allows irrationality to fester and grow.
actually. it is human nature. humans are naturally stubborn and dont want to change their ways. if your reason was true then why are there (at the same time) so many people who accept people of any religion and aren't critical?
if your reason was true then why are there (at the same time) so many people who accept people of any religion and aren't critical?
Tolerance of other religions is an outgrowth of secularization. Furthermore places where there is the most criticism of (other) religions is coincidentally the places where there is more tolerance of other religions. Intolerance comes primarily from those that dogmatically dismiss other religions, and not from those who have reasoned ideological differences.
"...humans are naturally stubborn and dont want to change their ways." Humans are the dominant species on the planet because they possess the ability to adapt. Left to their own devices humans will embrace change towards advancement of objectives. This is where religion retards tolerance. The dominant religions achieved domination through suppression/isolation of opposing dogma. Consider Christianity's inquisitions and crusades, Islam's fatwas and Judaism's cultural isolation. If one recognizes the objective of religions is conversion to the One True Word, one sees it is not stubborn human nature that is to blame.
Oh, and "...so many people who accept people of any religion and aren't critical?" What planet are you on?
That's interesting because opinions don't really matter in areas of fact.
I don't know of ANY religion that has evidence for their imaginary friends.
I also find it completely ridiculous that you would assert we should not think about what's real or not, but just "stick to what you believe". This is completely fallacious reasoning and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Truth is what matters, and we should NOT be telling people to not employ reason and logic to reach conclusions.
Well see many have tried to put some logic into peoples' heads without success. But dude get real! we are all stubborn humans who don't want to change our ways. Ya sure think about it, but to have a debate that is clearly resulting in fights and getting no where except for people committing blasphemy is plain stupid. It is not something you can have a debate upon. You can't just chose one religion that half the world has turned against and decide whether it is true or not.
no i think you are wrong there is only one god whatever you want to call him one way of worship if my opinion was to worship a dog would i go to heaven everyone always has there own opinion for everything so why have a debate site
A debate site is not only to convince others that you are right but to share ideas. On the other hand religion is a very personal topic and i dont think you should care what religion someone else is from. Yes there may be only one god, but is everybody willing to accept that? if i told you that your religion is wrong you will not accept it, but you would find it very easy to tell me and not understand why i cant accept it. At the end of the day we should all stick to our religions and not let them get in the way of things.
Yes, sticking to your religions would be fine, but in those religions contains rules. If you've read the Koran, or the Bible, it is EXTREMELY hostile to non believers.
Death, war, enslavement.
Religion is a wicked tool used to control people. With modern Christianity and Islam, it is not even a tool to hypothesize about the origin of things, we have science to explain nature now.
The only thing religion does now is divide people and teach them subservience and bullshit.
Agnosticism, atheism and deism are the only way this world will ever reach peace.
I feel that deism will lead to stronger forms of religion, however, so I would personally advise people to simply abandon their wicked gods, that rule invisibility from the shadows, never speaking, never advising, just there?
Just watching, waiting for doomsday? Or what? To judge you to cast you into hell?
It fails to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it's true. Its moral teachings are flawed (in my opinion), its scientific teachings are vague at best, and its predictions are only occasionally correct, just as any large collection of predictions should be.
And that's only why it's wrong, I see little to no proof as to why is it right.
I am just curious, which moral teachings do you not agree with actually? It cannot be all of them because I am pretty sure you agree with not murdering.
Stoning was never used on adulterers in the early Islamic kingdoms, why? because to be stoned for adultery, you need four witnesses of good character who witnessed your act simultaneously, saw the actual penetration in a bright room. How likely is that? And if you confess in court, you will not be stoned, God can forgive you as well. If you repent, you won't be stoned. Those who hate islam because of this seem to support adultery in public places in day-light. Women, what do they have to do with anything? Before Islam, they were sexual objects. The koran does not teach that women are inferior, "I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labors in My way, be it man or woman; each of you is equal to the other (3:195)"
"Verily for all men and women who have surrendered themselves unto God, and all believing men and believing women, and all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves before God, and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, and all men and women who remmber God unceasingly: for all of them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward." (33:35)
Why do we Muslims pray 5 times a day?
It is a means of showing the loyalty, gratitude, modesty and love towards God. No other religion in the world preaches to pray to God 5 times a day. It is only in Islam. This is to remind Muslims that there is an Almighty who created them and to bow their heads in total humbleness towards God. If it is done 5 times a day, one can imagine how close to God one is and that will help to help one abstain from all evil and vices. It makes a human being better. It makes him 5 times better.
And do you think you are not rewarded? When you pray, you get hasanat, which I guess in English means good points or deeds, if your hasanats out weigh you sayyi'ats (bad deeds or points) you will go to paradise.
Stoning was never used on adulterers in the early Islamic kingdoms
First of all, I disagree with stoning ever being encouraged, yet alone engraved into law. Regardless of the cases it's for, I feel it's wrong.
Second, I believe that it also encourages having your hands chopped off for certain thefts.
Not sure how much of this is taken out of context, but it gives some examples of things I don't dislike: link.
The koran does not teach that women are inferior
In the same way that Republicans treat women in complete equality. Regardless of how equal they are claimed to be, this is not the case, in practice or in text: link 1, link 2, and link 3. Obviously, a lot of the text is incorrectly interpreted/out of context, I'll admit that, but by the sheer amount of things that I disagree with, I cannot agree that the Quran promotes equality between genders.
Why do we Muslims pray 5 times a day?
I do not think that humans should be forced to be humble, a true proof of faith would be optional prayer. Anyone that then prays is showing that they do it simply out of love for someone, rather than doing it because they have to.
Stupid site, I saw it before, -Verse 4:11 say that the male has twice as much, but every Muslim knows that the reason is simple, the man does not keep everything to himself, he is has to use the money to benefit the family and part of it for himself, while the woman's money is entirely for her.
- verse 2:228 is about responsibility: And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise (2:228).
-2:230 has nothing to do with degrading women.
verse 4:3 says that if you can't do justice with two wives then marry only one, the verse should not have been on the site. and the reason why men can marry maximum four wives is simply because there are more women than men.
How the hell does verse 4:129 say to get rid of one of your wives? It says DO NOT lean toward one and leave the other in a state of suspense.
The prophet Muhammad said that when you "hit" them you must not :inflict pain, not to bruise and not hit with something longer than a miswak, this means that the "beating" is something symbolic, a sign which reminds the wife to stop going crazy otherwise the marriage is lost. And the "beating" is actually tapping.
Verse 4:11 say that the male has twice as much, but every Muslim knows that the reason is simple, the man does not keep everything to himself, he is has to use the money to benefit the family and part of it for himself, while the woman's money is entirely for her.
Hardly promoting equality then. That does not fit into a modern world, where women can work, whilst men stay at home, even in the Islamic world. I have Arab friends whose mother works. And anyway, I disagree with the idea that men should get more and then spend it on family, both should get money and spent it where it's necessary.
verse 2:228 is about responsibility
And authority. Again, I disagree that men should have to take care of women, and that women should therefore be put in a lower position in society to allow men to do this.
verse 4:3 says that if you can't do justice with two wives then marry only one
Agreed, the verse specifically isn't 'against' women, but the idea of men being allowed to marry more than one women is. Men and women are in equal numbers in modern society, all around the world. All it does it put separate rules for men and women, with little to no rationale. Hardly equal.
The prophet Muhammad said that when you "hit" them you must not :inflict pain, not to bruise and not hit with something longer than a miswak, this means that the "beating" is something symbolic, a sign which reminds the wife to stop going crazy otherwise the marriage is lost. And the "beating" is actually tapping.
Again, your claims are either false, or show contradictions within the Quran.
Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715: shows how Muhammed saw a women with a green bruise, complaining about the husband who did so, which we can all agree is against Islamic teaching, and yet he only questioned her on her infertility, instead of him on his beating.
http://answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm has a relatively good, and what seems mostly fair, evaluation of the Islamic opinion of it. From what I've seen in videos, it's mostly agreed upon. However, I've seen no claims that men may not inflict pain (this, for example), only that it may not be infront of others, cause bleeding, bruising, break bones, or be on the fact.
And the "beating" is actually tapping.
And yet there are so many examples within the Quran of beating which is much much more than tapping.
Infidels are cool is so dishonest.
I agree that they are less than fair in their commentaries, but they twist words just as much as I have seen Islamic scholars do so.
I never said that that can't fit into women working, I said that men and women have different responsiblities as per that time, if the responsibilites were to switch, then the inheritance would also switch.
Just because men take care of women does not mean that they are in a lower status, hasn't your dad ever told you that you are the only man, you need to know how to defend yourself and your sisters and stuff like that? Cuz I know a some atheist families who do that as well, that does not mean that girls can't defend themselves or that women cannot defend men, it just means that regularly if one usually protects it's the man, it;s just something that is usual. You know what I mean? In actuality, the verse only says degree, nothing else, so the prophet's tasfir might explain it. but I do have a quote from the prophet: "O People! it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste. But if they did so, then beat them painless beat."
You said that men and women are in equal proportions which is not true, there are more women than men so God allows polygamy for the sake of no woman being alone. he did not recommend it, he said it is halal.
I never said that that can't fit into women working, I said that men and women have different responsiblities as per that time, if the responsibilites were to switch, then the inheritance would also switch.
That is not true, if you had a parent die in a family, and the women worked, whilst the man did not, under strict Sharia law, the women would not be allowed to inherit more, the man still would. The distinction does not fit into the modern (equal) world.
Just because men take care of women does not mean that they are in a lower status, hasn't your dad ever told you that you are the only man, you need to know how to defend yourself and your sisters and stuff like that?
There is a difference between observing physical differences between some men, and some women, and saying that women are not capable of looking after themselves, and need a man to do so for them, to spend their money for them, to beat them when they do wrong, for them to be below, and to be devoted to.
I do have a quote from the prophet
I see no equality in the idea of 'you can beat her if she does wrong'. Just because you both have rights, they are not the same: the right to beat in certain situations vs the right to be beaten in certain situations.
And as the quote I showed you including the prophet implied, he automatically assumed that it was a womens fault when she was beaten (even when do so more than the Quran allows), rather than the mans fault for beating her.
Remember that religion, along with science, works on the idea of falsiability, whatever proof there is for something, it needs only one contradiction to prove it wrong (why you can never really prove anything, even in science). Therefore, for all the quotes you put forward, promoting equality, I need only fine one quote that shows you wrong, and I win the argument - as long as the quote is valid.
You said that men and women are in equal proportions which is not true, there are more women than men
The UN says there are 100.157 women for every 100 men, as of December 2011. I hardly think that's enough to justify allowing men to have more than one wife.
Out of interest, if that's the argument for it, do you think that Allah would change the words of the Quran were the number of women to decrease, and become less than man? Or if the number was lower when it was written? Such a thing seems impossible to me.
you sound like you must be a scholar in religion you must of read the quran and sunnah (teachings of muhammad pbuh)its scientific teachiongs are accurate like in the quran it speaks of clouds mountains creation of humans all of which follow todays science perfectly
I have absolutely no intention of devoting so much time to something that I see little truth in. I've read excerpts and commentaries on most major religions, I know the basics, and all have given me reasons to doubt them. I respect those who do, I have no wish to be an ignorant Westerner, I simply don't feel I need to become an expert in all religions to make a choice not to follow them.
algud bro i was just saying cause i thought you were seeking the truth and i just wanted to let you know there are 100% truths in the quran dont take your version of islam from its followers take it from the quran and sunnah(teachings of muhammad pbuh)
The point of most sports teams is to win. But to determine whether of not they're a good sports team you have to look at the players, and the score.
If you only ever judge the highest ideal of something, of course it's benevolent. You have to judge Islam based on its followers, based on the regions where it has control, you have to look at whats actually happening. Most things sound good on paper.
Just because you can interpret some things in your lame book to refer to things that exist today, doesn't mean the OTHER things, for which such things DO NOT reference, are "real".
We still need evidence that there is a god, afterlife, etc etc.. oh, including those 72 virgins.
i dont have to prove nothing to you why dont you just make an ant show all these so called people who believe in the almighty creator that its easy and can i order a couple of flys dont insult me with your 72 virgins carry on living your pitiful life as short as it isand keep laughing until you visit the grave what are the non believers waiting for nothing only to die running around chasing worldly objects fools
You DO have to prove something. You think you can force people to believe you?
What will you do, behead them? Burn them at the stake? Another crusade?
You think you're right. I think you're wrong.
My belief that you're wrong is based on evidence. Your holy text is violent. I do not care that it has predicted what's consistent with science. Science does not use prophecies or divination, it uses only observation of things that can be seen today.
Your holy book, Christian or Muslim, both advocate violence or death against those who disagree, and if you could PROVE it was true, perhaps I would change my ways, but you just said "i dont have to prove nothing to you"
You DO have to prove something. You think you're above the rest of us because you follow religion?
In a court of law, you DO need to prove the verdict.
In any sort of debate regarding anything but religion, you DO need evidence and proof based on facts and observation.
Only religion seems to be exempt from logic.
Only religion cannot ever find any evidence.
Only faith is a system where you are rewarded for mindless belief without questioning.
Yes, only religious people cannot prove their point.
I wonder why it's only religion, one of the most violent and destructive forces on Earth, that cannot ever win a debate.
What on earth makes Islamic religion more "true" than any other religion? How can anyone with any specific religion classify there's as "true" and another one as untrue? This question isn't even debatable. The big debate here, which is clearly personified in the question asked, is what is religion? You get into this debate with anyone with a different belief then yours and everyone arues what makes their religion better than yours. The fact is, a fact which SHOULD end the debate, yet never will, is we will never, can never, prove anyone right or wrong on their own beliefs, and it's completely unfair of any of us to claim superiority.
In my opinion, it will not be fair to generalize. Around the world there are a lot of religions. It will not be fair to say that Islam is the only religion as the other religions will feel discriminated.
maybe there are so many religions because there are so many types of people. one religion would not work for every body. every religion seems to have been designed for a certain group of people, who needed that particular form of spiritual guidance at that particular time . If there is more than one god, why we do not feel any war between them. If there was more than one god, then would we not see his messengers, according to the holly books like the bible, the torah and the koran. they only mention the same god. Is there evidence showing there is more than one god? Every religion is a school, pick the path that is closet to your heart and soul...
Are you for real right now? What on earth makes Christianity any better than the Islamic religion? Are you saying you can find absolutely no flaws whatsoever in the religion of Christianity. I think you should do your research a little bit on the history of Christianity before you come and make a comment like that. How very naive of you. I'm a supporter of neither religion, but I probably know more on both religions than you ever have about the one religion your worshiping!
u can read a book about flying planes or even helicopters but until u actually fly one u dont know same goes for ur so called knowledge of islam and christianity
Hahaha, Oh get real Salmani... you can't seriously be telling me that unless I am of that religion I know nothing about it? How can you even make such a claim when you don't know for sure whether what you believe in is true or not either? All you have to rely on is your faith... and don't tell me otherwise, unless you can show me the facts and proof that everything you believe in is TRUE and FACTUAL (which by the way, you cannot), than who are you to say I know nothing about either religion?
If you were a decent person, you wouldn't despise other religions! You've no right and respect to talk that Islam isn't true religion. I'm a Muslim and I think that I've no right to condemn or despired other religion! Islam is true religion and it teachs us to respect other people and their religions. Islam honors all the prophets! In my opinion all religions are true because all of them help us to think that God is one and the great!
Prove it already! But I'm sure that you can't prove it!
No, that is not my opinion. My opinion is if a religion is true, then it is true, if it is false, it is false.
How can I determine which is true and which is false?
HEY GOD. CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. WHAT IS YOUR NAME? ANSWER ME AND CLEAR UP THIS CONFUSION
Until a real god answers, I can imagine he would answer with more than just a response on this website though. Perhaps the entire sky will shine blue, red, yellow, purple, one after another, or some other grand display that no human could possibly impersonate, that would be good proof.
But you know what? You already know that won't happen. Your god doesn't exist and never has existed.
Yahweh, or Allah, was once part of a polytheistic religion. All you did, was looong ago, you wrote "There is no god but Allah"
Is that true? What about Marduk, the true creator god? Yahweh and Allah are the same, and they are both gods of war. Gods of death and destruction and murder.
Are you Sunni? If so, which Madhhab: Maliki, Shafi`i, Manbali, Hanafi group do you identify with? How about Shi'ah? If so, Ismailism (Dawoodi Bohra, Sulamimani Bohra, Hebtiahs Hohra, Alavi Bohra, Mutaali, Nizazi, Druz, Atbi-I-Malak), Twelver (with crossover elements to the Ismailist branches and Alevi and the Sufi-oriented Bektashi). How about Alawi, or Zaidiyyah? How 'bout Sufism and their branches like Naqshbandi, Uwaiysi, Naqshbandi, Suhrawardiyya, Qadiri, Mauride, Shadhili, Mevlevi, and Tijaniyyah? Then there's Quranism and it's various sects. And don't forget Mahdavism, Moorish Science, Messiah Foundation International, or everybody's favorite Non-Branch the Nation of Islam.
"well islam doesnt branch off for one .............................................................." Okay, now, what's next?
learn boy get ur knowledge from scholars the fundementals for all these groups are the same five pillars of islam im from Heretaunga in Aotearoa i learn from a sheik who is from Egypt he doesnt belong to a madhhab we are what the Quran tells us to be Muslims i didnt read the part about being maliki shafii manbali hanafi are you starting to understand see how you try and divide the muslim ummah but its ok peace be upon you
maybe in the muslim minds it is, why they believe this ? they try and brainwash us to believeing they are correct all the time, and force it upon other religons. other religons are important too. religons ones beliefs should not be forced upon individuals,. it should feel natural, spiritual to feel it.
religion in itself is not the problem, its people abusing their religion, changing it for their own gain, purpose, evil ways. just because its your beliefs does not mean its always right and you can get away with it.
no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no..........................................................................................................................................................................
no i dont think islam is true religion because some people following islam thinks that they are superior than others they want that people of any cast should abide the rules by them as the great conquerer while conquering had kuran(a holy islamic book) anure should bd a sword on other hand and asked people of diff eligion their wish if they chose kuran then ok otherwise he killed them this type of culture should be finished.
Allah is not reflective of the Creator. Allah is borrowed, better yet stolen. Mostly from God found in Judaism.
God said let Us make man in Our image.
And His presence and worship to Him go back to Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel. It is the oldest "religion" regardless of naming the religion, Judaism. The religious tradition goes back beyond Abraham. The precepts named or unnamed were handed down through generations to Abraham. And we can see that interaction with God as represented in Judaism to Noah, and in worship from Cain and Abel.
Islam is man made. Mohommad was an opportunist motivating by power and violence. Forcing submission and conversion by the sword. And these were clearly an attempt to understand or show an understanding of the Jewish and Christian God, which is one and the same God. Jews look toward Messiah through their prophesies, and Christian look through those same prophesies and say that He came.
Islam takes pieces of the Old and New Testaments and all I have seen them use is misquoted, and completely out of context with other "inspirations" that are not inspirational by God, because God doesn't give revelations or prophesies that contradict His Word, His Attributes and Nature, nor His Prophesies and Purposes.
Paul says test the spirits and even if an angle of light comes teaching another gospel do not be decieved.
There are many warning especially spoken by Jesus and the Appostles of false teachers.
Jesus said you will know them by their fruit. John says you will know them by their love. Jesus says I am from the Father and do the deeds of my Father, and to the pharasees that rejected Him He told them they do the deeds of their father. Two fathers, the god of this world, Satan, and God the Father of Jesus.
Jesus clearly discussed a likeness as you would see a likeness in children to their parents. He said children of the Most High God will be like the Son, the 1st Born of many brethern.
The inaccuracies alone are a major issue. The twisting of scriptures stolen are so twisted out of context that there can't be any legitimacy.
Since the first fall man has worshiped the Creator, or they have made an image of god in their own image, or of minor elements that are merely found in creation, but are nothing compared to the Creator.
Satan fell from Heaven like lightening for challenging God with self worship. Adam and Eve were fallen for taking fruit that would make them like a god.
These dynamics are here in religion. You have 1 Creator and 1 God.
And anything outside of that is a creation of god.
So worship the Creator or worship a creation. These are the 2 choices set before us.
Atheism also is self worship, the atheist follows the sin of Satan by making himself a god , while denying the Creator.
And Islam is a creation of a god that was birthed in a violent man, and led violence justified, inspired, and even commanded through a dark mind that truely was illiterate both in the natural and in the spiritual.
Islam is an anti-Christ. Mohommad claims Jesus bore witness to his prophetic jiberish. Jesus would have had to deny His every word for that to be true. Jesus would have to be a liar for that to be true!
And if Jesus' testimony is a lie anywhere in His works, then anythinf said as a witness proclaiming Mohommad is an untrue invalid testimony!
So you need not go far, actually the inception of Islam is faulty because Jesus would have to be a false testimony by His words and deeds, making the declaration of Mohommad invalid and false.
Then you have the fruit and presentation of god, both contradict the nature of God in Judaism and Christianity.
