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disagree with israel agreeing with israel
Debate Score:13
Total Votes:13
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 disagree with israel (7)
 agreeing with israel (6)

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timtam(7) pic

palestine and israel


growing up i always wondered how strange it is that in modern day with modern human rights with modern media coverage people would support the invasion and occupation of a country. Accept the violations against human rights towards Palestinians, and approve of the eviction of Palestinian people who have been living there for generations. further more i wonder how USA tax payers are happy to pay billions to provide military support to Israel. in light of recent events with ghaza and 10s of other different cities and the way israel is treating palestinian civilians this debate came back to mind.

i am neither a Muslim nor a Palestinian nor a USA tax payer. I am very curious to hear the side of a logical intelligent person who is willing to have a civilised debate about this topic. I welcome anyone who supports israel to have this civilised egoless objective debate with me. PLEASE DO NOT MISLABLE THIS DEBATE WITH ANTISEMITISM this is not about the muslim god or the jewish god. Please support all claims with a valid reliable source. 

disagree with israel

Side Score: 7

agreeing with israel

Side Score: 6
1 point

the topics id like to address first are: palestine before the settling, previous and recent war crimes against civilians, previous and recent evictions, blockade and poor living conditions, lack of media coverage, HAMAS, and current situation of palestinian people.

(please forgive if you find the addressed topics are worded in a biased manner)

Palestine before settling: the common claim that Palestine was never a country before Israel is not true. Palestine was under the United Kingdom mandate just as Lebanon was under the French mandate. after the mandate ended Lebanon was free as an independent country but UK decided to hand over a country to other people. "a people without land for a land without people" the quote of the promised land. this land in fact had people, and culture, and airport and movies and music and ethnicity and so much more. Furthermore, Palestine was never owned by the United kingdom to be handed over it was under the mandate that ended in 1948 that does not in anyway suggest a transfer of ownership.

supporting sources: mandateforpalestine

and obviously theres plenty more

war crimes and evictions: Even though there is very little media coverage on the situation for years now israeli soldiers and police have been shooting civilians, women and children, arresting young boys and convicting them under military law, shooting innocent civilians with rubber bullets (theres videos of 4 week old baby being covered in rubber bullets. israeli soldiers wearing "1 shot two kills" T shirts while shooting pregnant palestinian women has become a trend. jewish civilians terrorising palestinian communities knowing that the police wont protect the palistinians. and anything else you can imagine when the ruling military power is jewish and the civilian palestinians are not welcomed by the ruling power.

Evictions range from jewish families from brooklyn moving into homes that were previously owned by palestinans that are now homeless sleeping on the streets. the israeli government forcing Palestinians to pay for the demolition of their homes and if they dont they will demolish it for them and charge them the cost. the UN and many countries have acknowledged these actions as illegal evictions and nothings being done about it. countless videos of these have been shown all over media and the internet even though main media sources such as fox news wont show any of this. (face book was censoring these topics for a long time). these war crimes and evictions have been going on for years but in light of the current situation they have been caught on camera more often.


again theres plenty more feel free to do your search

blockade and poor living conditions: in short lack of access to clean water electricity medical aid, medicine and much much more is strategically and continuously prevalent in the gaza strip and many other Palestinian community areas, and has been for years now. publications/EP60000/EP67494/EP-67494.pdf

Media coverage: i mentioned during war crimes and evictions that there is little to no media coverage on main news platforms and believe that this is done by design.

HAMAS: usually the most common justification of israels actions is "terrorism" which when heard by americans still traumatised by 9/11 immediately lose any sympathy for the families suffering under these attacks.

Israel took over in 1948 and since then has been expanding evicting and forcing its way into further control into Palestinian territories. the things we are seeing today regarding evictions and attack on civilians... has been going on for years and since the initial NAKBA

The Nakba (Arabic: النكب77;R06;, romanized: an-Nakbah, lit. '"disaster", "catastrophe", or "cataclysm"'), also known as the Palestinian Catastrophe, was the destruction of Palestinian society and homeland in 1948, and the permanent displacement of a majority of the Palestinian people.

HAMAS was established in 1987. there was 39 years of Israel doing its thing to Palestinians before HAMAS was made as a reaction. although i dont agree with HAMAS and dont support it, it was established as a reaction to almost 40 years of oppression and suffering and Nakba. furthermore if someone took over a European land forcefully and violently and displaced most of those people and 40 years later they try to take their land back through force as well people wouldn't be calling them terrorists.

the whole "two sides to the story" does not go back to HAMAS terrorism it goes back 40 years of oppression first.

Palestinians now:

currently Palestinian civilians are living in poor conditions with little to no access to clean water medicine or protection, are exposed to violence from jewish radicalists with no protection from the police or the military. are getting killed shot with rubber bullets arrested for simply protesting. Jewish communities through their protests are chanting "death to arabs" "nakba number two is coming" "we will burn your villages" palestinians are being evicted forced to demolish their own homes and are being displaced in mass numbers.

what information am i missing or where am i mistaken for you as a person to see what is happening and still support a state that is so plainly conducting acts of apartheid discrimination, war crimes, illegal evictions and much more.

once again excuse me for sounding aggressive or judgmental. this is truly an attempt to expand my mind and learn both sides. i look forward to having this debate with whoever wishes to.

kindest regards

Side: disagree with israel
Ahoghill(865) Disputed
1 point

That's quite a hard luck story.

It is however a seriously flawed epistle and is clearly a one-sided narrative designed to pluck the heart strings of the naive and gullible.

When presenting one's case it's a common ploy to refer to, and stop at a point in history which suits the correspondent's accusations.

The Israelis turned a Palestinian shit hole into a modern, thriving and wealthy country where everyone except terrorists are welcome.

Side: agreeing with israel
timtam(7) Disputed
1 point

audacious and disrespectful, not qualities for a good debate.

noticed you failed to mention where it is flawed

i suppose you agree that UK colonizing South Africa was a good thing because they turned its poverty into a thriving country too?

should african americans be glad they were kidnapped as slaves because now they are in a thriving country?

Palestine was far from a shithole you dont know your history.

and Israel does not welcome everyone they are literally conducting illegal evictions of thousands of civilians. you use the word terrorist as a generalised term for all Arabs to justify the inhumane conditions they are treating Palestinians.

you clearly are not debating to learn or educate others but rather projecting your ignorance towards arabs which is something that has clearly been taught to you from a young age. that mentality is not needed for this debate

Side: disagree with israel
Gypsee(347) Disputed
1 point

Let me rephrase your argument:

The Americans invaded Palestine. The US = Israel. The US has only brought war and death in Palestine.

Side: disagree with israel

I am Pagan. But this Abrahamic BS is what gives atheists fuel to convince people religion is bad bad. There would be none of this ongoing war if it weren’t for white people being duped into believing they’re “sons of Abraham “!!!! Biggest shim sham and hijack in history. Y’all Abrahamics deserve the bloodshed

Side: disagree with israel

I think that what happened was that the Israelites moved in. Then the Palestinians said, "This is our land." And the Israelites said, "Where did you get it from?" And the Palestinians said, "From our forefathers." And the Israelites said, "And where did they get it from?" And the Palestinians said, "From their forefathers." And the Israelites said, "And where did they get it from?" And the Palestinias said, "They fought for it." Then the Israelites said, "We'll fight you for it." ;)

Side: agreeing with israel

As it sits, I've got to side with Israel on this one. While they've had their own issues with keeping up with the demand of maintaining the region, and Palestine has apparently been doing their best to make it a difficult task.

It's just that we've seen Palestine commit so many horrible acts in all of this, and just how their media has turned anything, no matter how base, or even extreme Israel's people do. Into what appears to be some sort of world wrenching war-crime. But they've continued to do so, even after being caught in the act several times.

I've wondered just when they'll tempt fate and force Israel to start actually fighting an all out war with Palestine, because it didn't exactly go in their favor last time, and I doubt Israel will be so forgiving this time around.

Side: agreeing with israel
drlebronskiv(23) Disputed
1 point

What ar you talking about when you say palestine commit so many horrible acts. Your probably talking about hamas in whitch case paestine does not control them at all. While i hate Both the IDF and hamas are basically doing terrorism especially the IDF, they sniped palestinian protestors for no reason, they sent missles down killing hundreds of innocent palestinians both children and adults they destroyed dozens of important building in palestine while hamas has only killed 12 people (which is still bad)

Side: disagree with israel