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I mean, who would want to explain existence by a child-killing, genocidal, evil-hell-maker that believes that people should suffer forever for doing things that don't even begin to amount to that (such as not believing.)
Sadly, Christianity is only logical to an illogical mind. :P
The same reason Christianity would have been created. Fear of the unknown. People may know a lot more than they did before, but there's still many things that are unknown to humans, and they need some way to explain it, so they turn to religion. Especially what happens after death, that I believe is the the biggest fear that people have. And religion explains it to them.
No evidence, second hand accounts, fairy tales, God displaying no affection for humankind, flaws in our society, ...
How COULD you believe in an all-powerful Sky Daddy, if he did exist he'd be a fucking bastard AND a lunatic, if religion didn't exist we'd have advanced a lot quicker and much further, and a lot of religious people are hateful, no further debate needed.
well thats not completely true, were humans so when we get messages from the divine we tend to put human restricitions on it, and if religion didnt exist for a while befor it was used for manipulation, we would have quickly devolved and slaughtered each other, which is not to say we dont today, and i agree it should be gone, but we would probably be far worse now if religion had never been created
Very true, I agree the immorality of man is horrible and is escalating. The reason it seems to be escalating is that evolution is becoming more and more popular. It allows everyone to do anything they want without the possibility of being punished for it (by a Creator). I also agree that we definately would have been slaughtered by now if there weren't a set of moral code that was designed for us to follow. If there is no God, then exactly your point, we would all run-a-muck. (Me included - if I even arrived here to begin with) There would be no set of moral code that was designed within us. It would be as the so called "un-religious (no such thing)" say it: "Survival of the fittest through natural selection."
People still believe in Christianity because most people tend to take up after their parents in terms of religious beliefs. A small percentage of people actually have a completely different religion or no religion at all, compared to their parents. Religion is also highly based on geography as well.
I can't believe I ever believed in that Christianity BULLSHIT. I really don't know, but I'm going to blame it on the fact that I was a kid raised in a Southern (USA) Non-Denominational Christian household with uber strict rules. I think maybe I was chastised into 'believing', and, honestly, I think even back then, it was 'faux' belief. I always hated giving 10% of my hard earned money to " God " ( the church ) when I worked for that money, not God!!!
Haha, I became an atheist about a year after I left home at 18 ---- 12 years later, I feel absolutely wonderful that I'll never have to donate my money to an imaginary charity again! (Except for the federal government, that is)
But, I still wonder, what the HELL was I EVER thinking? Oh right, I WASNT !!
i have searched online and in books for christians reasons for belief and have yet to find a reasonable answer. there is not a shred of evidence massive evidence to the contrary of what their beliefs are and yet still for some reason they continue believing. it baffles me
What are you talking about? "By definition"? Are you retarded?
No definition of God includes the phrase 'beyond the reach of logic' or mentions logic or being outside the reach of anything. Do you just type things that you think sound smart?
I'm so tired of your down-voting. Come on! What's the problem? You can't even bring yourself to dispute, so you just click the down arrow? It's fine to disagree, but seriously don't abuse the system.
I don't think you understand the system. Usually, if you down-vote an argument, you use the dispute feature to express why you disagree or why the argument is flawed.
What are these arrows for then? Are those the never-to-be-clicked buttons? Am I not disputing enough of your silly arguments with sane counter augments? I seriously can't be here all day long writing lengthy responses to every silly ass comment you make. Enter, the down vote.
Oh didn't see this little comment. I have been looking for your responses to all the questions I've put to you on religion and I didn't see you whining here.
'White noise' is a really dumb movie. That's why I downvoted. You see Troy, that's what these buttons are for. In my opinion, 'white noise' is a dumb fuckin movie and Micheal Keaton is a chode(worst batman ever).
So that's one way we can express our opinions at this website. Do you understand?
After you started crying to the owner/moderator of creatdebate.com through the messaging feature, he messaged me and assured me that I am breaking no rules, my participation on this site is appreciated, and there is nothing wrong with my voting if it is based on opinion or fact, which of course it is.
you being a little coward again ....idiot
WTF? Since you open up the ad hominum attacks... Are you fucking stupid? Your activity page is filled with your arguments that I've disputed and you are ignoring, like a cowardly little bitch. I on the other hand have never backed down from anything on this site and I'm not about to let a bible thumping sheep like you push me around.
So those are the facts. You're a whiny assclown and I'm breaking no rules. If you want to keep going I'd be happy to make you look stupid again though.
Everyone Believes in something. There is no such thing as a religion free world. If we have it your way and get rid of everything else except evolution, then that would be the only religion in the world. Evolution is a religion! It takes faith as do all the rest. I admit mine takes faith, you all simply DON'T. I will say it again: Evolution is a faith/religion all it's own.
Are germs a religion? We can't see or hear or smell germs but people believe they are real. But people don't have faith in germs, they know that they are real because there is proof. When there is proof of a thing, no one has to have faith in it's realness. Faith becomes unnecessary.
With evolution faith has become utterly useless. Change in organisms over time can be seen with your own eyes though the fossil record available. The variety of animal species alone is evidence for evolution.
You can hold in your hands fossilized skulls found in ascending layers of the earth and carbon dated so that we know for a fact which order they go in. (such carbon dating destroys the notion that the earth is anywhere near the age the bible asserts) We can look at these fossils and see useful changes to the organism over time that has occurred though this survival of the fittest that we see all around us.
Anyone that observes nature can see survival of the fittest in action everywhere. Go outside and look at the plants in your backyard. There is an epic battle for survival going on. Only the prettiest flowers spread their pollen. Only the fittest seeds grow strong enough to fight though the weeds.
Flip on animal planet and watch a lion take down a gazelle or sharks hunting seals. Do you ever notice what happens to the injured gazelle or the seal that strays from the pack?
Evidence my friend, for most people it's an important thing. Do you have any evidence for what you believe?
3 a: knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method
b: such knowledge or such a system of knowledge concerned with the physical world and its phenomena : natural science
Webster's definition of SCIENTIFIC METHOD:
principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses
"Germs" are fully observable with the right equipment. Even with "equipment" Macro Evolution as you all so heavily ASSUME, is NOT observable (it takes faith).
I don't think anyone disputes that kinds of animals change within the Kind! Although, there are limits to how much change can occur. Where you all (evolutionists) step out of science and into religious classification is when you all preach one kind of organism changing into a different kind. There is NO proof.
You said:
"With evolution, faith has become utterly useless?"
I think faith is very much at work in everyones lives. You have to have faith in something, whether it be in Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Evolution, etc. even Atheism is a faith
Where exactly do Humans fit into your survival of the fittest.
Why do we (humans) feel so obligated to save such weak species?
You said:
"Change in organisms over time can be seen with your own eyes through the fossil record available."
All you know about those fossils are that they lived and died. You don't even know when it died. How do you even know that fossil had any kids to lead to the next "type" of organism? Exactly...you don't. Show me some examples.
Carbon Dating -You have created a problem for yourself in the statement:
"You can hold in your hands fossilized skulls found in ascending layers of the earth and carbon dated so that we know for a fact which order they go in."
Let me see if I understood you correctly. You can accurately tell how old they are by carbon dating, as long as you know which layer the fossil came out of?
Even if Carbon dating was accurate you could only go back 30k years or so due to the half life of C 14. So that proves exactly what I thought you were saying. By the layer in which the fossil came out of, you can prove the age by Carbon Dating. You simply don't know. You assume it's that age because you have given that particular layer of strata x age. Oh, and guess how that layer of strata got it's age...You dated that layer by the FOSSIL that came out of it. How does that make sense to you? Sounds like circular reasoning doesn't it?
You said:
"We can look at these fossils and see useful changes to the organism over time that has occurred though this survival of the fittest that we see all around us."
Do you have any examples of these mythical "useful" changes, that eventually lead to a whole new kind of creature?
You asked for evidence:
No, I do not have evidence for Creation. I fully admit that it takes faith to believe in God the Creator. You all are the ones that can't admit that it takes faith to believe in evolution.
What I believe:
Everything was created (by God) about 6000 years ago. Around 4400 years ago there was a global flood, and here we are today presently debating about where we came from.
What you believe:
About 20 billion years ago everything exploded from a "super condensed particle of matter and energy" 4.6 billion years ago the earth was a hot molten ball that cooled off and water started falling on it. The "Prebiotic Soup" was now made. Fast forward a few billion years and here we are today.
So, to deduce... I believe in the beginning God...You believe in the beginning Dirt.
It's pretty daunting to wade though this and point out all the problems here but I'll try.
Thank you for providing these definitions by the way, even though you clearly have no understanding of them. I'll be happy to use them against you though. Here's another definition for you since you don't seem to understand the meaning,
Faith
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
I don't think anyone disputes that kinds of animals change within the Kind! Although, there are limits to how much change can occur. Where you all (evolutionists) step out of science and into religious classification is when you all preach one kind of organism changing into a different kind. There is NO proof
Yet you concede there is proof that animals change within the "kind"? So change over time is occurring? Can you tell me what that means by the way, "kind"? Are you talking about families of animals or species or what? You don't seem to know very much about animals.
I think faith is very much at work in everyones lives. You have to have faith in something, whether it be in Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Evolution, etc. even Atheism is a faith
Faith is not at work at all in my life. All of the beliefs mentioned above require faith, except evolution. Evolution has been proven.
Why do we (humans) feel so obligated to save such weak species?
What species are we saving now? Does anyone know what this guy is talking about?
All you know about those fossils are that they lived and died. You don't even know when it died. How do you even know that fossil had any kids to lead to the next "type" of organism? Exactly...you don't. Show me some examples.
Carbon Dating -You have created a problem for yourself in the statement:
There is a lot more that can be learned from a fossil than, a thing lived and died. If you had studied how science and the scientific method has been applied in this area I wouldn't have to teach you now.
See, Carbon-14 dating completely destroys any notion that the earth is 6000 years old. With Carbon-14 dating, you can find out the age of any carbon based life up to about 58,000 to 62,000 years ago.
Luckily, radio carbon dating has been proven scientifically(link below) and that means there is indisputable, peer reviewed evidence that life has been here at least 50,000 years. (not 30,000)
Even if Carbon dating was accurate you could only go back 30k years or so due to the half life of C 14. So that proves exactly what I thought you were saying. By the layer in which the fossil came out of, you can prove the age by Carbon Dating. You simply don't know. You assume it's that age because you have given that particular layer of strata x age. Oh, and guess how that layer of strata got it's age...You dated that layer by the FOSSIL that came out of it. How does that make sense to you? Sounds like circular reasoning doesn't it?
Another high school science lesson that you must have slept though. Stratum deals with geology and carbon dating deals with chemistry. You know what geology, is right? Carbon dating and geological strata are totally separate sciences that validate and confirm each other. Do you understand? When you use geology to date something and then use chemistry to date it and the answer is the same, those two methods back each other up.
Do you have any examples of these mythical "useful" changes, that eventually lead to a whole new kind of creature?
Walking on land is an example of a useful change that eventually led to a whole new kind of creature, mammals.
Standing upright is an example of a useful change that eventually led to a whole new kind of creature, humans.
I could give you 1000 but I think 2 is enough for now.
What I believe:
Everything was created (by God) about 6000 years ago. Around 4400 years ago there was a global flood, and here we are today presently debating about where we came from.
Every single discipline of science disagrees with you. I've displayed how geology and chemistry completely dispute this statement. You can believe this horseshit if you'd like, but don't pretend you respect science.
What you believe:.....You believe in the beginning Dirt.
I don't really need to address this because it is so insanely stupid. You obviously have no idea what I believe.
To you as well thanks for looking up the definition of Faith it's funny you should mention that. Didn't it dawn on you that this definition sizes you up perfectly for believing in Macro Evolution? Again, I say I fully admit my belief of an Intelligent Creator is fully religious and is of faith. What I just can't wrap my mind around is how you simply don't or can't or won't admit that the Origins of Man are not explained or rather proven in the evolution idea. I will fully agree that things change but only to a certain extent. Micro evolution is absolutely science. We see that happening. I don't dispute that.
Whether I know a lot about animals or not makes no difference. I know enough to know evolution does NOT make sense, and certainly does not begin to answer the big question of "Where did we come from?"
Evolution has been proven? Show me proof. I want to see hard evidence. Exactly. There is NONE. Even some of your evolution buddies admit there simply is no evidence.
Carbon Dating - First off...IF it worked...big IF there, like you said it would show how old something is up to 30-50k years old. BUT You all make one HUGE assumption here. 6000 years ago was the C-14 in the atmosphere the same percentage? So your basis of carbon dating being accurate is flawed based simply on that assumption.
You gave these as examples:
"Walking on land is an example of a useful change that eventually led to a whole new kind of creature, mammals.
Standing upright is an example of a useful change that eventually led to a whole new kind of creature, humans.
I could give you 1000 but I think 2 is enough for now"
Are you kidding me? These are clearly opinions of which you derived that we came to be standing walking creatures. Show me an actual mutation that is beneficial.
You said:
"every single discipline of science disagrees with you. I've displayed how geology and chemistry completely dispute this statement. You can believe this horseshit if you'd like, but don't pretend you respect science."
I disagree completely. There are just as many scientist out there that believe in a Creator as do evolution.
As for the very last statement. It's very clear...there are two ways to look at the big question of "Where did we come from?" That is: There was a Creator, or the universe some how created and is sustaining itself. So yeah I assume since you are so bent on there is not a Creator then...I say you believe we came from dirt.
I'm haven't read your previous responses but I found quite a few errors in your post:
What I just can't wrap my mind around is how you simply don't or can't or won't admit that the Origins of Man are not explained or rather proven in the evolution idea
The reason he's not admitting it is likely because evolution does explain the origins of humans. Every species of life has a common ancestor with any other species. If you want to know the literal answer, it would be the first cell. That is where we originated. But then we wouldn't be talking about evolution, we would be talking about abiogenesis. What we don't know is exactly how it happened, we just know that it did happen. The Miler Urey experiment is one you will be referred to often when discussing abiogenesis. It simulated conditions thought to be similar to early Earth, the results were organic compounds made form inorganic material. What were these organic compounds? Amino acids, 20 different kinds of them it turns out.
I know enough to know evolution does NOT make sense
No, if you knew enough about evolution you would say it does make sense. I believe it because all the evidence and data confirms evolution. And this isn't just data from one field, but from many different fields of science, all independent from each other all painting the same picture. There isn't one piece of evidence refuting evolution or casting the theory into doubt.
Evolution has been proven? Show me proof. I want to see hard evidence.
The problem is, most anti evolutionists want us to teach them biology. Most have this "I won't believe in evolution, NO MATTER WHAT!", and they'll ignore all the evidence presented or say that none of my sources are reputable or valid. I don't know if you are like this, but I am willing to answer any questions you have.
Carbon Dating - First off...IF it worked...big IF there, like you said it would show how old something is up to 30-50k years old. BUT You all make one HUGE assumption here. 6000 years ago was the C-14 in the atmosphere the same percentage? So your basis of carbon dating being accurate is flawed based simply on that assumption.
There are different ways to date material. Carbon dating is just that, measuring the radioactive decay of a carbon atom. Carbon dating is just one type of radiometric dating, there are several other types that measure time scales much larger than just tens of thousands of years. There are other types like potassium argon dating and uranium lead dating, and many more. The only thing assumed about radiometric dating is that the rate of radioactive decay is constant. The amount of carbon in the atmosphere is irrelevant, so I don't know why you bring that up. We are not measuring amounts of carbon in the atmosphere, we are measuring the amount of radioactive decay.
Another thing that adds credibility to radiometric dating is the fact that the time scales of different forms of radiometric dating tend to overlap with each other, further verifying its accuracy.
Show me an actual mutation that is beneficial
I found a website that lists some beneficial mutations that have occurred in humans. They listed increased bone density, malaria resistance, and tetrachromatic vision. Click here for website
I disagree completely. There are just as many scientist out there that believe in a Creator as do evolution.
This isn't about what the scientists believe, because there are scientists who do believe in creationism (although not the majority). It is about what can be demonstrated through evidence and science. Not a single field of science supports creationism. There is no evidence for it.
As for the very last statement. It's very clear...there are two ways to look at the big question of "Where did we come from?" That is: There was a Creator, or the universe some how created and is sustaining itself. So yeah I assume since you are so bent on there is not a Creator then...I say you believe we came from dirt.
This only created an infinite regress problem. If you say that a Creator created the universe, then the question needs to be asked "what created the Creator?". If you say he's been there for eternity, then the same argument could be proposed for the universe being present for eternity as well.
There is no evidence for a creator, and in fact we likely came from inorganic material that formed into organic material. You can call it dirt if you'd like, I'll stick to inorganic material.
Evolution has been proven? Show me proof. I want to see hard evidence. Exactly. There is NONE.
You have been shown proof and hard evidence over and over again. You can't teach someone that wants to be ignorant.
6000 years ago was the C-14 in the atmosphere the same percentage? So your basis of carbon dating being accurate is flawed based simply on that assumption.
We can see that you have no idea how carbon dating works. As markml pointed out, the amount of carbon in the atmosphere is irrelevant. Carbon dating is based on the rate of radioactive decay. This information can be found in a few seconds doing a google search.
If you spent half the time learning about carbon dating as you have ranting against it you'd probably know more about it than us.
Same goes with evolution and the animal kingdom. You are arguing against a great man of science and you don't understand anything about science or nature. So far you haven't understood geological strata or how carbon dating works. You don't seem to know what a species is or family of animals is. I would bet a million dollars you have never read a word of Darwin's work. Have you? Origin of the Species, The Descent of Man? Do you have any idea what you debate against?
Show me an actual mutation that is beneficial.
Let us discuss Darwin's Galápagos finches. Of course you know about this because it is an integral part of Darwin's theory. I know that you wouldn't be on here if you were totally uninformed about the subject you are arguing against. In case you forgot here is a link.
So here we have 15 species of finches living in on an isolated island chain in the middle of the pacific. Originally this island chain probably had one or two species of finches but as certain individuals spread to new areas and ate different things their bodies, particularly their beaks, evolved to suit their new environments, diets and foraging tactics. Long narrow beaks evolved to pick insects out of bark and large powerful beaks evolved to break hard things open like nutshells.
It's very clear...there are two ways to look at the big question of "Where did we come from?" That is: There was a Creator, or the universe some how created and is sustaining itself. So yeah I assume since you are so bent on there is not a Creator then...I say you believe we came from dirt.
First off, there are a lot more than 2 ways to look at "the big question" and I am actually not "bent on there is not a creator". I am agnostic, I have mentioned this here many times and it's also right there in my profile. I do not believe in a magic man in the sky nor do I believe in magic inorganic 'dirt' becoming organic, living, reproducing cells.
I believe in science. I do not know if there was a creator of the universe, nor does any person.
Plain and simply, no it isn't. Evolution explains the change and development of life on earth. it says nothing about god/gods, meaning of life, morality, afterlife, faith, or anything else vaguely related to religion.
I think you'll find that's mainly in the areas where the majority of the people believe in religion. Over here in Britain, where many people are atheist, it's quite the opposite.
I guess my statement would be "less true" in places like britain and even where i live in canada but nonetheless this statement still stands for the majority of the christian world.
It's not "less true", it's the opposite. Most children brought up in atheist familes stay atheist, not because they have evidence tha science has disproved religion, but because atheism doesn't place moral boundaries on people.
We're trying to have a civilization here and there is a bunch of crazys blowing everyone up for allah and speaking in tongues and trying to teach our kids to hate each other. That's the problem.
Religion teaches violence and hate. The god of the Bible is a sexist, racist, violent, jealous, tyrant. Religion teaches hate for homosexuals, for the heathens that enjoy life's pleasures, for the infidel, pretty much anyone that is not like them. Mormons teach their kids that black people can go to heaven, but only as servants for white people. Some Muslims teach their kids that killing infidels is their ticket to heaven. Catholics are raping little kids right now and being shuffled around and protected by the church so they can keep on raping little kids.
So we're all trying to have a civilization here and live together, and you religious folks are lying to people, blowing people up and raping little kids. That's the problem.
I ONLY LOVE MY THINGS AND WORSHIP THEM AS MY GOD , LOVE MONEY AND POWER SITTING IN MY JUDGES CHAIR LOVING IT SO MUCH I HAVE A MACHINE MASTURBATING AWAY ON ME PULLING OUT VICIOUS WICKED EVIL POWER LOVING LOADS OF SATAN LOVING JUDICIAL JUICES . I WOULD BE A FOOL TO WANT TO EVER GO TO A church AGAIN TO worship SOME PHONEY WASHED UP MAKE BELIEVE god IN A GOOD FOR NOTHING holy book THAT I WOULD DESTROY UNDER THE WHEELS OF MY CHAIR . I ONLY WANT TO LOVE THE GOD OF MONEY AND POWER , GIVE ME MORE .
Can you please enlighten and tell us what "proof" you have that God exists (By the way do you mean THE God, or one of the other thousand Gods that "exist" around the world")
Are you asking for logical evidence, or do you want to know what make me believe?
If it's the first one, I don't have any logical proof of my belief.
Is it the second one? What makes me believe is, that I see God everywhere. I think it is .. really ridiculous (not to offend anybody in any way) but I think it is kinda weird to think all this came from nothing.
Where exactly do you see god? What does he look like?
Isn't it kinda weird to think all of this was created by a magic man living in the clouds? Who made 1 man and then 1 woman from the man's rib? Sorry but I fail to see how believing in god makes it any less weird.
Do I have any answers for you? No. But living your entire life based off something that can never be proven is a totally insane idea to me.
1) There are many scientific theories that actually have credence that I suggest you check out. I will not proclaim to believe any one in particular but at least there is some scientific basis/proof for all of them. At no point will you find a "magic cloud man" theory.
2) What exactly has he personally done for you and others? Specific examples of how he himself has intervened into your life to make your life better
3) So why would you devote your entire life to something that you know is crazy? Isn't it better to live your life the way you want to, because god or no god, there is no way we will ever know for sure. So why waste your time and live your life for something that probably doesn't exist?
4) It can't be proven but I don't devote large portions of my life to my atheism. When is the last time that atheism affected your life? When did an atheist impact your life? Because I can honestly say that a Christian and Christianity has affected my life every day of my life. Why should something that can't be proven be forced into my every day life?
1) Yeah I get that a lot. There are suggestions? What does that mean? Atheists I've debated with asked me to give them a logical reason why I believe in God. But all they can come up with are suggestions. I don't see why I should disbelieve something just because some guy suggested it.
2) I have clothes on my body, my stomach is full and a roof over my head. Unlike millions if not billions of people, I have those three blessings. I know what you're gonna ask next - why does he give me these things but not them? We don't all get the same, but we all get to Heaven, and no matter how terrible our lives were on earth, we will not think about it when we get to Heaven.
3) What makes you think I don't live my life as I want to? I want to be a good person. There is nothing bad with believing. I am not hurting anybody with my belief. No one is forcing me to believe, I chose it myself.
And to be 100% honest, I would rather believe in God and find out there wasn't any, than not believe in God and find out he actually existed.
4) Lol. When is the last time atheism affected my life? I am attacked by questions of all the atheist I know, they all try their hardest to get me to realize there is no God. And you say, that you have a better life? I don't see a good life with trying to get others to believe the same, that is what I call crazy obsession, not living life.
I'm not saying you do this. But I don't go around trying to convince people to believe, I don't ask people to come to church with me, because I know they are just as annoyed to be invited to church, as I am when they ask me questions about why I believe.
Why should something that can't be proven be forced into my every day life?
Why should something that can't be proven be forced into MY every day life? as I just told you, several atheist are obsessed about trying to make all christians nonbelievers.
You're belief can't be proven, my belief can't be proven, shall we live in peace together?
1) Some guy suggested that there was a god too. What's your point? The difference is that I will not try and defend one of those positions my entire life. Why do you believe in "the one true god" and not any of the other 100?
2) Pardon me? What kind of "god" is this then? So you get a cushy ride for 90 or so years while others are tortured their entire lives not being able to eat and dyeing of disease? I'm sorry but this is an incredibly awful statement to say. "We will not think about it when we get to Heaven." Really? What if there is no heaven? Then you've had a full belly all your life and others have starved?
You have clothes on your body, a full stomach and a roof over your head because YOU went out and worked to earn money to buy those things. At no point did "god" have any influence on this situation.
3) Believing in "god" does not inherently make you a good person. Too many Christians think that because they are christian that that makes them a good person automatically. Yes, maybe you are not hurting anybody but religion as a whole is hurting people. There are wars fought over it, rights denied because of it, and decisions influence as a result of it. So what happens if Thor is a real god? Or Allah? You don't believe in them? If you would "rather believe in God and find out there wasn't any, than not believe in God and find out he actually existed" shouldn't you be covering all your bases and believe in all gods? Otherwise, that statement has no merit.
4) I didn't say I had a better life. Christians have been trying to convert people for millennia. If you don't do this then all the more power to you. I actually have no qualms with people who quietly believe in something. It's when they preach that I'm going to hell because I (and the other 5 billion people who aren't christians) don't believe in "god". And yes, Christianity affects my life in North America. Society is based on christianity and it is impossible to get away from it. I'm not sure if you are American or not (I'm from Canada), but U.S. money literally says "In God We Trust." There is the song "God Bless America." "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help me God." How does this make an atheist, or a buddhist, or a muslim feel?
We can certainly live in peace together. I am not hostile toward Christians. In fact most of my family are christian. I was baptized, my grandma attends church every sunday. However, at no point in public or society have you been forced to "swear to atheism" or anything of this nature. Face it, north american society is based on christianity. I don't like this. I don't want any part of it. So until this aspect gets out of my life, as well as those christians who preach constantly that non-believers are going to hell, I will continue to debate against it!
1) I believe there that the Christian God is the only God, but I am a little agnostic, I believe everything is possible.
2) I know I know, I guess what I meant is when we get to Heaven it was worth it or something. I'm not sure what I meant to say. If there is no Heaven? Then there is no Heaven, as I said everything is possible.
You have clothes on your body, a full stomach and a roof over your head because YOU went out and worked to earn money to buy those things. At no point did "god" have any influence on this situation.
Wow you're such a genius. Why aren't all the people in the world just working to get out of their starvation and torture? Why don't we all just go to work?
I could easily be born in some part of the world, where I would have to struggle for .. a zip of water.
God blessed me with a job, so I could earn money.
3) I am aware of that, but still. The bible holds a lot of wise words, that no matter if you're Christian or not you should follow. Like loving your neighbor and stuff, you know what I'm talking about right?
What others believe, or what religion does to the world I cannot change. I can only change what I do, and I am not trying to hurt anybody on purpose. I've never participated in any wars..
5) I am from the Faroe Islands, it's in Europe :) And I do agree with you on the money and the national song thing. I think it is stupid to chose a religion for a country. People should be able to decide for themselves whether they want to believe or not.
Btw. about the 5 billion people who are going to hell, I just wanted to comment that I don't believe in any place called Hell.
Where I go to church, we baptize people when they're adults. They chose for themselves, if someone wants to be baptized they go to the priest, and they will. I was never forced to anything, maybe except Sunday school as a kid, but I think that was good for me if you look at it socially. There were a lot of children there, and that's kind of where I got my first friends and stuff, so even though I didn't believe today, I would never wish my parents didn't send me to Sunday school.
1) Then your argument of not knowing for sure and being safe rather than sorry if there is a god is false. There is a 1 in 100 chance (estimate) you are wrong, and that's only if there is a god/gods.
2) Ya I am such a genius. I went to school, got good grades, got a job and now feed, clothe and shelter myself. Silly me, if I had known that all I had to do was pray for it I wouldn't have had to work so hard! How is it that I accomplished all of those things yet I didn't pray for it? And what about the starving christians who are praying for it that are hungry, cold and naked? Again your argument is flawed. God did not bless you with a job. Why would you sell yourself short? Why would you assume that the only reason you have a good job is because of god? I don't know you but I would assume that since you have a good job YOU worked hard for it. I feel that christianity takes away accomplishments from individuals by chalking it all up to "god".
3) I do know what you're talking about. But I have never and will never read the bible. Yet I am a very good person. I help my neighbours out with things they need. I haven't killed anyone. I honour my parents.
You also forget about all of the negative aspects of the bible. The fact that if your child is a false prophet you should stone them to death. Or, if you work on Sunday you should be killed. How can you say that the bible provides a moral compass when it is filled with garbage like this?
4) If you don't believe in hell then most christians would assert that you are not a christian. I could care less what you or others believe. But this is the divisive nature of religion. If you don't believe exactly what others believe you are an outcast.
1) actually it's fifty fifty, either there is or there is no God.
2) I didn't say I didn't work for my success. But still I have a LOT to thank for. You said so yourself, you see tortured people everywhere, don't you think you are lucky?
Don't you think you have a lot to be thankful for? I don't mean thankful to God but ..
3) Well I am not gonna ask you to read it, although I think it is kind of silly, when people start debating with me about christianity, when they haven't read the bible.
What if I started to debate about Harry Potter books, even though I never read them? That would just be silly and pointless.
My point there was, that the bible doesn't ONLY carry errors or fairy tales. It has actually some wise words.
I know that the bible has errors, I don't believe the bible though, I believe in God.
4)
Define christian: A person who believe in Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit.
Whether I believe there is a Hell or not, or whether I am baptized or not doesn't matter.
I don't care very much about if other christian think I'm not one, they can call me what they want.
If you don't believe exactly what others believe you are an outcast.
What point are you trying to make?
Aren't we all outcasts when it comes to religion? I mean, we all have our personal point of views.
1) Nope not even close. If there is "your god" why can't there be others? So if there is 1 there can literally be thousands.
2) I'm lucky that my parents worked hard to have enough money for food, clothes and shelter. And that their parents did the same. And their parents before them. I am also thankful to live in Canada; one of the best countries in the world. I have a good job that I worked extremely hard for. At no point did I pray for it. End of story.
3) It would be silly and pointless if you were trying to say that there was such thing as wizards and witches. I'm not debating the various verses or the "plot" of the bible. I'm not saying it's well written or boring or anything like that. Therefore your analogy doesn't work in this situation.
You believe in god but not the bible, but the bible is the word of god is it not?
4) If only we were so lucky that everyone could have our own personal point of views. Unfortunately as I stated before christianity has seeped it's way into my life in many fashions. If I were to state publicly that I didn't believe in god I would most certainly be judged. I wasn't taking anything away from your faith because I actually believe anyone can believe anything they want. Mormon, christian, muslim, scientologist - they are all as ridiculous as the next in my mind.
1) I didn't mean a particular God. Either there is a God or there is not.
3) The bible is kind of what christianity is. If you want your arguments to be valid in such a debate, I recommend you read it.
The bible is a book written by Humans, inspired by God. Human beings aren't perfect, we all make mistakes. There were hundreds if not thousands who participated in writing the bible - and then there were those who translated it. That's why I rely on what God tells directly to me, and not what I read in the bible.
4) I agree with you here, if I told the people in my church, that I don't believe in any place called Hell .. they would probably kind of shocked since that's the thing we learn about there.
1) So it could be Allah up there then? Or Buddah? Or Thor? Why are christians so arrogant to believe that it's their god up there? When 5 billion other people think it's someone else.
3) The bible is a work of fiction. Sorry, but if I want a good read I'll read something else. I have no interest to read a 2000 year old work of fiction that too many nut jobs have taken literally, or twisted it's words to fit their needs.
And what exactly has god directly told you? You realize outside of religion if I told people that an invisible sky man told me to do something I would probably be committed right?
1) Why are atheists so arrogant to believe there is no God up there?
Besides, I am a little agnostic, so I believe everything is possible. That doesn't make me arrogant does it?
3) If you aren't interested in reading it, why are you interested in debating abou tit?
Yeah, you would call me crazy, but frankly I don't care. I share this with 1/3 of the world population you know? This isn't something I made up. I have friends who say the same, they talk to God and God talks to us.
1) It is two separate arguments. You're missing my main point which is if every condition existed to prove that your god is really up there in the sky, why then could every other person's god not be up there too? If magic existed that would allow a magical sky daddy to live in the clouds, why then could there not be thousands of them? That is the issue I am trying to say. The arrogance of religion is that everyone thinks they are right. There are 6 billion people on the planet and among those 6 billion people there are literally hundreds of religions and gods. Why is yours the only one that is real?
3) Have you read the Quaran? The Torah? How do you know that your bible is right if you haven't read the texts of the other religions around the world? Why are you interested in proclaiming that your bible is correct when you haven't read any of the other hundreds of "holy works" throughout history?
You do share this crazy belief with a large portion of the world population, but thankfully through the years religious belief is slowly subsiding. Not as quickly as I would hope granted, but people are becoming less and less religious.
I think you are not reading my replies propertly. I said I am agnostic theist - that means I believe everything is possible, BUT what I feel strongest about is christianity. Therefore I am not arrogant.
2) I don't think I am 'claiming' that the bible is the aboslute truth. If I did make you think so I am very sorry.
I believe the bible - if it's the truth, time will tell.
Why do you think that is?
I think one of the main reasons is that now you can chose what you believe. You don't have to go very longer than 100 years back in time, where people who didn't believe in any God were killed.
So, what happened to the second argument a few posts up because I'd like to know too, Birgitsiv. How has god influenced your life?
In my opinion, if god can be believed in at all, then he is the creator only. He is the cause to the effect we see in the big bang. He is the initiator. Things have been set in place by him; god has created the laws of science (time and space and physics, evolution and biology, etc) to govern our universe and that is it. In that case, I see no evidence of 'god' interacting with his creation at all.
But apparently you do. You claim to be a prophet of the creator himself and that he personally favors you and blesses you. How and why does he do so?
Do you not feel responsible for what you and your life has become at all? If it is all just in gods hands then our efforts are truly meaningless and any true christian should be "blessed" as well. Many believers are not 'blessed' though. Why is that so?
So, what happened to the second argument a few posts up because I'd like to know too, Birgitsiv. How has god influenced your life?
in so many ways, many ways I can't explain. So many ways that it would take me forever to tell you everything.
It is almost impossible to really tell you, because .. yeah it just is.
But I will try of course.
When I feel down, when I feel sad .. I turn to God and everything just .. brightens up a bit.
I've prayed several times, and I've often tried to get what I prayed for.
When I am in church I feel so safe, I feel God beside me - not just in church of course. Everywhere.
I just feel so safe and happy whenever I read the bible or am in a meeting in church or something.
I see no evidence of 'god' interacting with his creation at all.
I get your point .. but seriously. Try to look logically at the bible, even though there isn't much logic in it .. but do it anyway.
The bible tells us God is all powerful right ? So if he were all powerful, he would also be able to delete all tracks from him creating the world, wouldn't he ?
Or he would be able to simply not leave tracks behind him.
But then you could ask why he would do that, and I don't know the answer to this. I believe he has a reason, whatever it is.
How and why does he do so?
I don't know. I'm not God, I can't answer for him. All I know is, that he does.
Many believers are not 'blessed' though. Why is that so?
When you say blessed, do you mean like .. saved ?
Because that isn't true. The bible says (john 3,16) That if you believe you are saved, no matter what.
But some people are in church every sunday, they pray and they read the bible, they do everything a christian does - but what they don't do is believing. They are not saved. If you don't believe, you're not saved.
But I don't believe that really. I believe everyone is saved, no matter if you believe or not.
Because when Jesus died on the cross, he yelled 'it's done' (or something like that .. my bible isn't english, so I don't know what the english words are)
What was done ? Saving 1/3 of the world ? What kind of celebration is that?
Oh shit, it's Sunday. All the Christians just got out of brainwashing school :)
When I feel down, when I feel sad .. I turn to God and everything just .. brightens up a bit.
When I am in church I feel so safe, I feel God beside me - not just in church of course. Everywhere.
I just feel so safe and happy whenever I read the bible or am in a meeting in church or something.
I know the feeling very well. Church use to feel like a safe place for me too. Unfortunately, what you are finding comfort in is not god.
It is a beautiful thing to be convinced that your soul is taken care of. Religious folks walk around believing there is a place in the afterlife for them and their families. If you can put aside logic and science, it is definitely the way to go. I truly miss the peace of mind I use to have when I was religious.
I loved santa clause when I was a kid too. Christmas eves' when you thought Santa was coming to your house, that was magical. When you're an adult and you know better, Christmas kind of loses it's magic though. That's how I feel about church too.
I see no evidence of 'god' interacting with his creation at all.
I get your point .. but seriously. Try to look logically at the bible, even though there isn't much logic in it .. but do it anyway.
That is a great idea. Watch out though, because it's going to get messy.
The bible tells us God is all powerful right ? So if he were all powerful, he would also be able to delete all tracks from him creating the world, wouldn't he ?
Or he would be able to simply not leave tracks behind him.
God actually goes a few steps past just "deleting" his tracks. Apparently god has also planted false evidence all over creation. Carbon dating can scientifically prove, for a fact, that the earth is at least many million years old. Geological strata, the fossil record and historical evidence would all have to be elaborate illusions that god is using to cover up the truth. If this is true, god must be very tricky indeed, and not want us to know the answers.
If you don't believe, you're not saved.
But I don't believe that really. I believe everyone is saved, no matter if you believe or not.
I believe that he saved everyone on that cross.
You sound a little conflicted, as any logical person trying to believe this garbage would be. I'm going to look at the bible logically like you said and pose a question: If Jesus died for my sins, why does it matter what I do or think? Logically, either my sins are paid for, or they are not. If Christ really did die for my sins, I'm going to sin. It would be a shame to waste already-paid-for sins right?
I know the feeling very well. Church use to feel like a safe place for me too. Unfortunately, what you are finding comfort in is not god.
I get that you don't believe so, but I do.
I don't have evidence or .. yeah I don't have any proof what so ever that my religion is real - all the evidence I've got are, that I feel and believe.
I know it sounds ridiculous. But I am not hurting people with my faith.
You can say that christians have killed millions through the years, and christians are the ones who cause all wars and stuff.
But those people aren't me .. I haven't killed or started war, I can't take responsibility for people, just because they believe the same as I do.
Carbon dating can scientifically prove, for a fact, that the earth is at least many million years old
Yeah, I also believe it is.
What I think is, that a 'year' in the bible time is supposedly not 365 days. Because they hadn't equipments to find out how long it took the earth to circle the sun - in 1400 they still thought the sun was traveling around the earth.
So I believe, that what the bible says is a year or a week .. a month or even a day or an hour, could be much, much more than what we call a year, month, week or day.
If Christ really did die for my sins, I'm going to sin. It would be a shame to waste already-paid-for sins right?
Yes I do believe that your sins are already paid for. I also believe you can do whatever you want, you will still get into Heaven.
But it's just about how I feel. I mean .. when I steal and lie and do other sins, I feel terrible.
So if you can go around doing these things, with your conscience up top .. then it's okay. But personally for me, I don't wanna do that.
You sound a little conflicted, as any logical person trying to believe this garbage would be. I'm going to look at the bible logically like you said and pose a question: If Jesus died for my sins, why does it matter what I do or think? Logically, either my sins are paid for, or they are not. If Christ really did die for my sins, I'm going to sin. It would be a shame to waste already-paid-for sins right?
The typical christian belief is that if you don't accept Jesus as your saviour, you are not saved, and therefore will go to hell.
I don't believe this - I think it would be rediculous to sacrifice your own son, just so 1/3 of the world can be saved.
I believe Jesus saved EVERYONE, not just the people who will believe, but all sins that were made and were yet to make.
So I believe that you will see me in Heaven, although you don't believe.
I do believe you have a choice though, I don't think God will force people to be with him. I believe you will have the choice of living with him for all eternity, or just delete your existence. I don't believe in any place called Hell.
The bible sais that Jesus defeated Satan on the cross - if that is so, then satan is dead.
In God We Trust on our money is the most annoying. And then the additional words added on the pledge of allegiance after it was written. "Under God"? I don't want to say that. I don't believe in a god. I do believe in my country, or I did.
Now it feels like I'm an enemy. Even though there are lots of nice Christians, I still know my gay friend is discriminated against. Perhaps not murdered like he would be 100 years ago, but he is certainly teased and he's gotten quite a few "You'll burn in hell"s too.
It is like that for me too. As an atheist, I am surrounded by people who as Birggy said, they believe something that is crazy.
How am I supposed to feel? Safe? Happy? No, I see science being called a hoax and I see religious war and I see intolerance because of religion.
It is painful to try to debate a person who is nice like you are Birggy, but in general, most Christians I meet are very close minded and hateful, with that "Don't judge" attitude, where you know they judge you in their head, but they only outwardly show pity.
It is a tough situation, but by informing people that what they believe might not actually be true, despite what many believe, perhaps I can help lessen the pain that is thrust upon gays and atheists, likely the last oppressed people.
The Bible has kept women as the stupid person who should be obedient to men, with the whole Adam and Eve story, but even that's breaking away.
Slavery has ended as well, in most places, slavery being mainly justified in the highly religious south, back when it was legal.
It is just sad that I have to live with religion. I like the people, but the religion? Nope.
Aww, sorry. I heard someone else call you it, and to be honest, I can't type your name. Even while looking at it, it's too complicated to type. I can type all this nonstop for minutes straight, typing fast, but to try to spell your name is too painful.
Sure friend, allow me first to point out that proving a negative is impossible. I cannot prove that a thing "does not" exist, no one can. Proving that a god does not exist may be impossible, but I can certainly disprove your god of the bible.
So lets start with modern dating methods. Carbon-14 dating proves that the earth is at least 50 thousand years old. This destroys any notion of the earth being 4 to 10 thousand years old as the bible and many christians assert.
You see, all living things (that we know of) contain carbon. Luckily, carbon decays at a consistent, regular rate that can be observed in real time. What we do is measure the amount of radioactive decay of the carbon in an object, and that tells us how old the thing is.
That is just one proven method of dating an object. Besides radiometric dating techniques, there are about a dozen other ways to date something. Natural Dating Techniques using geological strata are also available. Electromagnetic Dating Techniques can date objects up to a million years old if it is found in a dry environment. Chemical Dating Techniques like bone-nitrogen dating can also date any piece of bone on the planet and get an accurate result.
Every method contradicts the bible's account of the world, every single one. If you believe in carbon and nitrogen and amino acids; if you believe in science at all, the bible's account of things must be rejected.
Aside from modern dating methods, you must overcome the fossil record, evolution, survival of the fittest, historical artifacts over 10k years old, the earths geological strata and the bibles many contradictions to itself. In order to believe the bible, you cannot believe in archeology, paleontology, geology, chemistry, radiology, biology, physics, material sciences or earth sciences.
You have to pick science or religion, you can't believe both.
Since we are human, we will not agree because it is in our nature. I believe all people should have a right to believe what they will, religion should not be inflicted. A real God, is strong enough to not need people to brainwash people, and Jesus has proven worthy. I don't go around telling people they have to accept Jesus, people see and feel something stir within them, and they search. There is a God, I've done my research into evolution, and world religions, as so have a lot of people before me, and found Jesus as the truth, like he said. This is more then religion, it's relationship. This is the only God (literally, only one) who doesn't ask us to work to get to him, but gave everything to come to us.
People should be allowed to believe what they deem right. I find it funny that an atheist thinks their purpose in life is to tell others they have no purpose and are merely accidental. When I can see people searching for something, something to live for, searching for love and hope, during the late nights when they're on their own.
Because it is true. You are right to wonder why Christianity is still here from an evolutionary perspective... But the fact that is still here is proof in of itself that Christianity is true.
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Thats not a fact... its here because religion is a good form of control, the message of christianity itself may be true, but that true message has been long forgotten
It's not like Christianity is this monolithic, unified system of belief. When people claim that they believe in Christianity, they are talking about their understanding of what Christianity means to them. My strong suspicion, is that disadvantaged people, find others who actually care about them in groups that identify as Christian, so that goes a long way. People like to feel like they are part of a loving, caring group of people who aren't stuck up. A lot of the "Christian" ideology that I've been exposed to shows concern for the poor, and those regarded as low type people. (And this is the majority) I'm not saying that non-christian groups don't spend any time doing community outreach, or working to instill hope in people who are poor, or societal outcasts etc.. But if my opinion of Christianity is valid, helping those who aren't doing well is a definitively (though not exclusively) Christian value.
I agree with your general view, but would it be right to call those people Christians? Anyone can join a social group and, not lie, but exaggerate their position to fit in.
I don't know if you did the same as a child, but let's say you were part of a large group of friends that loved, say, Star Trek. Chances are that you'd identify yourself as a Trekkie, whilst not really following the core aspects of the trend (admittedly, I can't think of what moral values Trekkies preach right now ;)
Perhaps this is a topic for another debate, but I suppose what I'm asking is as to what level you must believe in system X in order to classify yourself as an X-ist.
Beacause we chose to what's it to you anyway why can't you just leave us the hell alone go pick on another religion for a change you arrogant conseded pricks
- do you even check spelling etc before you post a new debate?
depite the lack of evidence and the many flaws in it
- again do you even check spelling?
What flaws? Give some examples. Which version of the bible are you using? I think if you were to use the KJV everything would answer itself, and wouldn't show any "flaws." I'm not rejecting the other versions of the bible. I do think that people can get saved by them, although in the argument of flaws or contradictions. Yes, you might find some in the other versions, but I don't think you will in the KJV.
I think the fact that different versions of the Bible exist kind of speaks for itself. If the Bible wasn't flawed, why was it so heavily edited and altered? Why were whole gospels left out of changed at the whim of medieval monarchy and clergy? Evidently, it had some flaws that needed to be smoothed over, some distasteful parts that had to be left out, and some divinity to be fabricated.
One big reason there are so many versions is the fact that Christians keep trying to fit Evolution into the scheme of things where it simply is not scriptural. Stop trying to put it in when it goes against everything the bible asserts.
Er... while I agree evolution is not scriptural, how can versions of the Bible like the King James Version (very popular) have been made to accommodate a theory that wouldn't exist until around 200 years after it was made?
As for fabricated divinity, well, there's some substantial evidence that Jesus existed and walked this earth and had a message, but there is no infallible, tangible evidence of his miracles or his status as the son of god; we have to take those things on faith via the Bible. So in regards to the people who wrote the Bible, I would say that's fabricating divinity.
For a more direct example of Christian clergy completely making up a very popular Christian notion of god, look at the Trinity. Made up post-Bible, the Trinity attempts to confer god's divine status on Jesus by inexplicably saying that they are both separate and the same entity.
As for fabricated divinity, well, there's some substantial evidence that Jesus existed and walked this earth and had a message, but there is no infallible, tangible evidence of his miracles or his status as the son of god; we have to take those things on faith via the Bible. So in regards to the people who wrote the Bible, I would say that's fabricating divinity.
The Bible actually does discretely teach about the Trinity.
If we want to get into the Trinity talk heres a couple of interesting points I will add to that. You say the whole trinity talk was brought up post bible, Just look at the first 10 words of the bible.
Gen 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth."
Here we have not the reference to his trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) but 3 separate trinity of trinities.
"In the beginning..." - A clear reference to time.
"...Heaven and the earth." - reference to space and matter.
So there is our list of trinities. Time, Space, Matter. Which each of these are separate trinities as well.
Time - Past, Present, Future
Space - Height, Length, Depth
Matter - Solid, Liquid, Gas
I find it interesting that in the first 10 words of the bible we find a trinity of trinities. Maybe not mentioned in text but presumed is the trinity of God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) as well as how we are made (Body, Soul, Spirit)
For your miracle evidence. If there were evidence of a miracle it wouldn't be a miracle now would it?
The minimum length for an argument is 50 characters. The purpose of this restriction is to cut down on the amount of dumb jokes, so we can keep the quality of debate and discourse as high as possible.
Well I have to say that the person or people that wrote the bible are real good in predicting the future. Those of you that have read the Bible know that most things in it has came to past. Including this discussion, so if you believe or not it’s your choice and your life.
It's not that there is proof. There really isn't much evidence at all. That's the point.
It's that Christianity, and religion in general, gives value and meaning to your existence. Therefore, people who seek such value sometimes settle for religion.
And a valueless life leads to self-destructive hedonism.
The problem in the end, therefore, is that organized religion and cultural hedonism are both extremely bad for society, and at the same time, disparate of one another. The problem isn't religion, the problem is religion and hedonism growing in disparity and cultural hostility to one another. One day, we will have to either do away with both of them once and for all, or else they will clash head on and our society will collapse around the world, like the Roman Empire.
Because it is natural for mankind to believe in a god or gods. Need proof? Ancient humans to modern day humans have been doing it since the beginning of man.
Primitive? As compared to what? Modern day science? That's laughable, we're just as primitive as we were back then. The only difference is we think we know it all. Science knows jack and shit, and jack left town, you do the math.
Christians still believe in their god because they choose to. The proof is there, the proof is the human mind, the proof is the human being. We're the proof.
Primitive? As compared to what? Modern day science? That's laughable, we're just as primitive as we were back then. The only difference is we think we know it all. Science knows jack and shit, and jack left town, you do the math.
Yes, ancient civilizations automatically assumed some deity caused a specific event. That IS primitive. We are MUCH more knowledgeable about things now than we were then. And no, science never claims to know everything. Science is still relatively young; it cannot possible know everything yet. But we DO now know many things about the universe.
Christians still believe in their god because they choose to. The proof is there, the proof is the human mind, the proof is the human being. We're the proof.
Yes, Christians somehow retain their ignorance and continue believing their absurd claims. However, Christianity has NO proof, hence faith.
Because of the fact they constantly ignore scientific theories, even if those theories have an enormous amount of evidence of evidence to support them(evolution, the Big bang theory, etc); whereas, their belief in God has NO evidence whatsoever.
Their belief in god is based on faith, that's really the point, there is no physical evidence other than us humans being the most complex species we, even science, knows of.
I am a man of faith and I no not ignore scientific theories. In fact, I personally believe in forms of evolution, darwinism, ect. I believe evidence is apparent that life forms (various forms of life) have evolved over time and humans are the end all; not to say that mankind cannot evolve, but we'd still be human. This belief of mine does not bare any opposition against my beliefs in creationism, or that we were created; for us to exist, there must have been something to begin the "domino effect", if you will.
I also do not ignore the theory of the big bang, because it actually supports my belief that we were created, the big bang could be simply the physical representation of god, starting the "domino effect" called life.
I believe in many other aspects of science, gravity is obvious, math is obvious (our human minds created numbers and apply them); the number is not what is important, it is what the number represents. I believe in quantum physics and mechanics. I believe in the butterfly effect. I believe that color is a representation of white.
No I do not. I believe the earth is somewhere around a couple thousand million years old (but who really knows, it's all guess-timation) and us modern humans are about 200,000 years back, but once again, this is all guess-timation.
