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RSS ElSaloriko

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1 point

Okay, break this down for me: Satan rebels against God due to his pride. Despite knowing that Satan would do this, God lets it happen because free will. Then Satan gathers up angels to rebel against him. Despite knowing that he would do this and that Satan would be able to convince these angels, he again allows it because free will. Then they rebel and (naturally) lose. This- for some reason- is apparently enough for God to believe that they deserve some kind of eternal punishment for daring to disobey.

Fine. But... exactly what did I do to "deserve Hell"? I didn't gather up angels and rebel against your god, I didn't "distort [his] image", whatever that means. I don't believe they exist! Explain why this is worthy of eternal torture. Or some kind of permanent retribution.

1 point

It's worth noting that this is the interpretation that was held by the Church Fathers. Paul in particular is shown to be quite enthusiastic towards the return of his Christ Jesus in 1 Thessalonians (Estimated to have been written in the 50s).

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord."- 1 Thess. 4:16-17.

We get a similar sentiment in the next chapter.

"For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord [a]will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, “ Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober... For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing."- Thess. 5:2-11. Paul is encouraging the flock to be watchful; after all, God is like a thief in the night, and will arrive any day now!

The Gospel writers, particularly the original author of Mark, seem to have had similar sentiments. Observe:

And Jesus was saying to them, “ Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”- Mark 8:39-9:1.

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."- Mark 13:30.

For reference, a [generation] usually meant approximately 40 years.

What exactly is Mark referring to here? Well, what was Jesus just talking about?

"“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven."- Mark 13:24-26.

And just to ram the point home?

"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door."- Mark 13:29.

The fact remains that the Church believed in an immediate apocalypse: if Jesus existed whether or not he actually preached this is unclear; given the climate at the time and the tendency of those like him, he probably did. But that's irrelevant, because it's what Paul and the other earliest Church writers (You can find similar sentiments in Matthew and Luke) believed.

You can argue that what Jesus was predicting DID happen via Preterism, but to argue for his glorious return, the Rapture (which was completely made up of whole cloth; it can't be found anywhere in the Bible), et al is likely is a rather... naive attitude, given what the texts actually state.

Supporting Evidence: Source for Biblical quotations (All NSAB) (www.biblegateway.com)
3 points

"Jesus didn't use magic. He performed miracles in God's name and He cast demons out and healed the sick. He overcame evil with good."

Definition of magic from the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

"an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source".

Unless you claim that Jesus' powers were not "extraordinary", or that the source that Jesus got his powers from- the omnipotent power of God- is not supernatural, then Jesus' miracles are magical by definition.

Absolutely nothing you posted disputed that Jesus' miracles were magical; it was all just a bunch of spin. Explain how anything you posted there demonstrated that Jesus' miracles were not magical.

Supporting Evidence: Definition of magic (Merriam-Webster) (www.merriam-webster.com)
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Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Political Party: Democrat
Country: United States
Religion: Atheist

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