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How is the fear of death and no belief in god irrational? Death to an atheist means the ultimate end to their awareness and physical body. They have more to fear in death than theists do. Religious followers believe in a complicated and multi faceted afterlife, each religion structuring their own. They believe this is just one step, that they will continue to exist after this. Being afraid of no longer existing in a conscience viable platform is something we should all fear. Its not irrational at all. It goes along with our basic human instinct to survive.
I like the use of blind faith vs. honest inquiry. Not all atheists are bible hating thugs. Some are good and moral people, doing the best they can with what information is available to them.
I can say that regardless of ones theological beliefs, we all look at the world around us in awe. It is amazing the trillions of living and growing things around us. The wide range of minerals and wildlife that are all balanced together. Each supporting a small piece of the entire system. Religious believers look around at what god created and imagine the work and care involved. Non religious believers look at the millions of years of survival and trial and error, each species developing excruciatingly slow. Adapting to the world around them. No matter what we believe, we see the wonders all around us.
I agree with a good portion of what you are saying. I believe that religion was a way to pass on morals and standards to other generations without them being questioned. I don't think people are stupid for believing in what they do, its a way for them to answer the most basic questions that humans have. Regardless of the accuracy of anyones belief, they give people hope and some piece of mind.
I know you aren't talking about Christianity, because God wants you to have a reason to believe in Him.
Romans 1: 20
For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.
That assumes complete authenticity of the bible, and the absolute fact that Christianity is the only correct language. All religious doctrine has been written and many times translated by humans. Regardless of the truthfulness of the content, you can't say for 100 percent certainty that all the words and grammar are perfect. Many translations from one language to another have varied meanings, mostly up to specific interpretation. The many different versions of the bible and proven inconsistencies between many similar religions prove just that. The roman catholic church follows the same doctrine of many different religions, yet interpret many things different. I live a moral and upstanding life. I strive to help people around me and follow many of the same morals as theists. The only real difference is what goes through my head when I think of death and beyond. If you believe my choice to no believe will condemn me, then so be it. Its your right to do so.
I feel that our very basic infant knowledge of the world around us is not a proof for your beliefs. Think of what was unimaginable years ago. People with diseases like schizophrenia and other now understandable ailments were once chalked up to some demon or attack from Satan. Don't us our lack of informational development as an argument. Many things that at one time were considered a religious issue are now highly accepted and daily technology. We learned information and answered a question. No one can answer all questions, and that's why this remains a deeply trenched and volatile debate. Each side striving to answer the glaring flaws that each side has. Not likely to ever be answered but well accept many many of us.
I totally see what your trying to do here. I also believe that the current ways we interact with each other on a national scale is very poor. But I disagree with this method. Each country has their own methods of developing patriotism and national pride. Some are obviously more effective than others. I don't believe that the pledge of allegiance to any country is a real way to do so. It helps to support an already established sense of pride, but does little to create one. A repeated statement, regardless of the content is not pride. People taking notice of whats around them, and being proud of the actions of their nation as a whole is what will create pride. Many of our conversations on create debate is evidence of pride. We are taking notice of the downfalls of our society and are concerned enough to want to figure out a better way to interact with each other. The pledge of allegiance is a unified way for us to express the way we support and care for our nation and fellow citizens. A better way to achieve the same goal is to create a sense of humanity alongside our national pride. We need to look at other nations as different people isolated by geographic location, not different people separated by different wants and beliefs. We should want to help them move forward and be successful. We are not in competition with them. We are all ultimately fighting for the same goals. Just some peoples priorities are different and their social progression is at different stages. Acceptance and a real sense of morals will go much further than a vocal string of words.
Was going to add an argument, but you covered it. Also, many very worthwhile and helpful bill have failed, because of the attached ride alongs. Forcing single issue bills will make them actually give full attention to each issue, not on one big issue and let someone else worry about the rest.
From what I can see while reading over the posts, that the atheist are actually putting forth some kind of argument while your side is doing nothing but bashing. Your generalizing an entire belief structure over a few down votes. Your inability to allow people to believe things outside of your own beliefs is archaic and a form of bigotry. I am aware that this forum structure gets much abuse from people idely voting down and bashing. So to counter it, offer solid debate, with well constructed ideas and quite complaining.
I disagree, the evolution of human morals and a family based social structure is a direct result of religious followers interpreting those metaphors and following their guidelines. They are not stupid, they are exercising their right to do so. I don't agree with them in any way shape or form. But the structure based on fear and cause and effect have helped us create a world not based on compulsion and instinct, but on right and wrong. I am grateful that the world has developed as such and given me the opportunity to live in relative safety and with the freedom to choose what I believe.
I usually overlook and ignore debates like this that have no real purpose but to bash one group of people, that most likely just believe something different than the debate creator. But Ill bow down to curiosity and join in. No they aren't stupid, not in the least bit. Everyone has their own complicated belief sets and everyone has them for a reason. If someone believes their is no religious deity than so be it. Most atheist don't put down people that have religious beliefs, so why is it always happening the other way around. I am atheist and have my beliefs, not because I hate religion, but because I have researched many religions and felt that the teachings and histories don't quite have enough weight and reliability for me to blindly follow them. My belief is that if I am wrong and a god does exist, then he won't punish me for making a decision based on available knowledge and past record. I should not be expected to blindly have faith in and follow a belief structure that has been responsible for an estimated 809 million murders in human history. I don't force by beliefs on anyone, and wholeheartedly respect the rights of people to believe what they want. As a matter of fact when me and my wife have kids, we are going to expose them to many religions, giving them the option to be educated and choose for themselves. We are NOT stupid, we are making moral and educated decisions. Just not the same decisions you are.
I have thought quite extensively about this argument and have come to the conclusion that no, I don't believe they should be allowed to use this site. Children at that age are very impressionable. A site like this gives many adults the opportunity to voice their opinion on any subject in a very specific manner. Their is no real way for any information or facts to be proved as true or false. Many peoples opinions are formed after years of hardship or just plain prejudice. Children of that age should be taught the facts, and their opinions of many topics should be evolved naturally. They should develop them through experience and education, not from reading the opinions of people who have had the time to develop their own. This type of website could be a huge advantage to exposing them to new ideas, but it should be from people their own age, with their same social situations. A site similar to this for school age children with a moderator of some kind would be the best way to go about this. We need the youth of this world to see the effects of our decisions and opinions, and make their own decisions accordingly. Not to just keep repeating our actions.