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Tim Keller can actually speak to these points much better than I can. If you want, give him a listen--I'll add a link...
"The Reason for God"
Well I tried to add the link but with no success.
Just Google--tim keller the reason for god free sermons-- and you'll find some good arguments in his "The Reason for God" series.
Yes, I agree that no one can fulfill the demands that God puts on us. This is why we must depend on God's grace, (Titus 2:11-14) and be born again (John 3:3-8). Being a Christian is not about me trying to be a better person, but rather, depending on the work and person of Jesus Christ to transform me from being someone who was dead in sin to being someone alive in Him (Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 11:19-20).
Really the whole debate on abortion revolves around the debate of whether or not there is a God to whom we are all accountable to. If I didn't believe in God I probably wouldn't care too much about abortion.
There will always be an unending dispute between us because I believe in God, and I believe He is holy. You deny God, and when you talk about Him in the context that He does possibly exist, you don't refer to Him as holy, but rather you compare Him to yourself. (When God kills/punishes in the Bible, He is acting as God, not as a man like you. You need to understand His holiness in order to understand His actions. God does act in terrifying ways, and often severe ways, but that does not mean He is not good.~Romans 11:22) It's good to see that you are reading the Bible though. I hope you continue to read it.
I also suggest you download material from Dr RC Sproul, John Piper, and Paul Washer. Listening carefully to these teachers may lead you to the truth.
So there is a rift between you and me that can never be crossed, and that's okay.
I won't resort to petty insults.
God bless you.
The original Hebrew in the Exodus verses simply refers to a child "coming forth" from the woman prematurely. As to the Numbers verses you seem to be assuming that there is a child being killed in the womb of the woman--I disagree with your assumption as there is no mention of an unborn human being being killed. So I stand by what I've already said.
Take care...
If God wants you to know Him, He will then reveal Himself to you. You won't have to compare God to anything, indeed you could not compare God to anything, of this world. You would just look to His revelation. Once He has given His revelation you would have to submit to it completely. You are very correct in saying that a belief in God and religion causes division. Remember this debate is asking if God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are real, not if an impersonal god of universal love is real.
"I (Jesus) have come to set the world on fire, and I wish it were already burning! I have a terrible baptism of suffering ahead of me, and I am under a heavy burden until it is accomplished. Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other! From now on families will be split apart, three in favor of me, and two against—or two in favor and three against.
'Father will be divided against son and son against father; mother against daughter and daughter against mother; and mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.'"~Luke 12:49-53 (NLT)
Exodus 21:22-25 states that if a woman is struck when two men are fighting, causing her to give birth prematurely, yet there is no injury (the child does not die), then a fine must be paid (vs22)--but if there is further injury then the punishment is life for life, eye for eye etc...(vs23-25)--so you've misread these verses entirely.
Numbers 5:11-31 talks about what will happen to a woman who is unfaithful to her husband--I don't see anything about abortion here at all. The woman loses her ability to conceive, and she herself suffers a physical punishment, but there is no reference here to terminating the life of an unborn child--so you've misread these verses entirely as well.
Since you've misread/misquoted these verses there's really no reason for me to take anything else you write seriously--you're probably just misquoting everything else as well. How a person does one thing is how they do most things.
Do you believe that, if there is a God, that He wants you to know Him? If your answer is: "No, I don't think God cares if I know Him or not."--then you will always be stuck in a place of never knowing anything about God. However, if you are reasonably certain that God is real, and that He also wants you to know Him, then you can begin to look at the religions of the world and study them carefully, because one of them will be the truth.
"The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God."~Psalm 14:2(NKJV)
The argument against God is more psychological than scientific. The reverse is true also. But, according to Romans there is no excuse for any one to deny God. For one to deny God is to deny something that one knows is true in the deepest fibers of one's being. Why? Because God Himself has revealed enough of Himself so that there is no excuse. Atheists know God well enough to hate God.
I guess, as a Christian, my anti-abortion stance rests solely on the fact that I believe I am accountable to God in the end. So, as abortion is clearly not something God would approve of, I also can not approve of it--not just because God disapproves, but also because in my heart (a heart after God) I am certain abortion is absolutely wrong, and I am disgusted by it. I am unwilling to change my stance even after hearing the best scientific arguments. I suppose that sounds closed minded, but are not those who "religiously" support abortion just as equally closed minded?
What do you think of the documentary "180"?
At what point does the "cluster of cells" become self-aware? 3 months? 6 months? Is a new born baby self aware? Any more than it was moments before birth while still in the womb? Where's the cut off line? Is not abortion still killing even if it's just an unaware cluster of cells? Because that unaware cluster of cells does in fact have life. Anytime you terminate life you kill. Is it morally okay to terminate human life at any stage in its development? Does it not make sense to look at a human life on the whole, from beginning to end/from end to beginning, and consider each stage of a person's life equally worthy? To not think deeply about these questions, and to not come up with some satisfactory answers, is being extremely reckless with human life.
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