Well, first off being a man I do not really think I should have much of a say in this matter. Maybe men should get a half vote?

The only legitimate point, in my opinion, against other than moral/theological points would be that it infringes on the rights of the child. The biggest argument being at one point does it become a child. If we say it is at conception then you could probably argue that male masturbation or safe sex should be outlawed because the seed is being destroyed and it holds potential life. This is where people differ.

I cannot imagine the pain a girl would have to go through to be forced to carry a child of a rapist.

But that being said I do know a rape baby. He is one of my fraternity brothers and I love him like a real brother. I was in his wedding, i was at his adoptive fathers funeral and I will always love him and be at his funeral if he dies before me. I am very grateful to his mom for not aborting him. He went on to college and is now a counselor to teens and his adoptive parents couldn't be more prouder.

I also know a "happy accident." she is my god daughter and I am very glad that those two stupid teens could not afford the abortion. I will be at all her birthday parties, her graduation (high school and college) and her wedding, that is if me and her dad let another guy take her.

I can understand the point of both sides.

But maybe we should stop pouring money into abortions and research and start funding ways to help young mothers, find adoptive homes, help families afford adoption and fund better foster care. Fund law enforcement to try and prevent more rape and find a way that helps prevent or eliminate the need for abortions.

Lets do it. Sounds like a win-win. All the Christians can be resurrected in heaven, and all the non will have some very pretty cathedrals to use! =)

There are times where the truth could destroy someones life, and I think making an immoral decision on my part would be better than bringing harm onto someone because it was the truth. I was in a fraternity and any of us would lie for a brother. I agree with a lot of the other side that there are times when maybe a friend really needs to hear the truth, but I do know that the answer is not so black and white. It is a very blurry line.

i completely agree. Like I said, I got pissed about my sisters miscarriage. But my question isn't how could a loving god do such a horrible act, it is why did my loving god do such an act? I am just offering up to the conversation that maybe we are not asking the right questions.

haha i figured that was the case! =D thank you for clarifying!!!

I knew you were a democrat... because you are being a little bitch.

Why would you post that on this debate? The 2 sentences you posted on here are a waste of space for all parties involved. Are you disputing this argument I posted on here about contradictions in the bible? What is your contribution to this debate? Are you saying these two verses do contradict one another? Oh you have nothing to say? then thank you.

what logical fallacies? what cluelessness?

I agree the story is unsatisfactory. Hence why i said that! Stop getting pissed off about an internet site.

But the relation is true, not "bullshit conjecture." You cannot measure the amount of cold in a room, only the amount of heat. you cannot measure the amount of darkness only light.

So if we are talking about good and evil then you cannot measure how evil a person is, only how good they are. That is the point of that story. it argues there is no such thing as evil.

How is that a logical fallacy or a "bullshit conjecture?" The only place I can see it being flawed is if you do not see the relationship between heat/cold and the relationship between good/evil as a reasonable comparison.

It is more of a cute story that middle/high school students get shown to give them an answer so i agree with you it is unsatisfactory.

You are under the impression that there is evil. Assuming you are right and evil does exist then I would agree with the logic. If He created everything and there is evil then he must have created it. But that is assuming that you are right about there being evil in the world. I am not so sure there is a thing as "evil." It is relative, or "bullshit conjecture" I know you love bullshit conjecture. But how do you know what is evil? And why should I give a shit what you THINK is evil?

The point I am trying to contribute is that:

Yahweh is just.

Therefore He knows what is truly good and truly evil.

I am not just.

Therefore I have a flawed perception, a bullshit conjecture, of what is truly good and truly evil.

I thank God for everything I have! Even the suffering I have gone through. Even the "evil" that has taken place in my life. You refuse to be thankful for that which you do not understand and you say it is illogical for me to do so. But Look at God's first speech to Job! If God can control the chaotic waters in creation do you not trust that he can handle the chaos in your life? This is blind thankfulness yes, but how is this illogical thankfulness?

God tells His children He will not forsake them if they put their faith in Him, that he has the best intentions for them.

I put my faith in God

therefore God will not forsake me and I should be thankful for every situation I am in, trusting it is for my best intentions

you "MUST" have been one of those kids that had to touch the hot stove to understand why momma said not to touch it without over mitts. Instead of being thankful for oven mitts and knowing that momma had the best intentions for you, you burned yourself and now you I guess you can be truly and logically thankful for oven mitts.

All in all I think the main question is dumb and a moot point. Why does it matter if He created evil? It changes nothing about my faith or how I am called to live out my life. I think the better question to ask is, "How can we be the presence of God in the surrounding evil?"

I am confused. i am agreeing that these verse do not contradict each other. Even taken out of context of the surrounding verses or book as a whole... these two sentences are saying the same thing.

I am sure you all have heard the Einstein story... whether it is true or not. It makes a decent point in all of this.

If you haven't here is a paraphrase: a professor asks the same question and comes to the conclusion that because God created everything and there is evil in the world then God created evil and thus is not good and thus does not exist. Apparently Einstein in this class spoke up and argued that there is no darkness but rather darkness is the absence of light and that there is no such thing as cold but rather cold is the absence of heat. He argued that you can only measure how hot something is or how much light there is. He then concluded that there is no such thing as evil; that evil is only the absence of God.

That is one argument against it, though I find it slightly unsatisfying.

So lets assume God did create evil... what is evil? Where is the line? And who are you to be a judge of what is good and what is evil?

It says in Scripture that God is just. I am not a just being. I do not know perfect justice. But Yahweh is a just being. He knows what is right, what is truly good for His children. Like how a parent may hold back ice cream from their young child... to the child this is unjust. The parent gets to eat ice cream, older brother got ice cream, the dog got a treat... why can't the younger child have ice cream? But the parent knows that by giving the child ice cream it will be too much sugar and the child wont sleep and then wont be productive in school the next day. Just because the child fails to see the purpose does not make it evil and discredit the goodness of the parent. Just because we fail to see the good in this world that comes out of what we think is evil does not discredit God's goodness. All things work to His glory.

My sister has had 2 miscarriages, and is pregnant again. There is nothing "just" about it and it pisses me off that they are having such a hard time. But she is at peace. She knows that for whatever reason she can trust God and know that His purpose for taking the child was greater than letting it live. Already she has been researching people that go through this, seeking them out and finding community within people who have shared the same struggle. She has been looking into starting a charity for mothers who are infertile and cannot afford adoption. And when my other sister went through a miscarriage they were able to help each other. Instead of agonizing in her pain, she overcame it and uses it to help others... this is the call to community that God gives us.

John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful."

He will prune us and it will be painful and we will overcome it and we will help others overcome it and we will be better for it.

Your question is leading and biased/opinion based. If you give specific examples, such as the one in the provided picture, I imagine those can be more closely discussed and either shown to be contradictory or not. and I am sure you can go through countless commentaries of people smarter than me that will have better answers.

Let's assume you are right though and that the bible is full of contradictions... who cares?

It does not change the meta-narrative that is taking place within the whole book. You are missing the Authors intent.

I will agree that the good book has points of contradiction and each one should be handled differently and within context. But I do not find any contradiction that discredits the entire book.

But according to others since I am a Christian, that means I am a fool... And I probably am. So there's a fool's opinion on the Bible's many contradictions.