ok so lots of your evidence and counter arguments are just plainly dumb. i was reading plenty of these posts and i could comment on all of them and i could tear apart everything youve said but, i dont feel like it. however, you did say one thing that i havent heared in a religious debate before and i had to point out why it is wrong. "You seem to think that we can only know things that we can detect empirically. This is far from the truth. There are many things that we know that are impossible to detect empirically, things like the laws of logic ('A' cannot be 'Not A')." to be empirical is to be derived from experience and experiment, or observing and testing. so everything we know is empirical because it had to be brought about by observations. you know what a tree is because sombody showed you a tree and said thats a tree. the laws of logic are empirical. i can test them and observe them in action. the laws of logic are like the law of gravity. you may not see a giant string saying gravity on it holding the planets around the sun but you do see the effect. laws of logic dont come in bottles saying logic either. and your specific example of the laws of logic is totally observable. think of any one object. your cellphone, your couch, your dog, or even yourself. lets take the cellphone example to test and observe the law of logic that A cannot be Not A. is your cellphone a giraffe? is it the moon? a car? your mother? a doughnut? if you said yes to any of these you are right that the laws of logic arent empirical, in fact now they are false. im going to guess you said no to all of them and now ask you did we just test a law of logic, and observe how it works, to proove its truth value? if you said no you are being a child. but if you said yes then by definition that law of logic is empirical. it has evidence that we can observe and test to proove its true. god can we say he is empirical? if we can, give me some evidence of things you can observe and test to proove he is real. but right now i see it as, we do not have anything that is specifically tied to god, we cannot observe god, and there is no experiment to test gods truth value. let me know what you have to say about this send me an email because i most likely wont look at this site anymore. [email protected]