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Debate Info

14
17
YES NO
Debate Score:31
Arguments:25
Total Votes:37
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 YES (12)
 
 NO (13)

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Do environmentalists really care about the planet?

YES

Side Score: 14
VS.

NO

Side Score: 17

Of course. I'm curious as to why someone would think they don't. Perhaps there are individuals that might be supporting environmentalism for less than noble reason (although I cannot think of what these reasons might be) however, I would say that most environmentalists, by definition, care about the planet.

Side: yes
2 points

"I’m tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren’t enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don’t give a shit about the planet.You know what they’re interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They’re worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced." George Carlin

Side: No
1 point

I love George Carlin as a comedian. I think he is hilarious and often insightful about modern culture. If you begin taking comedians too seriously though, you're libel to get laughed at.

Carlin's "argument" is that the planet itself cannot be harmed by humans. I would agree if we are going with the literal definition of planet. The piece of rock orbiting around the sun will be just fine regardless of what we do. This is true. If this is what you meant when you said that they don't care primarily about the planet then I would have to agree.

My assumption though, was that you were talking not about the condition of the rock on which we reside, but the environment (in other words the living things on the earth). Now Carlin talked about how humans aren't really responsible for the extinctions of other species, and though the points he made were funny and entertaining, they were far from accurate. Surprisingly enough, comedians don't get peer reviewed...imagine that?

So yes, if we look at the cosmological picture, nothing really matters. Humans will eventually die out and the entire universe will eventually decay until there is nothing but darkness. But here on earth, we do care, even if in the grandest sense nothing matters.

As far as the selfish part, I'm surprised you would make this argument. The entire idea of capitalism, and why it works is because people are looking out for their self-interest. You and I both know that this actually is a very good thing, because it allows for effective and efficient use of resources. The reason people are proponents of capitalism isn't because they are greedy (like far left socialists would have you believe) but because everyone benefits from it. The added bonus is that personal liberty is also maximized under a capitalist system.

Environmentalism is similar in that it looks to maintain our own self interests: making sure we don't have a shitty dystopian future where we have to wear oxygen tanks to breathe (exaggeration of course), but it also involves the moral obligation that many environmentalists believe we have toward the other species on this earth (we dramatically changed their environments and many are now dying off). In other words, just like how capitalism has an objective function (it works) and a subjective function (freedom), so too does environmentalism have objective (protects our environment) and subjective (maintaining the biodiversity of our planet).

Now the main reason I disagree with your premise that most environmentalists are selfish is that it doesn't really make sense when you look at time scales. Let's say everyone decided to just say: "fuck it, who gives a shit. Let's just ignore the environment and live our lives without worrying about any damage we may do to the planet (euphemism for living organisms, not actual ball of rock)." While we may see some negative effects in our lifetime, the majority of these negative issues would be felt by future generations. I always kinda liked this quote:

"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children."

Now I understand that some people don't like being told what to do, so I try not to preach, but I do attempt to help the environment in my own actions and support politicians who try and enact "green" policies. But maybe that's just because I'm selfish ;)

Side: yes

They only care about living in their own little clean habitat where they don't want to be personally inconvenience by dirty polluters.

They just feel guilty about the perceived destruction of the Earth, so they have to pawn it off onto those who don't feel guilty.

Side: No
aveskde(1935) Disputed
0 points

They only care about living in their own little clean habitat where they don't want to be personally inconvenience by dirty polluters.

So you're arguing that living in pollution is a good thing.

They just feel guilty about the perceived destruction of the Earth, so they have to pawn it off onto those who don't feel guilty.

So you're arguing that we shouldn't feel bad about harming our environment.

I guess this is how libertarians deal with the failure of capitalism. The Earth is getting polluted rampantly and corporations actively campaigned against cleaner technologies, which flies in the face of the whole libertarian "let the market magically solve everything" idea. So rather than admit failure, it must be our fault for wanting a clean place to live.

Complaining about chemical byproducts in your blood? You pussies! Dirty air giving you asthma? Move away! Marine life dying from an oil spill every few years? Who cares? Buy more oil! The planet's fine! Burn toxic waste! Dump it in our rivers! Why should we be guilty for using our land that we own as we see fit??

-The libertarian capitalist mindset

Side: yes
1 point

So you're arguing that we shouldn't feel bad about harming our environment.

I certainty don't.

I guess this is how libertarians deal with the failure of capitalism.

Then, I am going to guess that since you have a computer, access to a interest, and use this site, you are doing pretty well. You have capitalism to thank for that.

The Earth is getting polluted rampantly and corporations actively campaigned against cleaner technologies, which flies in the face of the whole libertarian "let the market magically solve everything" idea. So rather than admit failure, it must be our fault for wanting a clean place to live.

Market did solve it. You are free to purchase sun panels or wind turbines and install them on your roof or in a field or conceive your apartment community to invest.

Side: No
1 point

Agreed. The idea that there are tariffs on how much pollution a company can produce before being fined a certain amount is ridiculous. What's worse, is that companies who are good at decreasing the amount of pollution their company emits can take their tradable permits and sell them to another company who isn't so good at decreasing the quantity of pollutants in both the air and the water.

honestly, we're not getting very far on the whole sustainability thing.

Side: YES

There are some who really do care, but there are others who are just trying to make a political statement, trying to shove the blame onto somebody else.

Side: No

TAKE Al Gore he lied about the facts in a movie to win a noble prize.

Side: No