There a link between biology and sexual orientation
Yes - orientation is biology
Side Score: 25
|
No - orientation is a choice
Side Score: 34
|
|
|
|
The functioning of the inner ear and the central auditory system in lesbians and bisexual women are more like the functional properties found in men than in non-gay women (the researchers argued this finding was consistent with the prenatal hormonal theory of sexual orientation).
Supporting Evidence:
McFadden D (2002). "Masculinization effects in the auditory system". Arch Sex Behav 31 (1): 99–111. doi:10.1023/A:1014087319682. PMID 11910797
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
The suprachiasmatic nucleus was found by Swaab and Hopffman to be larger in gay men than in non-gay men
Supporting Evidence:
Structural sex differences in the brain: Influence of gonadal steroids and behavioral correlate
(www.dafml.unito.it)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
Gay and non-gay people's brains respond differently to two putative sex pheromones (AND, found in male armpit secretions, and EST, found in female urine)
Supporting Evidence:
Savic I, Berglund H, Lindström P (May 2005). "Brain response to putative pheromones in homosexual men". Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. U.S.A. 102 (20): 7356–61
(www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
Gay men have increased ridge density in the fingerprints on their left thumbs and pinkies
Supporting Evidence:
The Science of Gaydar by David France. New York Magazine. 18 June 2007.
(nymag.com)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
1.) Newspapers do not constitute scientific evidence sources 2.) Kinsey is not a respected source of science and this evidence may already be disproved. Again, you assume that this has any baring on the biological matter. Even the article itself says its making assumptions about hair whorl and fingerprints. Its about as serious as the discredited science of physiognomy. As far as i can tell, these cover exactly the same subject areas. The real flaw in your reasoning seems to be that gays are more of everything if you tested the colour of the light reflecting off of them youd probably say you found they were more Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet, grey black ultraviolet, infrared and several radio stations. Side: No - orientation is a choice
Length of limbs and hands of gay white men is smaller compared to height than the general population.
Supporting Evidence:
The Science of Gaydar by David France. New York Magazine. 18 June 2007
(nymag.com)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
Gay men report, on an average, slightly longer and thicker penises than non-gay men. (Bogaert AF, Hershberger S (1999). "The relation between sexual orientation and penile size". Arch Sex Behav 28 (3): 213–21. doi:10.1023/A:1018780108597. PMID 10410197) Side: Yes - orientation is biology
A recent meta-study by Hershberger (2001) compares the results of eight different twin studies: among those, all but two showed MZ twins having much higher concordance of sexual orientation than DZ twins, suggesting a non-negligible genetic component. Hershberger, Scott L. 2001. Biological Factors in the Development of Sexual Orientation. Pp. 27–51 in Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Identities and Youth: Psychological Perspectives, edited by Anthony R. D’Augelli and Charlotte J. Patterson. Oxford, New York: Oxford University Press. Quoted in Bearman and Bruckner, 2002 Side: Yes - orientation is biology
Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheres. Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
1.) No journalistic article is evidence. Ok, now that we've got that out the way. I will use a source from the same bbc news. So our credibility will be equal. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/ However there is a clear hierarchy as to this information. "Brain Plasticity" is a well known concept which explains that when repeating and learing a task that part of the brain shows growth. This explains the reason for the brain differences in gays and proves its much more likely to be brain plasticity than an inherited change. In conclusion, this proves that it is conditioning which re-enforces gayness. This view is corroborated by 2 scientific papers i know of which prove that gays can convert back to normal sexuality. See; Spitzer, Robert L. (2003), “Can Some Gay Men and Lesbians Change Their Sexual Orientation?,” Archives of Sexual Behavior, 32[5]:403-417, October 5. It is well known that the terms homosexual and heterosexual are new labeling terms which were created even though the scientific evidence proving their existence is still being gathered and not concluded, even though it is still very much looking like gayness is a mental illness or some form of brain damage. Side: No - orientation is a choice
The average size of the INAH-3 in the brains of gay men is approximately the same size as INAH 3 in women, which is significantly smaller, and the cells more densely packed, than in heterosexual men's brains
Supporting Evidence:
LeVay S (August 1991). "A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men" (PDF). Science (journal) 253 (5023): 1034–7. doi:10.1126/science.1887219. PMID 1887219.
(members.aol.com)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
Levay has been discredited most completely for the following reasons. 1.) He set out to prove gayness was normal from the beginning which biased his scientific conclusion. 2.) He only tested 13 gay men 3.) He only tested men, not women 4.) He neglected to point out that all 13 of them died of AIDS which is known to cause changes in hormones and the brain. 5.) He had no control group, to wit, he did not test straight men. This is such a cardinal sin, that its almost impossible to contemplate this man thinks himself a scientist. 6.) The difference in brain size only appeared as a mean of the entire group. That is, if i took 13 people and 1 elephant and took a mean, i could say that everyone has a nose 8 inches long
You should take note, because the majority of every pro-gay scientific paper, has these same flaws. Worse still, and almost unforgivably, the meta studies on gays take into account ALL of these discredited sources. None of these where ever proper science, untill the media got ahold of them. Which is misinformation on a scale similar to psychological warfare. Especially given that my prior comment proved that gayness can be brought on with conditioning. Side: No - orientation is a choice
Gay men's brains respond differently to fluoxetine, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
Supporting Evidence:
Kinnunen LH, Moltz H, Metz J, Cooper M (2004). "Differential brain activation in exclusively homosexual and heterosexual men produced by the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, fluoxetine"
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
Hey, now your really reaching. Ive read your source and it says "The metabolic differences we observed might reflect underlying neurochemical differences between homosexual and heterosexual men." That doesn't mean its natural or biological to be gay. Indeed it lends more weight to the fact that the brain chemistry is the area which determines the difference. Side: No - orientation is a choice
The startle response (eyeblink following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women
Supporting Evidence:
Rahman Q, Kumari V, Wilson GD (2003). "Sexual orientation-related differences in prepulse inhibition of the human startle response". Behav. Neurosci. 117 (5): 1096–102.
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
Finger length ratios between the index and ring fingers are different between non-gay and lesbian women.
Supporting Evidence:
McFadden D (2002). "Masculinization effects in the auditory system". Arch Sex Behav 31 (1): 99–111
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
Finger length has nothing to do with anything. There is no known process whereby it would. Also, your source isnt about finger length. Its about auditory system. It specifically says: "assuming that these special populations received greater-than-normal exposures to androgens at some point(s) during development, possibly during prenatal development." It makes the assumption that this is due to prenatal development, but again it can easily be explained by 'neuro plasticity' as i said earlier. And that involves a process which we understand. No one knows a mechanism for the womb emasculating the wrong parts of the brain. Here the pro-gay lobby group, deliberately uses and assumption to lead to a less credible theory. The most credible theory being ignored because it is inconvenient. Assumptions have no place in scientific papers. Side: No - orientation is a choice
Gay men and lesbians are significantly more likely to be left-handed or ambidextrous than non-gay men and women
Supporting Evidence:
Lalumière ML, Blanchard R, Zucker KJ (2000). "Sexual orientation and handedness in men and women: a meta-analysis". Psychol Bull 126 (4): 575–92
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
Gay men may receive higher scores than non-gay men on tests of object location memory.
Supporting Evidence:
Rahman Q, Wilson GD, Abrahams S (2003). "Sexual orientation related differences in spatial memory". J Int Neuropsychol Soc 9 (3): 376–83
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
Side: Yes - orientation is biology
1
point
Once again, your evidence is unbelievable. 1.) First of all, spatial memory was found to be the same for lesbians and normal women. The only group which was different was gay and straight men, and unsurprisingly the women were forgotten about pretty quickly in the conclusion. 2.) Spatial memory can STILL be explained by neuro plasticity, just like just about every other claim youve found. It seems people want to assume these means a gay gene, or biological difference. 3.) There is absolutely no reason to believe that spatial memory can effect and change someones sexuality. Indeed this is a medical paper called "sexual orientation related differences" Once again this science has proved nothing more than people are able to change and condition themselves through repetition. Side: No - orientation is a choice
|
I'm just posting on this side because the other side is flooded (try to organize your thoughts). I do believe, however, that there is a biological component when it comes to sexual orientation. As well, I do NOT believe that sexual orientation is a choice. However, I also don't believe that sexual orientation is purely biological. I do believe that the whole nature vs. nurture debate in this case has a lot to do with, of course, both nature and nurture. I, myself have considered the possibility of being able to have gay sex. I don't actually crave sex with a man, and it's very rare for me to even meet a guy who I could possibly have sex with, but (and this is thanks to the drug use, I think) I am sure that there are some men (in this world) who I would be able to have sex with. I would be the pitcher. Now, if my interest in eventually having sex with a man (I'm still not sure if I would ever do it, but if the time ever comes where it's a man of my type, usually very feminine and sort of scene looking, he'd also have to be gay, and the environment and mood is right, i would do it, i think) is because of my experimentation with psychedelic drugs (including marijuana and mdma, which are mild psychedelics), than it is fair to say that neurobiology is highly attributed to this. But as well, it also comes from me being very objectivist (yet not Nihilist) and relativistic so that I can accept that it doesn't threaten me in any way to have these interests in experimentation in sex. I am quite experimental when it comes to my mind and body, and while I am not gay, I will say that I wasn't, exactly, born this way. I was born a baby with a biological lean towards skepticism and open mindedness. But depending on the course of events in my life, I can see on how I could have ended up differently. And if I ended up differently, I probably would never consider having sex with a man, eventually. So no, orientation is not a choice, but it is also not purely biological. It has to do both with biology AND the environment. The human mind is a fascinating, complicated organism. So much can happen to it over little time. Side: No - orientation is a choice
Your posting on a side, just because their were too many post on the other side? You just love to be different don't you swastika? You tell me to "organize your thoughts". How? What is wrong? re: "However, I also don't believe that sexual orientation is purely biological". You are such a freaking idiot. Stop posting on my ideas. I never said that is was "purely biological". No one ever said it was purely biological. Stop using staw man arguments. Get the freak off my ideas. I don't want to talk to you swastika. re: "I do believe that the whole nature vs. nurture debate in this case has a lot to do with, of course, both nature and nurture". No freakin kidding? Everyone on the freakin planet knows it is a combination of both. Do you think you saying the obvious is necessarily? Side: Yes - orientation is biology
You finally decide to read my debate, and instead of responding in a classy way, you smother me with insults. You clearly do not wish to hide your bias for me. As well, this is how you organize thoughts: 1. I never made the claim that YOU were saying that sexual orientation was purely biological. The debate choices, however, said that "Sexual orientation is biological" or "sexual orientation is a choice". I wanted to make it clear that I believed in neither. I believe that there is a biological component to sexual orientation. And no, not everyone BELIEVES in both nature and nurture, especially when it comes to sexual orientation. 2. I posted on this side because my argument would not be read if it were posted on the other side. Because of your inability to organize your thoughts, the other side is filled with an endless ladder of clutter. If I were to post on the other side, I may, as well, have not posted an opinion at all. 3. If everyone on the planet knew that it was a combination of the both, why create a debate? Side: No - orientation is a choice
1
point
All of your studies on the brain, which somehow prove that a person is gay, could just as easily be caused by the fact that they choose to be gay. Maybe often a traumatic event that causes them to "become" gay can also change the brain. Until you provide evidence that a child was somehow different from birth and that caused him/her to be gay, you can't for certain understand the causal relationships in these brain studies, as in all science. Side: No - orientation is a choice
The startle response (eyeblink following a loud sound) is similarly masculinized in lesbians and bisexual women. This is observed in the womb. So guys in the womb who have feminine type startle responses, turn out to be gay later more than babies who have a masculine type startle response. Babies, in the womb, did not, choose to be gay, inside the womb! Side: Yes - orientation is biology
Who says you can switch? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Side: Yes - orientation is biology
Although Wikipedia can be a valid source, the page you provided has multiple problems that Wikipedia pointed out, such as the fact that some of the sources provided to do not support their data/ideas. Whereas my research was a paper by a reputable scientist on his attempts (and successes) to "turn" homosexual men and women back to heterosexual. (Sorry for the crude terming "turn" I am running late and its all I could think of) Side: No - orientation is a choice
0
points
This is the only peice of pertinent evidence. And furthermore it disproves all prior contrary or theoretical evidence as to a biological cause of gayness. A 2010 study of all adult twins in Sweden, more than 7,600 twins. Found 66% concordance with; birth defects, mental illness, physical and mental trauma. They found that the next most significant concordant was genes at 41%. Which means that out of all the twins in the test, they shared genes only 41% of the time. Which excludes the idea of a gay gene completely. That, and the fact that its logical because gays are in nearly every race in the world and sometimes identical twins have 1 gay and 1 straight. Also because gay people can turn straight again later. This is but 1 piece of evidence that proves its neither a choice nore biological, that it is a disease. And it is the most credible source in science, because no group will ever have as accurate records of twins as Sweden nore will they have more twins. "Långström N, Rahman Q, Carlström E, Lichtenstein P (February 2010). "Genetic and environmental effects on same-sex sexual behavior: a population study of twins in Sweden". Arch Sex Behav 39 (1): 75–80. .doi:10.1007/s10508-008-9386-1. PMID 18536986." Side: No - orientation is a choice
|