I'm not trying to vote yes or no but I could not find the original sources for these headlines except from conservative blogs from which you got this argument. So I'm wondering where the original ones came from, was it mainstream media like CNN?
can you elaborate on that "they still aren't fit" part? (especially when you say it can be proven. scientifically?)
I think you mean that people who don't have the resources shouldn't be able to raise children simply because they will be using other peoples' resources. This assumes that people knew they couldn't afford to have children before they actually did. There are lots of people who went from being prosperous to being poor.
But if you did those two things that you listed, wouldn't that be the same thing as you said earlier, about letting the "elite" choose who gets what? How do you distinguish between people who have kids for the sole reason of getting benefits (most likely to pay for drugs, god damn people should be executed) from honest people who happen to be down on their luck?
I've known both types. I know people who work as hard as they can but they still need assistance because of the skyrocketing price of health care and rent. As for the other type, every time I hear arguments like yours I am reminded of this disgusting girl I used to work with (in Burger King!) who was as slow as she was fat (I can't help but use such descriptors) and had 3 kids when I first met her (all different daddies of course) and 9 months pregnant the last time I saw her (different daddy again). All I could think when I would run into her and her children was "damn, that poor little boy is gonna be a serial killer one day." No surprise here when the bitch called me up one day (got my number from the BK contact info), asked me if I had seen this one guy we both worked with, and informed me she had caught him sexually assaulting her 5-year old daughter.
Number one, I've already watched this video.
Number two, I already know all this by virtue of my cultural background.
Number three, the "we are going to kill Palestinians because WE have historically been victims" attitude doesn't really further your argument.
We do have individual rights. Babies and children, the most vulnerable of all, should be the ones on whom the concept of individual right is placed with most emphasis.
I didn't say we are China, I didn't say we should enforce population control.
And you say 'just cause,' but when it comes to babies and children, it is not enough just to prosecute those abusers who happen to be caught (a small percentage, by the way). Abuse and neglect needs to be prevented.
Did I mention some people like to torture babies?
I think I said that in a previous debate. It's true.
And happens more often than one might think.
I'm not really talking about how to raise your child to be a certain way or to be successful or whatever. I'm talking more along the lines of preventing child abuse and neglect, like that woman who microwaved her 4-month old daughter, or those people in Texas who abused their 6-month old son so badly you can categorize it as torture. These are not isolated cases. Sometimes we hear about them in the news if the case is particularly egregious, but in general children and babies all over the country have miserable lives.
Here's another dissenting Israeli.
http://www.guardian.co.
How old are you? 15? I've got ten years on you, AND a college education. Someday you will learn that society is not as simple as you think it is. Just because the UN gives someone land doesn't mean it belongs to them.
I know what the Palestinians do/did. But I am not blind to what Israel does. Just because I am from there, and I am jewish, doesn't mean I harbor such blind nationalistic tendencies which prevent me from seeing the truth. There is an objective reality out there, and i hope someday you will find it.
I don't blame you for believing what you do. You are only one of millions. It would serve you well to read some books, studies, analyses, and other such academic publications that have assessed the historical and political situation regarding Israel. There is an objective reality out there, and someday you will find it.
YOU should be ashamed of yourself.
It is not OUR home land (yes, if you didn't read my other post, I am Israeli). The land belongs to the Palestinians and you know it.
You know as well as I do that Israel violated the ceasefire as well. Stop lying. What about the 4 Hamas members that were killed on Nov. 4th without provocation? Some cease-fire, huh?
"According to a joint Tel Aviv University-European University study, this fits a larger pattern in which Israeli violence has been responsible for ending 79 per cent of all lulls in violence since the outbreak of the second intifada, compared with only 8 per cent for Hamas and other Palestinian factions."
Oh. What's that in your face? Egg.
Since I have to spell it out for you,
The Palestinians had extremely difficult lives BEFORE Hamas.
Why can't you acknowledge the facts?
How is it that Ben-Gurion's simple quote cannot get through your head? When the ultimate Zionist ADMITS to everything I have been trying to tell you, therefore affirming my points through his own mouth, and you STILL don't get it, there is obviously no hope for you.
Are you Jewish? Are you Israeli?
Because I AM. I was born in Tel Aviv. My family is Jewish. We came to the United States when I was 9.
So,
I KNOW the mindset of the Jews.
I KNOW the Zionist fanaticism.
I KNOW that the Jews paid the British tons of money to establish the Jewish state.
I KNOW that the 1967 war was instigated by the Jews beginning in 1965 when we figured out that our water supply would be diminished through the Headwater Diversion Plan.
I KNOW that the Zionist quest involves the continuation of settlements into Palestinian territory, and will not stop until the Jews believe they have the entire Holy Land to themselves.
I KNOW that the Jews and the Zionists have always planned to slowly push out the rightful inhabitants of this land.
What kind of authority do YOU have to talk about this, which you obviously know nothing about?
I am utterly ashamed to be Israeli. My parents came here when I was 9 because they could not stomach the hypocrisy and horror of Zionism. They did not want me, or my brothers, to grow up into fanatic Israeli settler youth.
So if you are not Jewish, and you are not Israeli,
JUST SHUT UP.
I am absolutely baffled. What part of "Palestinians have been victims of Israel for decades, have been living under sanctions, etcetera, etcetera, and are fighting for their own rights" don't you understand?
Even when faced with actual evidence, you continue to try to prove your point. Why? I am truly flabbergasted.
So, the loss of Palestinian children is an acceptable outcome in the fight against Israel
Well, when you are going to lose your children anyway because Israel won't allow food and medicine into Gaza even in times of "peace" then why not fight the problem?
The ends (the full destruction of Israel) justifies the means (committing terrorist acts against Israel even though Palestinian children will also die in the process)
The ends is not the full destruction of Israel (even Ahmadinejad is only spouting propaganda with the intention of drawing attention to himself and riling people up). If the ends were that, it would have happened a long time ago. Can you imagine what would happen if the whole M.E. stood up against Israel? The ends are to get the land back that Israel took in 1967 (which, by the way, was a preemptive war against Egypt, but Israel instigated that war plan).
Hamas uses Palestinian children as collateral damage in their war against Israel. Hamas treats Palestinian children as pawns.
Actually, Israel uses Palestinian children as a deterrent (which obviously hasn't been working) against the possibility of Arab revolt.
Tell me Zofia, if a man took up residence in one of your bedrooms in your home, would you let your husband sacrifice your children in his fight to get that man out of your home?
If a man took up residence in one of my bedrooms and proceeded to control the flow of food and supplies into the home, and proceeded to try to take over all of the other rooms with the aim of gaining the entire house, and some of my children died as a result, and the rest of my children would continue to die as a result, and my neighbors and their neighbors were facing the same problem, and the only way to stop it is to fight, OF COURSE I would sacrifice my children. They're going to die anyway.
The reason is because Palestinian Arabs, having been continually harassed by Israelis and forced into refugee camps since about 1922 (with the help of the British, I might add), were trying in vain to recover their lost homes and lost land.
So, Israel placed sanctions on them to prevent them from trying to use violence (or any other means for that matter, peaceful or not) to get back what was rightfully theirs.
"If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country.....We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?"
~~David Ben-Gurion~~
I am sick and tired of people who say things like this without knowing the full story.
For the 10th time, Hamas was firing rockets at Israel because Israel was placing sanctions on Palestinians. Children were starving, sick people could not get medicine, and the unemployed could not get jobs. After knowing this, is it any surprise that desperate men joined Hamas and ordinary Palestinians supported Hamas?
So... you're saying that the history of anti-Semitism gives Israel the right to oppress and murder others?
Wow.
(I am assuming you are posting this debate in reaction to my last debate. I don't think people who are anti-Israel are really anti-Semitic. I'm not, anyway.)
Seriously?? But.. how old is this law and when was the last time it was carried out? That should be universal. I don't know how stupid you have to be to not support a zero tolerance federal law like this
(of course, there is always the 'gray area' where people like to make arguments.. like, how old is a child? Certainly not 17)
