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Debate Info

11
16
TRUE FALSE
Debate Score:27
Arguments:20
Total Votes:27
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Argument Ratio

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 TRUE (9)
 
 FALSE (11)

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PrayerFails(11165) pic



Are some government jobs unproductive?

gov

TRUE

Side Score: 11
VS.

FALSE

Side Score: 16

It is critically important to note that unproductive doesn't mean low productivity output per hour nor does it mean that government employees are lazy.

Government jobs are unproductive because some don't provide society with a consumer good or service.

An ambassador is the single most unproductive government employee.

WHY?

An ambassador is simply unable to provide the market with function. Therefore, if the ambassabor position is not demanded by the market, it should not exist.

"In essence, the government creates a demand for these services out of thin air: the existence of ambassadors is what leads to the work done by ambassadors. They do not take their services to market to sell them to anyone who happens to be a willing buyer. Governments appoint ambassadors to perform services that no consumer wishes to buy."

When government forcefully transfers economic resources from the production of economic goods and services to pseudo services with no real market demand, capital and resources are wasted either through labor or land.

Supporting Evidence: Mises (mises.org)
Side: True
casper3912(1581) Disputed
2 points

Ambassadors performs a function for society, namely being a mediator between two governments(which is clearly a service) the government is an employer or buyer in the labor market. Just because I nor you wouldn't hire a customer service representative, because I don't own a pizza place; doesn't mean that the employer that does is hiring someone that doesn't conduct a service or make a product. The only difference between the government and its ambassadors and the pizza place and its CSRs is the voluntary aspect of payment for a service. Coerced payment for goods or services does not mean that no goods or services were made or done.

Side: False
1 point

Ambassadors performs a function for society, namely being a mediator between two governments(which is clearly a service)

Again, creating a demand out of thin air doesn't constitute an service.

In order for a job to be productive, it must be demand by the consumer. What consumer is there? Government is not a consumer because it has no assets. Even all of its enterprises or land were at some point transferred wealth.

the government is an employer or buyer in the labor market.

Government is not a buyer in the labor market because it doesn't support itself through it own means, so it is simply transferring jobs from private to public through coercion.

Coerced payment for goods or services does not mean that no goods or services were made or done.

Actually, it does because typically it results in the misallocation of resources due to the lack of price mechanism in government services.

Side: True
Axmeister(4322) Disputed
1 point

Ambassoders are a form of communication between countries, if they weren't there they'ld be a lot more wars. And peace is good for many industries (aside from the military related ones). Therefore an Ambassador produces peace.

Side: False
1 point

Good point.

Many government institutions and jobs are only needed because the government says they're needed.

As well, government will often set up the circumstances for a need. We saw that with the Federal Reserve, the Depression, and then the New Deal.

Side: True

Just some? For the government to be productive, it would have to cease to exist. Talk about an oxymoron.

Side: True

Well noted, government would be productive if only it would cease to exist.

Side: True

There is not one government job that can be productive because government is counterproductive. It doesn't produce anything on its own means.

Side: True
1 point

FIRST: Government doesn't make money, they TAKE money AND they can print money. They have control over the money supply and therefore your money so they don't worry about that much.

SECOND: Since no money is their money, ALL the money they spend are third party purchases. Think buying something not for yourself and not with your money. You don't care much about the price nor quality. Do you think you know what you want to spend your money on more than the government knows what you want to spend your money on? Nah, what they do is TAKE your money and spend it on your behalf. Not productive.

Side: True
casper3912(1581) Disputed
2 points

Money is a commodity, just like anything else that fluctuates with supply and demand. Printing it, is making it.

If I'm buying something, with or without my money; I do indeed consider who's money it is and take that into consideration when I make purchases. Just because you are inconsiderate, does not mean that all entities are. Further more, you are failing to consider economies of scale. The government can put to work your money aggregated together with others in a better fashion then you individually can, the same with banks( or else they wouldn't be profitable).

Side: False
1 point

It's a fake commodity. Printing money is making money in terms of there's more of it after you print it, sure. But if the value of it goes down you're actually destroying money. If something is a real commodity it has to hold value. Something we can print indefinitely doesn't retain value. Most people don't get as least 5% raises every single year. Most people trade their time for money and so they level off at some point because you can't possible work more than 24/hrs in a day. the average American makes an average of 1.5million dollars in their lifetime. However the cost of living which has a big part to due with the printing of money steals the value of the hard working American's money. They make 100k/year but milk costs $2/gallon and next year they still make around 100k/year but now milk costs $4/gallon. That's not making money. That's taking away/stealing money. It's easy to see the up front results of things but we have to consider the long term results. When all is said and done what we have been doing all along has produced horrible results, we can argue how great it is all we want but fact proves it doesn't work.

But that's great that you would consider that for other people maybe you should run for office because certainly they aren't. But if you say that government can aggregate with others in better fashion than individuals can then shouldn't we at least give people the choice to do so? They take almost half your money whether you like it or not! And OUR money that they spend they don't even explain or have anything to show for it. They mess with it and toss it around like it's nothing. If this helps you, picture working from January to June without pay. Then you get paid for the rest of the year. The money they take from you goes to unqualified people who don't study or work as hard as you do.

Side: False
2 points

>< Some corporate jobs are unproductive.

Government jobs pay better, have better benefits, and don't ship to India at least.

And there are all kinds of jobs essential for any society that only government can do with any productivity or fairness at all.

Side: False

I'll rather have police than mercenaries, Military instead of gangs, and at least a minimal voice in the coercive systems I have to deal with.

Still though, one could consider welfare an unproductive government job; but for a job to be unproductive it isn't really a job eh? An even those can provide benefits to society.

Side: False
1 point

Government is merely a management system for a country, management departments aren't supposed to produce anything in the first place.

Side: False
1 point

Yes they are supposed to 'manage' but also run by the people. Actually the PURPOSE of why it was created in the first place to protect America from a big central government. Now we have a government running and controlling everything.

Side: False
1 point

All positions in government are necessary, people who are on those places, should be responsible for their actions and should fulfill their duties. But some of officials think that if they have power they can do everything they want, and those actions lead to unproductive work in several cases. Despite this fact every post involves certain duties it means that all government jobs are productive.

Side: False