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Christianity destroyed... by memes.
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"Makes a man before even thinking about making a woman. Gives man nipples." (Nipples were originally meant for women, and the fact men have them is a biological mistake as they have no use. Some men can even lactate (produce milk) from their nipples even though they were not meant to be motherly. It is an evolutionary-biological mistake.) Any adaption would be dishonest to the Christian religion. It would just be last ditch attempts to patch up a messed up man-made religion, beyond logical repair. People who continue to follow this religion will be dishonest of themselves or generally unintelligent /ignorant. Just because Christianity seems to be doing 'fine', doesn't mean it is. Ignorance can make it seem that way. So you think if improvements are made to a meme complex it must be renamed in the interest of honesty? It's called a meme compilation. And... since when did I say anything about improving a meme complex? I'm all for honesty, but calling it 'in the interest of honesty' sounds odd. What makes you think the application of rigorous logic can't repair the "christian" meme complex? Uh? What are you talking about? I'm talking about this compilation of memes that hold good points to destroying Christianity. And adding on crap to a religion is just shameless. It is supposed to be based on God, not the opinions of humans. Humans should stay the hell away from altering what their 'God' says in the bible. Changing Christianity just makes it more of a man-made religion that it really is. It's called a meme compilation. Oh really....are you meaning to imply that I would be somehow more correct to refer to it that way? since when did I say anything about improving a meme complex? I introduced the idea that it could improve as opposed to being destroyed. You said "Any adaption would be dishonest to the Christian religion." in response to me pointing out that the Christian meme complex would simply adapt rather than be destroyed. I disagree that improving the Christian meme complex could only be done through dishonesty. I believe the opposite. Uh? What are you talking about? You referred to Christianity as being "beyond logical repair" and I'd like to know why. I'm talking about this compilation of memes that hold good points to destroying Christianity. You don't seem to realize how adaptive memes are. And adding on crap to a religion is just shameless. Why? It is supposed to be based on God, not the opinions of humans. Don't pretend like you don't know better. Humans should stay the hell away from altering what their 'God' says in the bible. Why? Changing Christianity just makes it more of a man-made religion that it really is. As if you believed Christianity could be "more man made" than it is. Oh really....are you meaning to imply that I would be somehow more correct to refer to it that way? Well, a meme complex just sounds weird. Like a kind of group of corresponding memes that connect with each other. That's just not what memes are. They aren't a complex. And this is called a compilation. I introduced the idea that it could improve as opposed to being destroyed. You said "Any adaption would be dishonest to the Christian religion." in response to me pointing out that the Christian meme complex would simply adapt rather than be destroyed. I disagree that improving the Christian meme complex could only be done through dishonesty. I believe the opposite. But I am not talking about 'The Meme Complex' I'm talking about Christianity- the religion- as a whole. You referred to Christianity as being "beyond logical repair" and I'd like to know why. Because Christianity adapting would mean discarding, rewritting scriptures or ignoring/replacing parts of the bible. Such a thing would not work, and would be illogical to alter 'the word of God' to please humans. You don't seem to realize how adaptive memes are. Memes are... whatever. But I am intending to talk about Christianity as a whole. Don't pretend like you don't know better. I can pretend to if I want to. I used to be Christian, and from what I know, playing the opposite side can help to explain things. Why? Because it would make it no different to a man-made religion. And it would eliminate the word of God that people want to preserve. And those who believe in the superficial stuff would have nothing to go for, since their 'word of God' has now changed into 'word of humans' for the other Christians to feel comfortable in their religion. As if you believed Christianity could be "more man made" than it is. For the Christians that believe the bible is the word of God (which is most of them) how would adding the word of man help anything? Well, a meme complex just sounds weird. Like a kind of group of corresponding memes that connect with each other. That's just not what memes are. They aren't a complex. And this is called a compilation. That at least one of us doesn't understand memetics, is something I think we agree on :) But I am not talking about 'The Meme Complex' I'm talking about Christianity- the religion- as a whole. If you don't think of Christianity as a meme complex (or as you say "compilation") I wish you would have made that clear when I typed "you do recognize Christianity as meme complex don't you?" When you talk about "Christianity- the religion- as a whole" aren't you thinking of a group of people who identify as Christian, and a type of ideology that they share? Because Christianity adapting would mean discarding, rewritting scriptures or ignoring/replacing parts of the bible. So you think "Christianity" hasn't discarded and rewritten scriptures? Do you think "Christians" don't pick and choose what scriptures to include in their canon? If not who BUT Christians are responsible for Christianity's canonization process? Don't you realize that many Christians almost completely disregard large portions of whatever particular canon you are referring to as "the bible"? Such a thing would not work, To the contrary, were Christians to seriously recognize that it is their role to prayerfully determine what scriptures are included in their canons, and through rigorous apologetic dialog, continually exercised that role, it would seem to me that this auditing process could very well serve to subject the contents of these collections to deeper and deeper logical scrutiny and thereby improve (not destroy) Christianity. and would be illogical to alter 'the word of God' to please humans. Not every sect of Christianity accepts the doctrine of biblical infallibility. Plenty of Christians understand the bible as man's imperfect attempt at describing god. There are sects such as Mormons that view scriptural revelation as an ongoing process as opposed to a completed work. There is no reason that these sects couldn't end up as the majority, if they aren't already. I am intending to talk about Christianity as a whole. Then you must admit that there are serious differences of belief within Christianity as a whole. I can pretend to if I want to. You sure can, but I'd like to hear your objections to my arguments, not what you suppose the christian objection (as you understand it) would be. I used to be Christian Really what sect? and from what I know, playing the opposite side can help to explain things. I agree that sometimes it can. Perhaps I shouldn't have taken a demanding tone, but I don't think it's helping to do that here in this conversation. I already understand the stubborn position that "closed canon" and "sola scriptura" christians who worship "the god of the bible" have, but I don't regard them as impossibly stubborn. Plus, even if they are they do not necessarily represent "Christianity- the religion- as a whole" Because it would make it no different to a man-made religion. There is no bibliocentric religion (regardless of whether it is supposed as man made or divinely inspired) that didn't at one point make use of fallible human decision making to determine what scriptures to include in or exclude from their canon. It could be argued that the believer should -pray directly to god- about what scriptures are the word of god or not, as opposed to trusting the judgment of some other person or group. And it would eliminate the word of God that people want to preserve. How would recognizing that church decision making (particularly in regards to what scriptures are canonized) is fallible, since all those involved in the process of canonization are human and fallible, eliminate the word of god? And those who believe in the superficial stuff would have nothing to go for, since their 'word of God' has now changed into 'word of humans' for the other Christians to feel comfortable in their religion. I don't really understand what you are getting at here but....As it stands there is already disagreement within Christianity about what books are legitimately part of "the bible". If you pay attention, you will notice that it is common practice for Christians to heavily favor certain sections of their collection and almost totally disregard other sections. For the Christians that believe the bible is the word of God (which is most of them) how would adding the word of man help anything? Most Christians do not believe that god speaks only through the bible. Most Christians believe in continued revelation. If you don't think of Christianity as a meme complex (or as you say "compilation") I wish you would have made that clear when I typed "you do recognize Christianity as meme complex don't you?" When you talk about "Christianity- the religion- as a whole" aren't you thinking of a group of people who identify as Christian, and a type of ideology that they share? The picture I placed on was a meme compilation. To see the image, click on the link I provided in an argument below. That's the meme compilation I'm talking about. Actual memes. So you think "Christianity" hasn't discarded and rewritten scriptures? Do you think "Christians" don't pick and choose what scriptures to include in their canon? If not who BUT Christians are responsible for Christianity's canonization process? Don't you realize that many Christians almost completely disregard large portions of whatever particular canon you are referring to as "the bible"? I just intend to say that disregarding and altering scriptures is a shameless way to cover up their own disagreement in their flawed ideologies. That is why Christianity shouldn't even be considered a religion, as it is not directly influenced by God, but made up by man. To the contrary, were Christians to seriously recognize that it is their role to prayerfully determine what scriptures are included in their canons, and through rigorous apologetic dialog, continually exercised that role, it would seem to me that this auditing process could very well serve to subject the contents of these collections to deeper and deeper logical scrutiny and thereby improve (not destroy) Christianity. On what line of trust would these Chrisitians follow upon? They are already timidly stepping around the rotted corpse of their 'religion'. The religion would seem improved in the mind of ignorance, but in the plain of Logic, it would be stared down with shame for calling itself a religion. Not every sect of Christianity accepts the doctrine of biblical infallibility. Plenty of Christians understand the bible as man's imperfect attempt at describing god. Well, it amazes me why they still call themselves Christian. Being a Christian is defined as believing the doctrines, and following the practices that Christians do. They might as well be Agnostic, as them calling themselves Christian is devoid of logic. They might as well discard the bible as another piece of ancient literature, instead of no longer worshiping it while calling themselves worshipers of Jesus Christ. There are sects such as Mormons that view scriptural revelation as an ongoing process as opposed to a completed work. There is no reason that these sects couldn't end up as the majority, if they aren't already. Take a look at America. And their religious shows. And their defending of the Nation under God. And their attending of Churches, and their praying. Praying is also considered a required thing to be Christian. Also baptism. And why 'Christian', when they don't believe in 'Christian'. Then you must admit that there are serious differences of belief within Christianity as a whole. The main meaning of Christianity is worshiping and believing in the Christian God and Jesus, also attending Church, believing in the scriptures and communicating with God by praying Christian prayers. When that is excluded, they are not Christians. They do not take part of the beliefs of the majority that attend Church and love God and all. Really what sect? Catholicism. I was such a deep believer, so was everyone else in my area. There is no bibliocentric religion (regardless of whether it is supposed as man made or divinely inspired) that didn't at one point make use of fallible human decision making to determine what scriptures to include in or exclude from their canon. True. It's a shame that a majority of religious don't see how destructive it can be from what they believe. How would recognizing that church decision making (particularly in regards to what scriptures are canonized) is fallible, since all those involved in the process of canonization are human and fallible, eliminate the word of god? Actual Christians who practice being actual Christians believe the bible is the word of God. From actual God. As it says so in the bible. Altering scriptures makes it no longer the intent of God, but of humans. That's all? I don't really understand what you are getting at here but....As it stands there is already disagreement within Christianity about what books are legitimately part of "the bible". If you pay attention, you will notice that it is common practice for Christians to heavily favor certain sections of their collection and almost totally disregard other sections. I see that. But choosing to disregard chunks of the scripture is really a brazen act of ignorance upon their own flawed beliefs. Most Christians do not believe that god speaks only through the bible. Most Christians believe in continued revelation. What is continued revelation? "Makes a man before even thinking about making a woman. Gives man nipples." (Nipples were originally meant for women, and the fact men have them is a biological mistake as they have no use. Some men can even lactate (produce milk) from their nipples even though they were not meant to be motherly. It is an evolutionary-biological mistake.) Uhhhmm... you gonna dispute this? For some reason it doesn't seem to be popping up for other people. Here's the link: http://imageshack.us/a/img707/1407/ 1
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