Debate Info

True. Wait..., what? No!!!!
Debate Score:11
Total Votes:11
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Argument Ratio

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 True. (7)
 Wait..., what? No!!!! (3)

Debate Creator

jolie(9804) pic

If Mary was truly a virgin when Jesus was born, then why did 3 random dudes showed up...

If Mary was truly a virgin when Jesus was born, 
then why did 3 random dudes showed up at His birth?


Side Score: 8

Wait..., what? No!!!!

Side Score: 3
1 point

Just saying...

Side: True.

I never liked that whole fable. Little of it made sense to me.

I AM a Christian, btw.

But I also know about Myth and Allegory. And how the Torah writers and the NT writers borrowed a lot from earlier religions. Like the Sumerians. Religions, mind you, that pre-dated Christianity.

Like these...............

Side: True.
1 point

Um.. "A star a star high above the trees With a tail as big as a kite" nuff said?

Side: True.
1 point


Hey, I'm not saying the story is bogus, but I'll agree there is much about it which is easy to challenge.

So she was a virgin? Who checked that to confirm it? And does that mean Mary had to sit there with her skirt up while a committee of unbiased virginity checkers took a close look? It's almost as if the 3 wise men part of the story was an effort to hint the virginity was independently verified by those mystery men, though that isn't explicitly stated.

And how is it complete strangers came from far away to witness this miracle but not a single other member from either of their clans was there? How hard would that have been? Didn't their own family have concerns for safe childbirth? They were giving birth to the Son of God, I'd expect a little bit more team effort.

Side: True.

I agree,

Roman Catholics and Muslims seem to have no concern or interest whatsoever in the real and MAIN reason that Mary was chosen. The words of The Angel are completely and totally ignored by both Catholics and Muslims.

Catholics and Muslims narrow in and tunnel vision and focus in on the virginity of Mary, they pretend that Mary was guarding, protecting and safekeeping and preserving Her virginity and chastity. When the fact is that Her own virginity was not mentioned as being important to Her own personal plans - NOR - was the subject of keeping one's virginity even mentioned by the Angel { as anything concerning any importance for any reason as for why she was even chosen }

The Muslim and Catholic prayer and writings are never mentioning and focusing and prioritizing or glorifying the MAIN reason and purpose that The Angel Himself had declared " was the REAL focus " and point of Mary being chosen to give birth to Yahoshua.

In Luke - The angel is telling Mary directly the very important details about the child and why she was chosen.

Yet I have never once heard a Catholic or a Muslim ever mention or glorify or rejoice or indoctrinate the words of The Angel.

Please notice - Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Yahoshua. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: :33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom, there shall be no end.

This - is what the focus of Gods message, dictated through His Angel.

Yet Catholics and Muslims do not focus a moment of a second on any of these words from the Angel.

And, Yes, there is no question whatsoever that the Greek New Testament says that Mary was very favored, very, very graced and gifted and specially chosen to receive the gift, joy and the grace of God. BUT The part of Her virginity was not the main focus of anything throughout the entire gospels.


It was only mentioned twice in reference of the Old Testament Prophecy.


The reason that She was chosen was that She was a direct descendant of the line of King David - as the Angel and of the Old Testament Prophecy declared and focused upon. Yet neither the Quran nor the Vatican doctrines have ever made this important in their message in any capacity. Instead, Catholics and Muslims harp, dwell, focus, tunnel vision and CENTER IN upon the lie and bogus claim that Mary was somehow protecting and safeguarding and hogging and hoarding as a determination in Her MIND, GOALS and SOLE PURPOSE, to KEEP Her virginity, when the Bible says that Her virginity was not what she was planning as the Angel was commanding Joseph to don’t be afraid and to go ahead with their Marriage plan.

Mary was planning sex, planning marriage.

The Angel never commanded Joseph to abstain from having sex with Mary and to hold off and wait until the baby was birthed. According to what we know about The Angel's command - Joseph could have gone ahead and married and had sexual relations with Mary before the birth if He had wanted to - The Angel told Him it was ok to take her at that point - as a wife - as was the marriage plan. !

The Prophecy was that a Virgin would conceive - Not that a Virgin would give birth. There was nothing important about Mary remaining and preserving Her virginity neither in the eyes the Mary nor in the command of the Angel of God. Gabriel. What Roman Catholics do, is focus in on tiny phrases and words and attempt to change their meanings in order to re- write and over - ride and downplay the rest of the storyline.


Of course the Bible says that Mary was a virgin - However, Mary was not this woman that Catholics and Muslims make He out to be.


Mary was not some older woman who had lived a lifetime of being a virgin and guarding Her virginity/ Mary had no interest in being a virgin - She was a normal woman, looking for sexual relations with a man - Her planned to be Husband. Joseph.

Side: True.
1 point

maybe you should actually learn of the biblical account ..

there should be actual answers there for you ...

willful unbelief usually finds no rational answer ...

it only seeks a reason to mock and scoff .... carry on :)

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!!
1 point

I seem to forget that one man's joke is another man's insult.

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!!
jolie(9804) Clarified
1 point

Clarification: I meant no . offense.

Side: True.
Cartman(18192) Disputed
1 point

Your link leads to a website that hates the Bible. I think you made a mistake.

Side: True.
1 point

The "story" of the Nativity was "invented" by St Francis of Assisi several centuries after the birth of Christ as a WAY to explain his birth to the people. The "star", the "wise men" the "manger", all phony figments of a Priest's imagination.

I have little doubt that a MAN named Jesus was born. Obviously a Charismatic MAN, apparently a peaceful and good MAN that attracted many followers .... like a Billy Graham. I have seen NO evidence to convince me that he was a "Son of God", born of a virgin. Nice try, Francis.

Side: Wait..., what? No!!!!
2 points was invented all right. But not by St. Francis.

It goes way back before Him.

Side: True.
AlofRI(2825) Clarified
1 point

I agree about the "story" bring much older, I was referring to the BIBLICAL version. I believe that was "resurrected" by St Francis for Christian consumption.

Side: True.