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24
15
Yes they do No the they do not
Debate Score:39
Arguments:22
Total Votes:46
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 Yes they do (11)
 
 No the they do not (11)

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Tugman(749) pic



Notre Dame versus Obama

Barack Obama has been invited to speak at the University of Notre Dame's commencement ceremony and alumni and students are in outrage.

Many students/alumni are calling for the invitation to be revoked because of Obama's pro abortion views.  If you do not know Notre Dame is a Catholic school and the Catholc Church is against abortion.

Do they have the right to to do so?  In other words is their outrage justified.

Yes they do

Side Score: 24
VS.

No the they do not

Side Score: 15
3 points

Who do you mean has the right to do so? The alumni, or the school?

If you speak of the alumni, then no. Of course not. What have they done? They graduated from the school, they do not run the school. Although they may donate money to Notre Dame, they are not in charge, and them trying to sway the actions of the school simply because they have donated money to it, and I know this happens all the time, is bad. They have little say in the matter. They do not attend the school anymore.

However;

If you meant to ask if the administration of Notre Dame has the right to revoke the invitation, then of course they do. Obviously, someone, in some department, at some time thought that the invitation was a good idea, and people had to agree with him and allow the invitation to make it all the way to the President. This does not mean that the administration must follow through with the invitation, and if they wish to listen to their alumni, students, and supporters, who do contribute a lot of money and can make a very big difference on the future of the institution, it would be a good idea to revoke the invitation. But, it being the President, they probably won't because it would be a major PR problem and a very large number of people would look down upon Notre Dame.

Either way, it comes down to the opinion of the administration.

Side: Yes they do
2 points

They are allowed to invite or uninvite anyone they like, it's a private school. They can invite Hitler's corpse if they want, they could cancel an invitation to Jesus Christ if they so choose.

It would be very dumb though, since the stance of your average Catholic on abortion is proportional to the stance of the general population on abortion, which is to say a few more are for it.

Catholics voted for Obama 53% to 46%.

Let me repeat that,

Catholics voted for Obama 53% to 46%

What you have here is a few hardcore pro-let-women-get-raped-and-make-them-have-the-bastard-child-of-one-of-their relatives-no-matter-what-even-if-they-die-during-labor, making a huge noise over a crowd of slightly pro-Obama people.

Side: more catholics voted obama
2 points

I watched nearly all the political debates prior to Obama's election. The most disturbing comment that I heard was when Obama was asked what his thoughts were on a botched abortion?? in other words the baby was still ALIVE!!! Obama stated that he would not want to interfere in the decision that the mother had already made. He would deny medical attention!

I guess murder in this case is ok!

This clearly reflects the lack of regard for human life. I'm stunned that we need to protect terrorists from waterboarding but not the life of the most innocent. I'm amazed that because there is a controversy as to when life begins individuals believe they are permitted to determine that. What if your wrong??? What if life does begin at conception? What if an individuals very spirit is present at that time?....God knows when life begins and individuals will be held accountable one day when they leave this existence for their decisions on abortion. The decision should have been made long before another life was involved!

Thank-you Notre Dame for standing up to your values!!! I believe Notre Dame should not be forced to have anyone speak at their commencement that does not represent their believes on such an important standard and value. I'm just waiting to see how Obama is going to change HIS views or try to smooth this issue over.

He is very good at talking in circles and avoiding straight talk.

Side: Abortion
1 point

They have every right to protest this. If their school invited a man who does not share their beliefs and they do not want him speaking at their school, why do the have to be quiet and not protest? He should only speak where he is wanted.

Side: Yes they do
ledhead818(638) Disputed
1 point

The administration is not going to uninvite the president are you crazy? They probably would not do that anyone because that's incredibly rude, but the president of all people?

Side: No the they do not
MKIced(2511) Disputed
2 points

I never said that Notre Dame should revoke its invitation. That would be rude. I'm just saying that the students and the alumni have every right to protest this, specifically the students more than the alumni since he would be speaking at the school they STILL go to, but the alumni should have no say over who speaks at their alma mater. If they get enough support, though, I don't see why they shouldn't revoke his invitation, but I'm talking about 100% opposition or close to it. :)

Side: Yes they do
2 points

I understand the school is mad about his stand on abortion (I swear I thought I recently heard somewhere else though that he's suddenly anti-abortion...), but he's the President! THE President! It's a huge insult for that college to tell him to not bother just because of one his political views. If this was us telling the Iran Leader to not come to the US because of something we don't like about him or his country, he'd like, bomb us. (maybe not, but you get my point). Plus, I'm sure everyone at Notre Dame isn't anti-abortion, I mean, no effin way otherwise that school sounds pretty corrupt, so those with the huge problem should just not show up when Obama is there.

Side: No the they do not
Cerin(206) Banned
1 point

So Catholics should pretend Obama doesn't exist just because they disagree with him on one issue?

This "controversy" seems like something stirred up by the far-right. Polls show only 38% oppose of the visit.

54% of Catholics voted for Obama last November. Did they not know he was Pro-Choice back then?

Supporting Evidence: Obama, Notre Dame: Catholics approve (www.swamppolitics.com)
Side: No the they do not
Tugman(749) Disputed
2 points

"54% of Catholics voted for Obama last November. Did they not know he was Pro-Choice back then?"

I remember in another argument that you said surveys or polls are not reliable (or something like that).

"So Catholics should pretend Obama doesn't exist just because they disagree with him on one issue?"

They also disagree on his views on stem cell research. That is two issues.

Side: Yes they do
Cerin(206) Disputed Banned
1 point

I remember in another argument that you said surveys or polls are not reliable (or something like that)

Yes, on the gun ownership debate. The survey attempted to "prove" factual events by asking someone their opinion. I called B.S.

This whole topic concerns people's opinions, not objective events. A survey's perfectly acceptable, unless you know some other means of "proving" opinions.

They also disagree on his views on stem cell research. That is two issues.

Oh, well, there you go. Let's get out the pitch-forks!

Side: No the they do not
ledhead818(638) Disputed
1 point

Why does it matter that he is a not a religious tyrant who wants to impose his beliefs on other people's lives (Stem cell research + abortion)? That isn't going to even be discussed in the speech. It is a commencement speech I don't see how anything like that could possibly come up.

Side: No the they do not
0 points

The alumni/student body only have the power to sway the administration, and seeing as the administration already invited Obama, I doubt they will cancel the invitation. Revoking an invitation to the president would make them look really bad.

It doesn't matter though Notre Dame is a joke of a school anyway. 25% of the student body's parents are alumni. Classic old boys' club private school. Also the words Catholic and University look really weird when adjacent to each other. It's like ignorant center of knowledge.

Side: No the they do not
Tugman(749) Disputed
3 points

Notre Dame is one of the premier schools in the country. I would like to know why being Catholic is being ignorant.

Side: Yes they do
ledhead818(638) Disputed
2 points

If you go by the US News and World Report rankings which are kind of meaningless anyway it is 18th. One of the factors in ranking is alumni donations, and due to the fact that Notre Dame has the most significant legacy policy of any school in the world, obviously alumni give a lot. You don't think it is pathetic at all that a quarter of the school has parents who went there as well? They don't release their admission statistics for subgroups. But at Princeton about 13 to 16 of their student body is comprise of legacy admits. Their legacy admission rate is 40%, about 4 times higher than their normal admit rate. If Notre Dame has 25% legacy admits, we can estimate that their legacy admit rate will be even greater than 40%. It's probably close to 50%. Did one of your parents go to Notre Dame? Flip a coin, heads you're in tails you're not. It's not a surprise that these "elite" private schools make legacy as big a factor as they do. Alumni donations totaled $8.3 billion dollars in 2007. Private schools are businesses and they are in business to make money.

Just because a school is "ranked" as a premier school, doesn't mean anything. As I said the rankings are compounded by corrupt practices such as legacy. These practices limit meritocracy and they use nepotism to perpetuate the status quo. Legacy admits tend to be more wealthy and more often than not are white. They hinder social mobility and any school that practices legacy is committing an affront to education.

Religion in general is the position of ignorance. Faith by definition is belief without evidence. This is the complete opposite mentality of what is supposed to be happening at a university. University is a place of critical analysis and knowledge. If you want to believe in a magical space god fine, but don't claim you used any critical analysis to reach that conclusion.

Side: No the they do not
1 point

You make Notre Dame sound like a cult... (haha).

halallashdflkahsdflkaslalalla (adding more words).

Side: No the they do not
0 points

I prefer the term Old Boys' Club in reference to it's legacy.

Although it is a Catholic school so you could consider it a cult.

Side: No the they do not