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Should George Zimmerman be arrested now?
Trayvon Martin’s death to be subject of federal investigation by Justice Department and FBI...Why is it so hard to bring a man to justice when the facts seem so clear?
Oh please. Everyone is rushing to declare Zimmermann guilty because of the fact that Martin is black so they want to classify it as a hate crime. Zimmermann is actually Mexican, I don't think there enough details yet to make a fair jugdement.
Yeah, sometimes it is shocking when you see this kind thing still happens.
You put it the simplest and most accurate way possible.
Can you imagine if a black middle age man with a criminal record followed around a 17 year old white kid, athlete, no criminal record, good student by all accounts, holding nothing but a bag of skittles, and shot him?
Holy shit.
There would be no "building the case."
He'd 100% be arrested on the spot for murder and held until he made bail, gun taken away, no leaving the state till the trial, etc.
I mean, I get trying to downplay the race thing to avoid spreading tension. But to pretend this isn't about that is pretty naive. It's better to face what's really happening, it's systemic racism.
Yes, their races have the same rights, but a biased judicial system, though it is not in any law to be biased to one race. Zimmerman: I was doing it for self defense.
citizen: He was 10 meters away.
Zimmerman: He was going to knock me out with a can of Iced Tea and then suffocate me by shoving a bag of skittles.
Like the fact that Trayvon (completely unarmed) was being followed by Zimmerman as he was trying to get away while talking to his girlfriend (And this murderer claims self defense? HA!).
Or the fact that Zimmerman refers to blacks as suspicious and calls Martin a "coon."
Or that he says "[coons] always get away."
Or the fact that despite evidence contradicting Zimmerman's claims and pointing towards murder, Zimmerman was not charged with any crime.
After the media brought it up. Before, Zimmerman WASN'T CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME! They did absolutely NOTHING.
Or better yet, please show me how this hypothetical case of yours would result in the black being arrested right away.
Do I need to get into the prison population breakdown?
prove to me that America is a racist nation preying on the black (as you stated).
When did I state this, exactly? This is quite obviously a racially-motivated murder. The killer wasn't even charged with a crime. This is not always the case, but it is with this one. You seem to think that either ALL crimes are racially motivated or NONE of them are. That's just ignorant of logic.
One does not simply charge someone with a crime without sufficient evidence. They even wrote it as a possible homicide when they arrested him in the first place.
They just didn't have enough evidence to start a conviction. Grow up.
Do I need to get into the prison population breakdown?
Black people in prison does not prove intent, sir. I will agree that drug laws, gun laws, and other laws that harm blacks more than whites are already a result of big government (because big government is bad in general, and blacks happen to get fucked by it more, but hey, you're a democrat, so it's just because cops are racist :3 ...)
This is quite obviously a racially-motivated murder.
Most likely, yes.
You seem to think that either ALL crimes are racially motivated or NONE of them are.
Nope, you just have no idea on what I'm talking about. I was saying that what you said in the very beginning (that if the races were switched the guy would be behind bars by now) was a baseless statement motivated by your want to play the race card.
And people who ignore when something is so obviously about race, enable racially-driven injustices like this to continue.
If it were a black man who shot a white kid, he'd have gone directly till jail immediately, not assumed innocent and not ignored until media forced the issue.
And people who ignore when something is so obviously about race, enable racially-driven injustices like this to continue.
Explain how it's obviously about race. what, the perpetrator is hispanic and the deceased is black? The police wrote it as a possible homicide. They're investigating it. His defense is that it was self-defense. The evidence is building up against him, which is interesting since others seem to assume that the cops are too racist to want to do anything about it.
If it were a black man who shot a white kid, he'd have gone directly till jail immediately,
Burgers are pizza. See? I can say whatever I want without justifying it as well.
not assumed innocent and not ignored until media forced the issue.
you mean... not assumed innocent until proven guilty... like what the law says?
1. White/black racism is the only racism on earth.
2. He clearly called the kid "coon" on the tape.
3. How many not-black 17-yr old kids with a bag of skittles has the guy followed around, gun in hand waiting for a chance to shoot?
4. I'm not overly conserned with the racism of one crazy wanna-be vigilante douche bag. I'm more concerned about the systemic racism of how the case has been handled.
so, how was the case handled?
1. They drug tested the dead kid with a bag of skittles, instead of the adult with a gun, who just killed the kid.
2. They assumed his story was the correct version automatically, obviously, since they did not arrest him or even take his gun. This despite the clear tape where the 911 operator says not to follow the kid, his history of imagining crime in every corner we see from his 60+ similar calls, and that he wasn't even a real neighborhood watch, just some dude with a stick up his ass.
Now, there are a lot of ways they fucked up the case, not interviewing the last person Treyvon was on the phone with until the media caught wind of the story, listing him as john doe for three days when they apparently had ID, not letting the father identify the body when he reported Treyvon missing, etc.
Those points could just mean they have a half-ass Mayberry operation going on there and everyone involved in the department should be fired for being idiots, but okay, might not have jack to do with "hey, it's just a black kid, probably slinging dope."
But the two listed points are where you see clearly that it was treated differently based on skin color.
No dead white 17 year old is going to be tested for drugs while the black person who shot them is sent home with their gun. Not going to happen.
No department or officer, black, white, green, yellow, or with stripes, is going to automatically assume the black adults version of events is correct without throwing them in jail for a couple days till bail is made and taking away their gun, in any situation even close to what happened here.
you mean... not assumed innocent until proven guilty... like what the law says?
There's a world of difference between one maintaining innocence until guilt was proven, and not even making an attempt at proving guilt.
1. White/black racism is the only racism on earth.
I'm guessing this is a troll attempt.
2. He clearly called the kid "coon" on the tape.
and? I agree that Zimmerman is most likely a bigot.
How many not-black 17-yr old kids with a bag of skittles has the guy followed around, gun in hand waiting for a chance to shoot?
What kind of a dumb question is that? You do realize you're in a debate forum, not some place for smart-ass comments whenever you realize that your statements of hatred don't hold much ground.
I'm more concerned about the systemic racism of how the case has been handled.
Even if this is the case, this does not validate what Apollo said.
Those points could just mean they have a half-ass Mayberry operation going on there and everyone involved in the department should be fired for being idiots,
or that they found him to be intoxicated as well and are constantly finding evidence against him. If they were truly inept and racist, why do they continue to uncover more problems with Zimmerman's story?
You do realize that once a man is arrested he has a right to a trial. If they had arrested him much earlier, they most likely would not have nearly as much evidence against the man to convict him... but maybe that's what you want. omg, YOU'RE A RACIST.
But the two listed points are where you see clearly that it was treated differently based on skin color.
No, because you did not give me an example of the reverse. Duh.
automatically assume the black adults version of events is correct without throwing them in jail for a couple days till bail is made and taking away their gun,
Making assumptions on hypotheticals is not a proper way to debate.
If they were truly inept and racist, why do they continue to uncover more problems with Zimmerman's story?
You've got to be kidding me! This was a closed case. They let him off free and charged him with NO CRIME whatsoever. It was only after the media brought it up that they even gave half a shit about a dead black boy.
and? I agree that Zimmerman is most likely a bigot.
Good job. I'm a troll, I don't know how to debate. Somehow I'm right though by your own admission.
Okay on to your attempt at logic:
I'm guessing this is a troll attempt.
No, you said he wasn't racist because he's hispanic. I was using sarcasm to point out how how fucking dumb a point that is.
and? I agree that Zimmerman is most likely a bigot.
Establishing I'm correct on this portion of my argument, that he's racist though, as you so insightfully pointed out he's part hispanic.
What kind of a dumb question is that? You do realize you're in a debate forum, not some place for smart-ass comments whenever you realize that your statements of hatred don't hold much ground.
This was your reply to "How many not-black 17-yr old kids with a bag of skittles has the guy followed around, gun in hand waiting for a chance to shoot?" I'll just kind of let your ridiculous reply sit there.
Even if this is the case, this does not validate what Apollo said.
Well, what he said would be helpful. However, me starting the sentence with the word "I'm" sort of makes it inconsequential what Apollo said...
or that they found him to be intoxicated as well and are constantly finding evidence against him. If they were truly inept and racist, why do they continue to uncover more problems with Zimmerman's story?
You do realize that once a man is arrested he has a right to a trial. If they had arrested him much earlier, they most likely would not have nearly as much evidence against the man to convict him... but maybe that's what you want. omg, YOU'RE A RACIST.
You seem to be unaware of the time frame. They waited over a month, and none of the recent findings were made until after the media started covering it. Hence why it is important for the media to cover things like this, because obviously from their complete lack of effort prior, they were not planning on gathering evidence.
And either way, your statement is not based on reality. You can press charges and continue the investigation. You can have someone as a suspect and make sure they don't leave the state, turn in their firearm, etc. They did none of that because they were sweeping it under the rug until the media caught on.
No, because you did not give me an example of the reverse. Duh.
I could just as easily tell you "No, because you did not give me an example of the reverse of what I said. Duh." and it would hold equal water.
Making assumptions on hypotheticals is not a proper way to debate.
You only pasted part of my quote I see, good job captain-debate-the-right-way.
That the police did not begin investigating Zimmerman until there was media pressure is proof enough for this particular case I should think.
Here, I'll walk you through it.
How many cases of a 17 year olds being shot by an adult have there been which were not investigated until the media forced an investigation?
1.
Okay, of those one, how many was it the case that the one who shot the 17 year old made a racial slur, was not black, and killed a black kid, and the police did not investigate it.
1.
So, by that math the burden of proof would need to be on that police department that if a white kid was shot by a black person calling him cracker they would have ignored that as well. Till than my point is valid.
as you so insightfully pointed out he's part hispanic.
yes, I felt it was important to point that out. hurdur.
inconsequential what Apollo said
My response to Apollo (what you attempted to dispute) was a direct rebuttal to his statement. If you are to rebut what I said, you would be agreeing with what he said. So far, completely baseless and a shame to the debate forum.
and it would hold equal water.
once again, Apollo made the claim and you defended his claim without any evidence, sir.
That the police did not begin investigating Zimmerman until there was media pressure is proof enough for this particular case I should think.
Actually, it isn't. Lern tu ddib8 pleez.
How many cases of a 17 year olds being shot by an adult have there been which were not investigated until the media forced an investigation?
No idea. However, if you wish to say that what Apollo said was right, you should provide evidence. lern tu debb8 pleez.
by that math the burden of proof would need to be on that police department that if a white kid was shot by a black person calling him cracker they would have ignored that as well.
Burden of proof is the one who makes the claim. As an Atheist you should know that you do not need to prove that God doesn't exist. Just how I don't need to prove that the police wouldn't do the same in a reversed situation.
If you truly believe that a black man would be arrested and DETAINED (Zimmerman was arrested, not detained, written as a possible homicide, sir) than provide the evidence for it.
Otherwise, focus on the case and stop being such a big baby. OMG, WHITE RICH MAN RULES THE WORLD AND POOR MINORITIES ARE UNDER ATACK FROM THE SYSTEM, WHICH I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE SHOULD BE REALLY REALLY BIG!!!!
Of course, this is a clear case of murder rather than self defense, the young man, Trayvon Martin, posed no threat to George Zimmerman considering he was carrying no weapon of any kind, and the D.A. should be building a case for murder.
Without a doubt. As far as everyone knows (and thus far the evidence does not argue against the fact that) that poor boy did not intimidate, antagonize or confront Mr. Zimmerman. He was just on his way home. If this grown man really felt intimidated by this young man, then he should have left the issue to the police rather than destroy an entire family's life.
I'm not the most educated on the logistics of this case but I'm aware of the important facts about it. From the information I've heard he should most definitely be arrested. Nothing can possibly justify his actions. He saw an African American male who he didn't recognize as a member of the community , judged him , and because of his suspicion shot and killed an innocent human being ! It was out of line , period ! He needs to be arrested , put in jail , and suffer !
And what facts would those be? The retracted statements and edited film and audio on the mainstream media? Or the fact that trayvon double backed, attacked GZ who was walking back to his suv, had a verbal confrontation where TM hit him with a can of iced t, was bashing his head into the concrete and subsequently got checked and is dead, unfortunately. Maybe the eye witnesses and GZ are lying but tose are the "facts" of the case. Let's just let the police do their job. You said he judged TM and killed him but isn't that exactly what your doing to GZ? You admitted you don't know everything but you clearly don't know anything about the case and are still willing to judge GZ. Imagine he was beating the crap out of you how you would judge him.
I beleive anything is possible. I believe that maybe the cries of help was from Zimmerman and that he stopped crying for help after the gun shot because he knew it wasn't neccessary to call for help.
I believe in that but, i have to go with what's logical to me.
Somebody stop crying for help after the gunshot: My logic tells me that is Martin.
Martin has LESS MASS compared to Zimmerman: My logic tells me that how can it be difficult for a grown man not to handle a small child? Not that difficult.
Martin told the police that Zimmerman attacked him first AFTER A MONTH!!!: Isn't that something you will tell the police right away? Maybe he was protecting Martin and being "mature" but i doubt it. I guess he didn't want to tell Martin's parents how violent Martin was because it could break his heart. Again, i doubt it.
Yes, because Zimmerman shouldn't have shot the boy even though he thinks that the boy was suspicious just because he was wearing a hoodie on. As a neighborhood watch, he has no right to do that. He should be arrested for manslaughter or second degree murder. For example, neighborhood watchs, have no right to shoot a person even though the person is suspicious. And the police cleary told him not to follow Trayvon but he consantly did. This is highly unacceptable for killing a innocent teen.
One night about a month ago, a middle aged man killed a young boy walking through his gated neighborhood. Why is this such a hot topic? The boy who was murdered was black, had on a hoodie, and had his pants in his waste band. The victim was Treyvon Martin and the assailant was George Zimmerman who was on neighborhood watch patrol. This vigilante claims he only killed Martin in self defense, but how does this explain the frantic, pleading, agonizing screams begging for help in the back round of a 911 call. Some people might argue that the screams could have been Zimmerman's, but why then did the crying stop after a the gunshot that ended a 17 year old's life sounded. George Zimmerman should be arrested just like any other suspected criminal. Why should he be any different treated any differently? I just know that if a black man had killed a white boy he would be behind bars until he paid his bail or went on trial, not roaming the streets "protecting his neighborhood from "dangerous" 17 year olds.
Zimmerman should most deffinately be arrested because he had no right to shoot him. Trayvon may have looked suspicious but he didn't approach Zimmerman in any harmful way. He even called the police on him and they could've handled it WAYY better then he could. The police told him not to do anything but he did anyways . He shot an innocent kid with skittles and some tea...who tf does that? I mean do you not have anything better to do than shoot some black kids that look suspicious? If it was a black man that shot a white kid in a hoodie with some skittles and tea, they would be locked up at this very moment. I'm just sayin...
He needs to be arrested. If you cant tell that zimmerman is guilty by the evidence already revealed about this case, than you are absolutely retarded or racist...It really isn't about who Trayvon was or the color of his skin...its the fact that a man committed a crime and is not being penalized for it! that's basically saying that its ok to play like the police and take matters into your own hands...which is not okay...if it was? we would not need the police! and lets be real here...if Trayvon was the shooter and zimmerman was the victim? we would not be having this debate because Trayvon would be in prison!
Huh? So, you're saying your not allowed to defend yourself? Unfortunately for your argument the LAW says you can. So I'm a racist because I think you should be able to defend yourself from someone slamming your head into the concrete? That can kill you. Or people wouldn't wear helmets while riding a bike.
The longer they wait the harder it will be to find an imparial jury due to all the media attention this case is building. look at what happened to casey anthony's case.
You dummies of course he should be arrested I mean really who shoots a little kid because he looks suspicious or was it because he was black 64 calls were made to the cops within the 30 days of the death most of them were to report a black folk really I say he should be arrested one for racism two for killing somebody because of their race three for killing somebody who did nothing wrong and four for murder
Of course! Don't let the facts get in your way. No threat? Beating someone in the face and bashing their head into the sidewalk is no threat to you? Ok, see how long you last letting someone bash your head into the concrete. Little kid? 6foot plus is little? Heres your racism buddy. http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf
It's said that only a true fool will continue on his path after being presented with the blindling facts because the fool is already blinded by lies.
No, Not Yet. The cops need to build up and air tight case first. Also..., revenge is a dish best served cold. He'll get his when he least expects it ;)
You think that people should be left free until their case has been finished? I don't believe that a single judicial system in the world works like that currently.
Remember that there is a difference between arrested and imprisoned. People aren't calling for him to be denied a fair trial, simply for that trial to happen.
You clearly know little about our judicial system. You don't arrest someone and then try to build a case. You have to have a case first. Hence why no prosecuting attorney is willing to take this one on...no case.
Even if there was the slightest case a prosecuter would pick this one up and there would be a trial. Maybe this is just a division tool used by the racists in office to gin up racial annimosity to get the african american and white-guilt vote in the swing state of Florida. Note how they are calling it the kill at will law? Ooooo, be scared! It was a dem that passed that law too. No, George Zimmerman should NOT be arrested because there is no probable cause. Evidence points to a self-defense case that ended in the death of a 17year old.
Get the Fu[|< over it, if a black man killed a white man for no reason it would not get this popular but a white man killed a black man for no reason(persay) and it's getting all this bull sh!t this man (I forgot his name) put an address out for what he thought what would be gorge's and it was and elderly couple and they got harassed and sent hate mail. This needs to stop NOW
OK, lets see here, Zimmerman failed to follow orders and pursued Trayvon anyways because he felt he looked suspicious. There are marks on Zimmerman, released by the hospital he went through, which have been claimed to be done by Trayvon in retaliation. Through that retaliation Zimmerman shot Trayvon. WHaaaa? That's right. The womb from the gunshot on Trayvon was a close distance shot. There was a person at the scene who had claimed he had seen a struggle.
Even though none of that will matter to anyone because people want to believe Trayvon was this little angel of a boy, the fact that Zimmerman had made bail he should not be put back into jail.
BTW, THE ONLY REASON THEY ARE PUTTING HIM BACK IS BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN RAISING MONEY FROM PEOPLE DONATING TO HIM.
THE POLICE ARE AFRAID HE WILL TRY TO FLEE THE COUNTRY. Understandable to a point. However, he better not be put in prison!
