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A lot of the artists have remained quite true to the roots of the genre. You deduce your views based upon the representations of rap in popular culture, and that mainstreamed image is not well reflective of rap overall.
Actually, the only major thing that has changed with rap is that popular culture tried to appropriate it and now people think that mainstream "rap" is what rap actually is. It is not.
I disagree, but obviously you are entitled to not like it. The point remains though that your dislike alone does not mean rap is not music. It just means you do not like that genre of music. I do not particularly care for pop music, but it is still music.
You think you know what rap is. By all rights, if you know what music really is then you would know that technically a drummer (especially military snare style) is the ultimate rap music. A rapper (whom the genre is based off) is a poet nothing more.
I base my understanding on rap from my experience of it and my relationships with fairly accomplished rap artists and their bands. I think it is non-nonsensical to say that either the drummer or the rapper is more important because they are both a part of the genre and contribute to the musical piece.
Unfortunately, the genre gets a bad reputation due to what constitutes mainstream rap. What popular culture produces and consumes has very little to actually do with the genre as it is practiced by most of its composers and performers. In truth, rap has stayed very true to its roots and there is a lot of incredible work being done within the genre. For instance, check out Guante and Big Cats.
it's not a debate about what is good or bad rap its about acknowledging what the difference between rap and music and if it should be classed as such. I like that you are trying to get the word out that there are good things being done but, rap as a genre itself isn't what it seems to be. All music is rap. Rap is defined as a genre by how a person goes about reading off their poetry. A rapper is a poet. A drummer is a drummer and a melody is a melody. There are huge differences.
What I have heard from people is effectively that rap is not music because they do not like it. You have tried to argue that rap is just poetry, but as I have already explained most lyrics in most genres are poetic and rap does have musical accompaniment. A rapper may be a poet, but when they are combined with a band and become part of the rap genre then the rap itself is music.
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rap music
noun
a style of popular music, developed by disc jockeys and urban blacks in the late 1970s, in which an insistent, recurring beat pattern provides the background and counterpoint for rapid, slangy, and often boastful rhyming pattern glibly intoned by a vocalist or vocalists.
The music of the genre takes second part to what the rapper has to say and the rapper is what defines the genre. Not the music. I don't even think that rapper should be coined as a separate musical entity, in the end they are just vocalists and a vocalist is synonym for singer. The musical element of rap is the fact that the rapper will say what he has to say fast. The song Chop Suey - System of a down is my main point to the fact that any musical genre can make a rapid audio blow and not be considered rap. Doesn't necessarily make you anything different. They merely take a repetitive pattern and say "Look at me I am God" For the most part, that goes for main stream and underground. 85% of rap is crap and is half-assed and that is being generous.
I am not even certain what you are arguing anymore. On the one hand you say that the rapper is separate from the music, and so rap is not music. On the other hand you say that the rapper should not be coined as a separate musical entity as they are a vocalist. If anything, your critique is that the audiences laud the vocalist/rapper too much in the genre not that rap is not music. And to be fair, again, that is not a unique critique to rap since most vocalists get more attention than the rest of the band. Think Queen - Freedy Mercury got a lot more attention than the others... would you seriously contend that Queen is not a musical group?
System of a Down is mainstream and exactly what I was saying does not represent the genre. Did you know that 85% of statistics are also made up? Seriously, where did that even come from beyond a personal opinion?
What I am arguing is that a rapper stands to glorify himself by today's classification of rap. They see themselves as seperate entities in music. I find it pathetic because real rap is part of the hip hop genre. The rap genre is just to watch some dumb as glorify himself while throwing all him money in your face and music itself is simply a beat flowing in time. Yet a rapper can write a rap on paper and the poetry still be considered a rap but it is not music until you add the beat and musical ruthem and melody. Hell people get so confused now days when somebody writes in a rhyme. They think its rap all the damn time.
I respectfully disagree. I reiterate that the self-glorification of the vocalist is not unique to rap, and that that is not even an inherently true observation of rap artists in general. The rap artists I listen to and know do not exhibit the behavior you claim rappers have.
Regardless, rap is part of the musical genre of hip hop and should be classified as what it is a style applied to music. Nothin more nothing less. I don't care if its what I'm referring to or if its what you are referring to. Rap should be classified as a style of music. Not music itself. Hell I don't even care man. The style can be regarded like a church. You have the first church. Then there becomes 250 interpretations of what that churches beliefs are and what I believe rap is is simply hip hop. The genre encorperates many styles of rap and the general attribulation is going to be the mainstream. What the highest trend is. I know there are great artists out there that perform the very Essenes of what good rap is. I feel what you seem to forget is that these mainstream artists had to come from the underground.
Music is music, no matter what way you want to slice time. My example was System of a down's Chop suey that you (with all due respect) rejected because it was mainstream. My point was that you can go "Rap a tat tat tiddly tat" all you want and that it is still going to be the same aspect of rap. Rap must be classified as a style within a musical construct. There is also the slow "tee tee tee dum dee dum" Music is something that most people have no clue about. They don't consider that music is all the same. The same 12 notes inside of 5 different octaves. Of course it's musical but, it should be classified as a style there of and not music itself because there is just so much that music is and rap is a sliver of what music is. But take out the rapper and you have nothing more then music. A beat, a rythem, a time division, all of which must compliment eachother. Rappers as i have been saying is just a guy who wants to speak fast in a rhyme to a beat and since rappers have mostly polluted what it is really all about I can say again that it should be classified as a style inside of a genre.
"Hip hop music, also called hip-hop,[1][2] rap music,[2][3][4] or hip-hop music,[2][5] is a music genre consisting of a stylized rhythmic music that commonly accompanies rapping, a rhythmic and rhyming speech that is chanted.[2] It developed as part of hip hop culture, a subculture defined by four key stylistic elements: MCing/rapping, DJing/scratching, break dancing, and graffiti writing.[6][7][8] Other elements include sampling (or synthesis), and beatboxing."
To be perfectly blunt I think you are losing the question in a semantic quagmire. I am done with this conversation. It is not going anywhere and I have said all that I have to say.
Great, you don't have to win neither do I. We are simply to opposing opinions on the subject. I know that it is a style of music that fits nicely in a genre. My biggest point in all of this is that I would be referring to Gangster Rap. A particular linguistic style inside a broad topic. but all rap shares one thing in common and it defines the style of music a poet reciting his poetry swiftly and to a rhythm but, I hold my stance that poetry is not music. Music doesn't need a vocalist and down at it's core the real music is the in tone of dudes voice. Rap is the poetry.
Thank you for agreeing that we can agree to disagree. You have more maturity in allowing the debate to conclude than a number of others I have engaged with. Cheers.
As one whom doesn't really enjoy or get pleasure from rap music, and frowns down upon mainstream modern day rap music, I must admit it is music. I think essentially my point on this is the same point as Jace, as I was unsure whether or not I agreed with this statement, until I saw some of Jace's arguments. I also have a brother whom has a strong appreciation for rap music, and actually writes and somewhat pursues it for an opportunity of a career in it. For me a lot of rap I have heard honestly sounds like poetic "sing-talking" with a beat, so I can understand where Links is coming from. At the same time the "beat" is enough to call it music, and I am sure that is not the only musical thing that they use in it. Having a brother whom seems to greatly appreciate rap, I understand that mainstream rap today is significantly different from old day's rap. I do quite frown down upon mainstream rap today however, though I understand it does not dictate rap, perhaps if rap had a significantly different culture around it I might appreciate it, though I feel I can only appreciate it as unique from music personally, but that's just me.
Disagree, rap is poetry. The beat is the real music. Rap today isn't even all that great. Rap was about a hard knock life on the street. Now days its perverted by all dat moniez an hoes. Bunch of retards attempting poetry if you ask me.
Rap can be about anything the person deems it to be. Its about how you feel or how you see the world.
Now days its perverted by all dat moniez an hoes.
It may be hard to find some good rap but not all rap is like that. We still have rappers that say silly things but they have a great meaning behind it usually by satire.
Rap can be poetic, but most music with lyrics is poetic to some extent. What makes it music is that it has musical accompaniment that is distinct enough to merit its own categorization. I think you have an incredibly skewed view on what rap is. Mainstream, popular rap is not at all an accurate representation of the genre (most popular music is a poor representation of any genre). Most rap is not mainstream and is not about "all dat moniez an hoes". Try looking into artists like Guante and Big Cats. Poetic and musical with good beats and no moronic or derogatory language.
Thank you once again for taking what I had said and butchering it for your own pleasure. I hope it allowed you to say something useful. I have my views on rap and they are as such because when someone raps, they are either speaking spoken language or reciting written word. Music is a company acting in unison with eachother. I agree not all rap is bad but it's gotten to the point where any girl that I meet listens to the crap rap. I have buddies who rap and have made a fair go at it but it's not my cup of tea. I'll check them out though those "guante and big cats". (A side note The only thing that has been saving rap today is the musical melody of the chorus)
With all due respect I do not think that I misrepresented your views. You said that rap is just poetry and that music has beats; I replied that most music genres with lyrics are just as poetic and that rap does have musical accompaniment. You said that you thought rap was not that great because it is just about "all dat moniez an hoes"; I said that not all rap is about this. I will add that you are absolutely entitled to not like rap, but that does not mean rap is not music. It sounds like part of the problem is that you're surrounded by bad rap and people who enjoy it; I hope something strikes you with Guante and Big Cats (though I understand if it's still not your cuppa).
I completely agree. To me music is something that sounds good and has a deep/inner meaning rap has neither of these qualities. But I really don't think rap is poetry. Poetry has meaning and can be beautiful, like I said before rap is none of these things.
I tend to agree with you. Besides, music is more about dividing time within 4 bars and music have you ever read a piece of sheet music in your life? When you are listening to someone's rap you are listening to what he/she has to say. The music is what either makes it enjoyable or unnerving. Music servers to play a role in the feeling the artist is trying to convey through his raps.
(Edit: didnt mean to dispute, took my own point away.)
""Rap is crap that has artists like 50 Cent."
These are people who know nothing about rap, and judge it by what they see on TV.
If you REALLY know what rap is then you'd know 50 Cent sucks balls and isn't a good rapper at all.See the people who like rap, and actually understand rap know 50 Cent is not a good rapper.Rap is poetry, despite what any other person says. Rap is like poetry with attitude,poetry with a bit of gangsterism. Look at Mos Def. That is a real rapper. Somebody like 50 Cent or Cassidy has nothing on somebody like Mos Def.
"To me music is something that sounds good and has a deep/inner meaning rap has neither of these qualities."
Then you must not have heard all rap or else your words would be different. Rap can have some of the deepest meanings. It uses different literary devices.
" But I really don't think rap is poetry. Poetry has meaning and can be beautiful, like I said before rap is none of these things."
Rap clearly is poetry. I have studied both. Poetry and rap go hand in hand. Poetry can be sappy and terrible and so can rap. Poetry can be amazing and so can rap.
You did read that I said "CAN be beautiful" right? I know not all poetry is good.
Poetry can be amazing and so can rap.
I really have to disagree with this every rap I've (Unfortunately) Listened too was terrible I haven't listened to any good rap.
I dislike rap it is completely opinion based you said in an argument you didn't like dubstep because it sounded like "robot porn." I like dubstep it's pretty good. but to me rap... just sounds... terrible. Everyone I've listened too has only had a few meanings, Sex, drugs, violence and getting drunk. These meanings don't appeal to me in any way. This meaning is a lot bettter to me and actually sounds good, You can tell that he's been through this and that it hurts.
Never said I didnt like it. I just called it "Machine Porn". Because it literally is created by human fingers that have intercourse with a machine and when that machine makes noises the human likes you have dubstep.
"Everyone I've listened too has only had a few meanings, Sex, drugs, violence and getting drunk."
Oh so according to your logic thats all that rap talks about? You truly have not heard all of rap because the number one thing rap talks about is love. Rap can be the most free flowing thing. It is vocal poetry.
I could only find a few of those songs so I'll base it on what I found.
You have a fair point with the meaning side of the argument. But that doesn't mean they sound good. The ones I found really didn't appeal to me and sounded really bad not to mention that the eminem one doesn't need as much swearing in it a it did.
The issue is that you are listening to the wrong rap. Popularized, mainstream rap is generally a terrible representation of the genre (as it is with most genres, really). There is a lot of rap that sounds good, has an important message/meaning, and is also poetic. Check out artists like Guante and Big Cats.
as far as I can tell, your "Freestyle" to me was nothing more then derogatory poetry. No beat, no melody. Just a sick boy with a foot in his mouth, you see?
Rap is nothing but poetry.
po·et·ry
/ˈpōətrē/
Noun
Literary work in which special intensity is given to the expression of feelings and ideas by the use of distinctive style and rhythm;...
Real music can stand without the defining ingredient of the style. The rapper. Music is music and rap being classed as music is like classifying everyone on create debate musicians. Yes rap has musical elements but the style itself is based around the linguistics. Music doesn't need a lyricist to be what it is. Rap needs a rapper to define what it is. The day that a beat can lose it's rapper and still be classified as rap is the day I will agree that rap is music.
(Yes: you can take the melodic of a rappers spit and lose the linguistics and you'll see what I mean by this, that's it.)
