No, saying Abraham doing more things for God, and saying God does not benefit don't make sense.

God already knows what he will choose and do so how does he gain what he already knew of?

Lie: Abraham, I want you to kill your son.

How was that a lie if it was a test?

So it is not lying if the target you are deceiving doesn't know? God said kill your son. End result no son died. If God does not say kill your son, end result no son died. Well, in both scenarios son does not die. How exactly does the son count as spared?

The son didnt die. He was spared. What if God had him slayed then what? That is why he was spared.

Also show me the verse that says he "wants" him slayed.

He should have been punished for attempted murder, some great being.

Your going to punish a God, who cannot be bound by human law? That makes no sense.

I am not stupid enough to read the Bible. I just go by what you tell me is in it.

No evidence? Okay.

Double standards are double standards. If thousands of people tell you that the God of the Bible is mean, maybe they are right.

Okay.

Giving people stuff is bribery.

Britannica definition of bribery: bribery, the act of promising, giving, receiving, or agreeing to receive money or some other item of value with the corrupt aim of influencing a public official in the discharge of his official duties.

That doesnt fit the story.

Also again, show me proof of your claims.

You admit that Abraham had more faith, I am working with that premise.

No you are not.

Show me the proof that you are correct otherwise I am done arguing with you.

First admit that you believe that lying is trickery

You made the positive claim. Show me your evidence. Otherwise you are just talking rubbish.

No benefit to God?

If God already knew then he gains nothing. That is why your statement doesn't make sense.

Wrong. God told him a lie the whole time. That's trickery where I am from, planet Earth, heard of it?

God told a lie? What was the lie?

Oh and yes I have heard of planet Earth. I live on it.

Evil in my book, since your divine being is evil.

I see. Well I cannot change your opinion, Cartman. I also am not really a Christian. I just argue for it until I can make perfect sense of everything. So, I can understand why you think he is evil. Mostly because of the mass killings and brutalic punishments right?

So you now deny that Abraham liked God more.

No verse? Okay.

HAHAHAHAHA

I agree.

No, he wasn't, God never intended for him to die.

Absolutely. Now did Abraham know this? No.

False, Abraham still blindly follows a crazy person

Crazy deity if I may correct you. I respect your opinion.

Telling someone to kill is benevolent. What if I tell you to kill yourself, am I benevolent still.

Did Isaac die? No. Did God lie? No. God gave Abraham much more than he expected.

Didn't you say that Abraham knew that his son would be resurrected? So, Abraham knew that his son would be alive in some form. Didn't you say that?

Resurrected is not the same as spared. Resurrected implies that he died. Spared means he never died. He was spared.

If someone says "I will resurrect your son"" and doesn't resurrect your son, they lied, conditions or not.

Oh okay. Where did he say specifically "Abraham I will resurrect your son?

Unless you are God, in which case, it doesn't matter what people think of you. Weird how that works.

I was talking to you. I don't see what God had to do with that statement.

God bribed Abraham. Abraham didn't have any faith at all.

Where did God bribe Abraham? Show me the verse, please.

So, you totally ignore all of the pain and suffering that Job went through, and I missed something?

I don't know. Are you? The suffering is irrelevant. I gave you what Job was think after his suffering.

And, this doesn't make sense.

Sorry, I can't make that any more clearer.

Yeah, we are. You are just in denial.

Not even close.

You say no to the way I say it, but we both agree that Abraham had more love for God. Thus, "looked" better.

Show me the verse that supports you.

I still have faith in you to recognize that lying is trickery, even if you fail to see it in yourself.

He lied? Show me the verses he lied about.

You know He lied, you just can't admit it to yourself. God told Abraham that He wanted Abraham to kill his son. You know that God didn't actually want that, therefore God kind of lied

Show me the verse where God claimed he "wanted" Abraham to. Giving command is different. Show me the verse that supprots you.

This part is more of the details of the incident, so this is where we do start to disagree.

Yep. I agree with you here.

I am not trying to say we were on the same page. I think at this point we are in the same book, though.

Whatever you mean by same book, sure.

I bet I can lol. With my DSR 50 of course. What is your accuracy with your best sniper rifle?

How are all Chriatians evil hypocrites?

How does Abraham benefit from having more faith?

He can do more things for God. He can do things he may have been afraid to do. He can overcome more.

How was it possible for a guy who was going to kill his own child to have more faith anyway? No matter how much you try to deny it, God made Himself look better to one of His followers through trickery.

No it is not. No trickery occured. God only wanted Abraham to know if his son was placed above God. If he was faithful to God. If he believed in God's promise. That is it. This doesn't change God.

You said it helped increase Abraham's faith, which means made God look better. You said the same thing with different words.

No. It doesn't. God doesn't change. This was for Abraham's sake. I am not telling you again. You read the passage for yourself.

Thank you for the warning ;) I was able to brace myself for it

Then you must brace a lot when you think to yourself. That is sad.

An evil gesture

A divine command. "Evil" is an adjective and thus this is only your opinion. You have never proven this was an evil gesture.

Interesting, God seems like a better guy to Abraham

Oh okay. Show me a verse where it says it made God look better. Go ahead. I'll wait.

Stopping someone from killing someone that you told them to kill is benevolence. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

That is benevolence.

1) The son was spared.

2) Abraham grew in faith.

3) God gave Abraham the power to overcome.

Acts of benenvolence. Get with the program.

You told me he did, I guess you are ignorant for telling me that then.

I told you that Abraham knew his son would be spared? Show me where I said that. Otherwise, this is a lie.

Who is the liar now? You just got through saying that Abraham would not have killed his son, then you aren't sure

You gave a different situation and I answered to that situation.

If this story was in the Koran, you would say it is an example of the evil displayed in the Koran. Apparently I have to spell it out for you.

If the story was the exact same in the Koran I would be telling you the same thing I have been. I haven't read it so I can't say anything about it. Don't assume i would call it bad.

What promise? That his son would be resurrected? But, He didn't let the son get killed, so the son didn't die, so the son didn't get resurrected. So, God lied?

How did God lie if conditions were not met?

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son, 18 of whom it was said, “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 19 He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, ...

This is the verse. Abraham knew the promise and the only way it could be fufilled would be for it to have Isaac be resurrected. Abraham never doubted God would do so.

I have noticed this is the tactic of all of my dumb opponents. What is next, are you going to tell me I am attacking you because I disagree with you, and not because you make no sense?

If one man calls you mean then it may not be true.

If two men call you mean it may not be true.

If three men call you mean, well you may be mean.

Abraham does not benefit from more faith. Abraham had a great amount of faith and God told him to kill his son. Some benefits.

Genesis 17

1 Abram was ninety-nine years old when the Lord appeared to him again and said, “I am God All-Powerful. If you obey me and always do right, 2 I will keep my solemn promise to you and give you more descendants than can be counted.” 3 Abram bowed with his face to the ground, and God said:

4-5 I promise that you will be the father of many nations. That’s why I now change your name from Abram to Abraham.[a] 6 I will give you a lot of descendants, and in the future they will become great nations. Some of them will even be kings.

7 I will always keep the promise I have made to you and your descendants, because I am your God and their God. 8 I will give you and them the land in which you are now a foreigner. I will give the whole land of Canaan to your family forever, and I will be their God.

Abraham gained a lot. A lot.

How about Job, he had tons of faith, that didn't work out so well.

Job worked it out quite well actually.

He firstly states the accepted view of the way God governs the world (31:2-3).

He indicates that God knows him, and his life, and therefore this accepted view cannot be what's happening to him (31:4). For if ruin is the prescribed punishment for the wrong-doer, then why does God, who sees Job's life in all its details, allot ruin to him, for he is not a miscreant or a wrong-doer, and God knows it.

Job relates the morality and compassion that characterized his life (31:5, 16-22).

He gives the basic rationale of his existence (31:23). Here Satan's accusations, of which Job knew nothing, are clearly repudiated. Here Job makes it clear that his manner of life resulted from his knowledge of God, and the terror, or awe, that God's majesty and greatness induced. He lived the way he did because of who God was, not because of what God gave. Job stood in awe of God. Reverencing Him. Responding to his greatness, not twisting his arm for blessings. (Read Micah 6:8, and Matthew 5:48).

Job also describes his faith: He did not divide his confidence between God and his riches (31:24-25), nor did he divide his worship between God and God's creation (31:26-27), because his desire was to be faithful to God. This is the reason for his singularity of faith and worship (31:28). Compare Jeremiah 9:23-24.

Job does not see himself as sinless (31:33-34).

Try again, Cartman.

But, after this trickery love for God saw a net increase. Who benefits? God, there is more love for Him

The love for God benefits man not God. God does not grow or learn anything knew. So why would it affect him? That is for mankind to grow in. Love benefits man for man is fallen.

You have no idea how close we really are. We agree to every point except that you foolishly believe that no matter what God does, it is good stuff. We don't treat anything like that.

We are not close in an sense.

1) You think this made God look better. I said no.

2) You think this is trickery. I said no.

3) You think God lied. I said no.

4) You think God didn't keep his promise. I said no.

We are not on the same page. Don't claim that we are.

KillerBee, I bet I can quick scope better than you can.

That is your opinion.

Clearly God benefits from having more loyal followers.

God was God before we existed. He gains nothing. This for Abraham. This is not for God. How many times must I tell you this?

I was saying that He looks like a good guy to Abraham, which is what you said.

No, I never claimed that at all. I only said God tested his faith.

Abraham was loyal enough to God to kill his own son, therefore it was not done for Abraham, it was done for God.

Terrible logic. The implication of the predicament should be obvious to you. God, deliberately commanded Abraham to slay his son in a sacrificial manner. Abraham, in strong faith in the accord of God, knew God won't break his promise, therefore he was able to accept the command given for God. As he was about to kill him God stopped him for the sake of Abraham and his son. He let Abraham know that he knows that Abraham trusts him and he confirmed it with Abraham, who wasn't expecting such an act of benevolence and confirmation. God gained nothing. Abraham grew closer to God. What did God gain? Nothing. He is outside of temporal space time so what is there to gain if he is Alpha and Omega?

This has nothing to do with faith, and you are living a lie, hahahaha. If Abraham does something because he knows the outcome, then no faith was used.

How ignorant. Did Abraham know that his son would be spared? Did he? NO. His faith grew stronger since God exceeded his expectation. Again, this is for Abraham. God gains nothing.

God said to Abraham kill your son, so Abraham was not going to kill his son before that.

How nice. You are finally using logic. Yes, Abraham had no reason to kill his son.

God stops Abraham from killing his son, which he wouldn't have done in the first place

That all depends. We don't know what would have happened if Abraham tried something else. God wanted to see if he was faithful and if he believed in the promise. Abraham did. So God confirmed Abraham so his faith may grow.

Net change, nothing except that Abraham has more faith.

Yep. Keep using logic. You are doing great.

That's trickery if it is in the Koran, weird.

The Koran? I am talking about the Holy Bible. Not the Koran. Also God made Abraham a promise so no trickery was performed. You just have nothing better to say.

Just because you think I only insult doesn't mean I only insult. Just because I insult you doesn't mean I only insult. Just because you read every word I write doesn't mean you understood it.

I understood just fine. You however did not. You constantly mock God. That is all you are good at. You lack the skill to debate properly. That is your problem.

Right now, you are saying the exact same thing about Abraham that I am.

You claimed: For God's benefit & Trickery.

I claimed: Not for God's benefit, but for Abraham's & No Trickery.

We are not on the same page at all.

If he killed his son and revived him it would be a sign of gods power, but Abraham was TRUSTING god to revive his son.

You are failing to hear what I am saying. His expectation wouod be met. No growth in faith woul occur.

God was creating an Illusion to convince Abraham to trust him.

This is no illusion. This is no "trickery". This is simply a testament of faith for Abraham.

You: That's exactly what I said.

False. Don't lie.

Remember I said this?

Me: This wasn't for God

You keep saying that God did it to be a good guy. That is false.

Who the heck is He going to look good to? Abraham. Of course I was talking about Abraham in the exact way you are. You clearly have the ignorance here.

Oh really? You still fail to realize that God was already seen as good. God did this for Abraham. FOR ABRAHAM. NOT FOR GOD. Listen to what I am saying to you.

You worship a God that pretended that He thought it was a good idea for Abraham to kill his own child in order for Abraham to believe more strongly in Him.

You have a stong lack of biblical knowledge. God gives command to Abraham to sacrifice his son. Okay?

Abraham is a faithful man and knows for a fact God will resurect him anyways so he will remain faithful and fulfill God's command okay? Are you following along, Cartman?

Abraham lays his son down and as he is about to kill him God stops Abraham and tells him to stop and tells Abraham "I now know you trust me". To Abraham he is like "God believes in me? Yay!" This strengthens his faith. That was the whole point. This test was for Abraham. Not for God. If you cannot grasp thay sinple concept then just drop it.

You don't even understand what I post, how can you say it is all those things?

Lies. Again, Cartman, stop lying. You only insult. That is all you are good at. Just leave it. I can say these things because you never have an actual argument. Just an insult. Just leave it.