God? Or Evolution?
For those of you that have answered, I am "YourWorship". I am not biased. Make me your enemy if you want. I will argue until pigs fly. And I am serious about this topic!
Yes there is a God.
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No there isn't we evolved.
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I would argue that creation stands on a much firmer foundation then evolution. Even Darwin denounced his own theory before his death. Additionally there are things in the bible that are not explainable by any other measure than a supernatural intelligence. For instance the fact that our sun is traveling in an elliptical orbit through our Milky Way Galaxy was first mentioned by the Psalmist in (Ps 19:4b -6) “4 the heavens has God made a tent for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; and it rejoices as a strong man to run his course. 6 Its going forth is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the ends of it; and nothing [yes, no one] is hidden from the heat of it.” Science has now confirmed that our sun is not stationary as was once thought but it is indeed traveling in an elliptical orbit through our galaxy. Again in Job before we had the ability to do any deep sea exploration God contended with Job in Job 38:16 and said, "16 Have you explored the springs of the sea? Or have you walked in the recesses of the deep?" How could the writer of the book of Job 2000 years ago know about something we have only just now been able to confirm with the latest technology, that the deep sea contains springs of water in them. God goes on to say in (v25) "Who has prepared a channel for the torrents of rain, or a path for the thunderbolt," here God mentions “the channel of the torrents of rain” or in the modern vernacular, the "jet stream." And again God mentions things about the constellations to Job that nobody could know without a Hubble telescope. In (vv31-32) God says, "Can you bind the chains of [the cluster of stars called] Pleiades, or loose the cords of [the constellation] Orion? 32Can you lead forth the signs of the zodiac in their season? Or can you guide [the stars of] the Bear with her young?" (Job 38:31-32 AMP) Only now with the help of super telescopes like Hubble can we see that the constellation we call Pleiades, is made up of a cluster of 250 separate suns all traveling in synchronous fashion through our galaxy. This cluster of stars has and will continue to be a cluster from the beginning of time to the end of time. It is literally bound together as God said. By contrast the “belt” “(cords) of Orion” mentioned in the same text is made up of three separate suns traveling in distinctly different trajectories, and at some point in time they will no long appear in line as they do now, but will separate from each other, thus loosening their affiliation with each other. Amazing how’d they know that 2000 years ago? And then there is the book of Daniel which describes the rise and fall of four successive world empires in vivid detail. The Babylonian Empire (605 BC- 538), Medo Persian Empire (538 BC- 331 BC), Grecian Empire (331 BC- 168 BC), and the Roman Empire (168 BC- 476 AD). Yet Daniel is a man living in a set period of time well before the rise and fall of these nations. So accurate is the interpretation of the Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel chapter 2 that it explains in detail that the Roman Empire represented by the two legs of iron would begin as one and later be divided in two, East and West; Rome being the seat of the Western Roman Empire and Constantinople being the seat of the Eastern Roman Empire. Then in the latter end of that Kingdom it would be destroyed from within (i.e. the ten toes being part of clay and part of iron) symbolizing division. That during that time the God of heaven would set up a Kingdom that would have no end. (i.e. Jesus Christ and His Kingdom). Now add to these facts that geologists still use the bible to locate ancient cities. Why because it is that accurate. So I would say anyone who doesn't believe the bible is an accurate record needs to first explain how the writers of the bible tell us things we can only now confirm with computers and modern technology. The bible explains the tides. In (Is 40:22) Isaiah was the first one to tells us the earth is spherical in nature not flat as was supposed by the people of his day. Aristotle proved Isaiah right some 300 years later. The fact that the heavens are still in a state of expansion has only been confirmed in the last 100 years using modern scientific techniques, yet in this same verse Isaiah says, “Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” Then there are the laws of sanitation God gave to his people to prevent disease. He had them wait to circumcise their children on the eighth day after birth because as we now know that is the first day coagulation of the blood is possible. In (Ec. 1:7) Solomon explains the earth water cycle regarding evaporation and condensation, rain and the return of rain to the sea in detail. “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full; to the place from which the rivers come, there they return again.” Over and over again the bible reveals scientific details about the world around us making laughing stocks out of scientist that persist in questioning its authority. You would have to be a total ignoramus to not believe the bible. And the bible is the only source that provides a reason for our being here, a valid explanation for how the first particle of matter came into existence. The bible accurately predicts that our current solar system exists in a closed system that is cosmological lingo for it having a definite beginning and a definite end. The strange thing about a closed system is that science proves that for a closed system to begin there must be an initiating force. Like a toy car you have to wind it up first then let it go. It wanders across the kitchen floor until it runs out of steam and then you have to wind it again. That is the definition of a closed system. So how is it that they can emphatically declare our solar system a closed system meaning they know it is winding down and coming to an inevitable end at some point in the future, but they willfully ignore the fact that to be such a system there had to be someone there at the beginning to wind it up and let it go. So I feel like I am standing on some pretty firm footing knowing how the first particle of matter came into existence and what's going to happen from here. But the evolutionist has no answer for where that first particle of matter came from. They expect you to believe it just miraculously came into existence on blind faith. What? Did I say faith? Did I say miracle? I thought those two things were anathema to the atheistic religion. Oh yes atheist are people of faith alright they believe they are right regardless of the evidence to the contrary. They blindly accept the fact that they have no plausible solution to how or where the matter in the universe came from. Evolution is a hoax propagated by secular progressives in an effort to silence people of faith, so they can prosper in their efforts to create an immoral utopia devoid of any absolute truth or moral authority. Side: Yes there is a God.
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"I would argue that creation stands on a much firmer foundation then evolution. Even Darwin denounced his own theory before his death." Creationism's foundation is definitly not better than evolution's foundation, in fact it's worse off. Creationism claims that everything was made the same as it is now, and that nothing changed by a creator pretty much at the snap of his fingers. It has nothing to back it up, and contradicts evolution which is backed up by over a century of evidence, and research. "Additionally there are things in the bible that are not explainable by any other measure than a supernatural intelligence." yes, but in order for that to matter at all what-so-ever means you have to prove everything in the bible is real, and I bet you right now almost none of it, and if any its more shotty history than anything else. "For instance the fact that our sun is traveling in an elliptical orbit through our Milky Way Galaxy was first mentioned by the Psalmist in (Ps 19:4b -6) “4 the heavens has God made a tent for the sun, 5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; and it rejoices as a strong man to run his course. 6 Its going forth is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the ends of it; and nothing [yes, no one] is hidden from the heat of it.” Science has now confirmed that our sun is not stationary as was once thought but it is indeed traveling in an elliptical orbit through our galaxy. " now you are quoting the bible and translating it into modern day science, the heavens could be completely unrelated to the sun, and if they are the people of that time that really saw what was going on above earth may have tried to explain it using god, as religion begins where knowledge ends. As you are only making a connection of a hypothetical translation and mere fact which is not all that justified and proves nothing for theism. "Again in Job before we had the ability to do any deep sea exploration God contended with Job in Job 38:16 and said, "16 Have you explored the springs of the sea? Or have you walked in the recesses of the deep?" How could the writer of the book of Job 2000 years ago know about something we have only just now been able to confirm with the latest technology, that the deep sea contains springs of water in them. God goes on to say in (v25) "Who has prepared a channel for the torrents of rain, or a path for the thunderbolt," here God mentions “the channel of the torrents of rain” or in the modern vernacular, the "jet stream." And again God mentions things about the constellations to Job that nobody could know without a Hubble telescope. In (vv31-32) God says, "Can you bind the chains of [the cluster of stars called] Pleiades, or loose the cords of [the constellation] Orion? 32Can you lead forth the signs of the zodiac in their season? Or can you guide [the stars of] the Bear with her young?" (Job 38:31-32 AMP) Only now with the help of super telescopes like Hubble can we see that the constellation we call Pleiades, is made up of a cluster of 250 separate suns all traveling in synchronous fashion through our galaxy. This cluster of stars has and will continue to be a cluster from the beginning of time to the end of time. It is literally bound together as God said. By contrast the “belt” “(cords) of Orion” mentioned in the same text is made up of three separate suns traveling in distinctly different trajectories, and at some point in time they will no long appear in line as they do now, but will separate from each other, thus loosening their affiliation with each other. Amazing how’d they know that 2000 years ago? And then there is the book of Daniel which describes the rise and fall of four successive world empires in vivid detail. The Babylonian Empire (605 BC- 538), Medo Persian Empire (538 BC- 331 BC), Grecian Empire (331 BC- 168 BC), and the Roman Empire (168 BC- 476 AD). Yet Daniel is a man living in a set period of time well before the rise and fall of these nations. So accurate is the interpretation of the Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel chapter 2 that it explains in detail that the Roman Empire represented by the two legs of iron would begin as one and later be divided in two, East and West; Rome being the seat of the Western Roman Empire and Constantinople being the seat of the Eastern Roman Empire. Then in the latter end of that Kingdom it would be destroyed from within (i.e. the ten toes being part of clay and part of iron) symbolizing division. That during that time the God of heaven would set up a Kingdom that would have no end. (i.e. Jesus Christ and His Kingdom). Now add to these facts that geologists still use the bible to locate ancient cities. Why because it is that accurate." there are some good points here however, I bet its not all that hard to paraphrase bible quotes as if they are knowledge science discovers later. the bible claims to be the inspired word of god, and obviously it wasn't written by a higher being, we have no idea where the people who wrote the bible got thier information from. not only that, but there have been plenty of errors in the bible that contradict today's science as well, probably more than any that confirms it. "Over and over again the bible reveals scientific details about the world around us making laughing stocks out of scientist that persist in questioning its authority. You would have to be a total ignoramus to not believe the bible." and the quoran also claims to make several scientific confirmations in the world, so which is true the bible or the quoran, why believe in one over the other. secondly you seem to focused on trying to argue the bible to be true but claiming quotes out of the bible are supposed to mean such and such do not make it true, the bible is not used as a textbook for every science and for good reason to, wether or not the bible was right about any of those things it doesn't really have much scientific back up. "Over and over again the bible reveals scientific details about the world around us making laughing stocks out of scientist that persist in questioning its authority. You would have to be a total ignoramus to not believe the bible." "And the bible is the only source that provides a reason for our being here, a valid explanation for how the first particle of matter came into existence. The bible accurately predicts that our current solar system exists in a closed system that is cosmological lingo for it having a definite beginning and a definite end. The strange thing about a closed system is that science proves that for a closed system to begin there must be an initiating force. Like a toy car you have to wind it up first then let it go. It wanders across the kitchen floor until it runs out of steam and then you have to wind it again. That is the definition of a closed system. So how is it that they can emphatically declare our solar system a closed system meaning they know it is winding down and coming to an inevitable end at some point in the future, but they willfully ignore the fact that to be such a system there had to be someone there at the beginning to wind it up and let it go." when our solar system was created it needed to be created with its energy, (as a wind-up toy needs energy to keep going, our solar system needs energy for multiple things) our sun gains its energy through gases in space that came together and formed a sun. the planets were formed by matter in space, and gravity is holding it all together. "So I feel like I am standing on some pretty firm footing knowing how the first particle of matter came into existence and what's going to happen from here. But the evolutionist has no answer for where that first particle of matter came from." no we don't but the reality is there isn't an answer to everything, and just because we don't have an answer doesn't prove its god. "They expect you to believe it just miraculously came into existence on blind faith. What? Did I say faith? Did I say miracle? I thought those two things were anathema to the atheistic religion." no, in fact that goes against science, there are things we do not know, and things we do know. scientists do not claim it just came into existence, but we don't know where all the matter comes from and just because we don't know doesn't mean its god. we don't claim to have all the answers. also atheism isn't a religion, and evolution isn't necessarily atheistic although it can be, atheism is a lack of belief in god, evolution has nothing to do with god really. "Oh yes atheist are people of faith alright they believe they are right regardless of the evidence to the contrary." if you had evidence of god, you would be famous and go down in history of mankind, there is no real evidence of god, and atheism is a lack of belief, which is justified by a lack of reason, (since lacking convincement means not being convinced of it which means you don't have a reason to be convinced) and without evidence there is no reason to believe it. "They blindly accept the fact that they have no plausible solution to how or where the matter in the universe came from. " no to blindly accept this would mean to accept we don't know where we came from blindly, but there isn't a reason to think we have an answer to that question and nobody does and we probably won't for centuries to come. "Evolution is a hoax propagated by secular progressives in an effort to silence people of faith, so they can prosper in their efforts to create an immoral utopia devoid of any absolute truth or moral authority." conspiracy much? so evolution is backed up by a mountain of evidence, there are tons of christian evolutionists, and evolution was not created to silence faith, prove to me that it was developed to silence people of faith. You also claim that we are to build a completely immoral society... why do you believe that we created a scientific theory (let alone has nothing to do with god directly) to silence people of faith? why do you think that we have some sort of agenda to create a society as immoral as we could? if you were speaking to a psychologist they would probably tell you, you were being paranoid. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
I think God created us because He created Adam and Eve So you are basically saying "I think God created us because God created us." Circular reasoning. Your conclusion has no support. Also we were born from our mothers womb. Ummm, this is not evidence against evolution Side: No there isn't we evolved.
No what I meant to say is that God created Adam and Eve and then He let them populate by reproducing and having kids and stuff for many generations until today's standard. No we haven't evolved. Evolution if for people who are fools it proves nothing and all it is a lie. Side: Yes there is a God.
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"where did everything come from?" we cannot answer that, we are all only human and obviously wouldn't have an answer to such a big question. however just because there is no scientific answer at this time right now (in other words an answer that has proven itself true or at least probable) does not mean we should "fill the gaps with god" as they say. If something is unknown, it is unknown and you have the right to believe god is the answer but i am perfectly justified to point out any logical errors I see, and we have no reason to believe the answer is god, why not accept that the answer as of right now is simply unknown instead of using any possible explanation that could fit? "out of nothing?" science never really claims that, if you are talking about the big bang, the big bang essentially is talking about everything being all at one point at one time, it wasn't an explosion that created something out of nothing, but simply an expansion of everything from one point to a large radius. " the big bang? ok, what made it explode?" there are tons of evidence for the big bang, first of all the mapping of our stars shows that we are all coming from one point or origin, secondly the universe has been seen expanding, is expanding, and its expansion is accelerating. what made it explode you ask? nobody knows, we have enough evidence to make the big bang a very probable theory but what caused the big bang has baffled minds of philosophers and scientists alike, however you could argue this is where god fits in, that's just the same old "god gap" argument. "answer me that, then maybe i'll believe you." you seem to be making an argument against science, what you don't understand is science is really just an academic discipline to further knowledge, the scientific method is where we observe something, speculate (within reason as well as you can), test and experiment to figure out what, why, how, or etc... science will never have the answer to anything because science is just a process and and discipline that helps us learn. science is a tool, not a book of claims, or a scripture but the skill of figuring and determining. science does not at all require belief, in fact science for the most part forces us to filter belief from knowledge. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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OK yes you sound smart but i can always say what made that? over and over again till you have no idea what to say. if you believe we come from matter or a big bang kinda the same thing, that means you don't believe in love its just chemical reactions... and OK i guess there are ways to prove that love is chemical reactions ill give you that but,,,,, how can something come from nothing or matter come to exist? matter is your Creator and God is mine i rather go with God over matter. its just more logical/// have you ever seen the movie expelled by Ben stein ?? its a great movie you should watch it, it might change your view or make you thing harder about theory's in evolution Side: Yes there is a God.
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Okay you "God believer", answer an evolutionist this if you think you're so smart: Where did diamonds and the fossil record come from? Did your god snap his fingers and millions of years worth of work happened in "4,000 years". I don't believe a word of the bible. Back yourself up. And who said that the Big Bang was the only theory out? The Big Bang is a very famous theory, that doesn't mean it is the only one. Look stuff up before you point your finger. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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No one said anything about diamonds, diamonds are rocks, not life. and no one said anything about it only taking 4000 years. With the science theories, none of them can explain far enough back to make sense. I for one, enjoy reading things that science has come up with. and i love trying to figure out things like black holes or how the human brain works, but it can only explain so much, just the surface. Do you think, on it's own, out of no where life came? how did we develop such a complex system with only nature? why do we have an organ or part of the brain that combats specific things? you think it was all trial and error? yes we've been here a while, but the odds are so small and specific, and there are so many to calculate, that, i highly doubt it. Side: Yes there is a God.
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This can't all have just happened. There IS design. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Side: Yes there is a God.
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Just because there is a Bible doesn't mean we have a God. It was told by word of mouth for thousands of years. They just wrote it down recently. God is to explain the unexplainable. Evolution makes perfect sense. Darwinism, survival of the fittest comes into play. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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Both, to me, Are theories , but Evolution it is.. I find it quite hard and downright insane to compare a theory that has been backed with thousands of scientific proofs to the God theory that has no scientific proof, I'm sorry, no, not even one... Charles Darwin, Alfred Russel Wallace, Gregor Mendel, and Theodosius Dobzhansky (the father of the new understanding of evolution as the cumulative action of natural selection on small genetic variations in whole populations.) "Part of the proof of evolution is in the fossil record, which shows a succession of gradually changing forms leading up to those known today. Structural similarities and similarities in embryonic development among living forms also point to common ancestry. Molecular biology (especially the study of genes and proteins) provides the most detailed evidence of evolutionary change." The theory of evolution is accepted by nearly the entire scientific community. Still, it's only fought by religious people.. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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well the funny thing about this debate is the two aren't substitutes for each other, yes evolution is not that compatible with the concept of god, but a lot of things about our world isn't. Evolution is backed up by many facts, and empirical evidence that has been around for a long time, god on the other hand is a superstition sociably accepted as something more than it is in society. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
The premise of the debate is poor. Evolution is not inherently atheist. Evolution does not say one word about God. In fact, no theory in naturalistic science can say anything confirming or denying the existence of God since he is clearly supernatural, and apparently wishes to remain unfalsifiable, which happen to be two things that the scientific method is not capable of working with. The closest thing that we can infer about God from evolution is: if he does happen to exist, this is how he created the variety of life forms on Earth. That's it. Of course, evolution does seem to contradict the Bible. But it isn't contradicting the "God created life part" (since an omnipotent being could obviously use evolution if he/she/it wished), but rather the "God created all beings simultaneously and distinctly" part. But that is only a problem is you take the Old Testament literally. And if you take the OT literally, then you have thousands of problems to rationalize away concerning Noah's Highly Impossible Ark, so it is safe to say you are no position to argue a scientific theory in the first place. So it is a false dichotomy. But, since I don't believe in God, and since the Theory of Evolution is simply a proposed model for the Fact of Evolution (that being that biological evolution is the variance of allele frequencies among and between populations over time, which very definitely does occur) that is supported by more pieces of evidence than a person could learn about in a life time, I vote evolution. EDIT: Oh yeah, one very important thing that I stupidly forgot. Evolution is not about the origin of life anyway. It is about diversity of life. Evolution couldn't happen without life in the frist place, so another reason why this whole premise is flawed. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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I'll support this, since you are basically correct. However, we actually have numerous pretty good models of how it could have happened. We just don't know which, if any, are correct, partially because we don't know the exact environment in which said constructs could have formed. So far there is very strong evidence that undersea volcanoes could provide everything needed for a good, hardy, protobiont. After that, natural selection takes over until modern day cool things. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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I understand you. But I said what I said because what causes the proteins themselves to become life? That's the real question. Why do they bond and become life? Why do they not just float around in the undersea muck and never bond into something that moves? Into something that lives? I don't believe in a deity, but the idea some deity is responsible for life bonding together isn't utterly preposterous. No more preposterous then alternate dimensions, which are now actually being accepted in physics. Especially since the History Channel might end up supporting that 'deity' being an ancient alien... damn it. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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In my opinion, there is no God. The bible was passed down by word of mouth for thousands of years, and only recently has it been published for the public. For all you God believers out there, go argue with Richard Dawkins and tell me what he says. Side: No there isn't we evolved.
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