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Well, yes, because doesn't it teach us that it is important to work hard towards a goal? I mean, if we practice hard enough at something it will give us a great understanding of it, but a competition will reinforce this understanding and allow it to be applied better in a pressured situation. Competitions get us all fired up and allow us to feel nerves and pressure, which then forces us to work even harder to overcome the competitive challenges that lay ahead. So, in short, Competitions allow us to apply what we have learned in a harder, and therefore more beneficial way.
When you're in competition, you're applying acquired knowledge to try and outperform others, you're not learning nada!
Think about the process of learning how to ride a bike: Do you learn how to ride a bike by getting a bunch of friends together (they also don't know how to ride one), each with a bike and then declare a bike race? No you don't! Doing that will make you all a great circus act, but it'll give you more bruises than bike riding ability. How do you most likely learn to ride a bike? With somebody helping you of course, like your ma or pa for example.
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These are your exact words "So, in short, Competitions allow us to apply what we have learned in a harder, and therefore more beneficial way."
That's right, "what we have learned...", as in already learned, past tense.
I never claimed that we go to competitions just for the sake of learning, I have argued that it reinforces what we have learned. Sure, we might learn a trick or two here and there, but it still allows us to try out what we have learned. This way, we get an understanding of what works and what doesn't, and proceed accordingly. We learn about what works and what doesn't. Get it?
If you don't understand my point now, you probably never will, so go cry out your opinions in another debate because they aren't convincing me here. If you are so keen on putting me in my place, then give me a challenging argument, something that you actually believe in; stop presenting crap and actually say something worthwhile.
I never claimed that we go to competitions just for the sake of learning, I have argued that it reinforces what we have learned
So it reinforces what you have learned, as in past tense? After learning? Not in the process of learning? So you'd learn something first, and then go to a competition to reinforce the knowledge? Are you arguing for my side? You are, aren't you? You're playing with me, aren't you?
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And stop hurting me with your insults. I'm really hurt. I'm gonna go and cry now... Thanks a lot...
Again, you don't get my point, and you probably never will, so go cry in another debate.
If I must restate things over and over... I would understand should people loathe you in life.
Competition adds learning; we see what people do and apply it ourselves. We also apply our own methods and determine whether or not they work, and proceed accordingly. This is learning, but not to the extent of education.
People should know what they are doing before they apply it in competition.
Competition contributes education, but is mostly there to support it.
I am not arguing for your side; your side is wrong, whether you believe it or not. If this is just another one of those "personal challenges" where you argue for the side you are personally against, then I certainly don't understand. Challenging yourself? Leading up to what exactly? You still haven't even told me your age, and choose to have fun at the expense of mine. However, that is irrelevant, and I would suggest that we drop the personal insults and debate the facts like gentleman.
Ok, no more chitchats, cos chitchatting with you is quite frustrating...
Now, let's have a look at very simple example ok? Don't mess this up now:
Let's have a look at: Bike riding
So we have the following elements:
Process of learning: how to ride a bike.
Competition:a bike race with 20,000-dollar prize money.
Cooperation:the help of someone who already knows how to ride a bike.
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Now, you're arguing that competition is beneficial to the learning process.
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I'm arguing that competition is not beneficial to the learning process. Still with me? Ok, good...
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Now, let's apply competition to the learning process and put people who wish to learn how to ride a bike into a bike race. Let's give them about half a day to race each other. What do you think's gonna happen? My guess is they'll try to push along with their legs because they can't yet balance without them, and in the heat of competition they'll probably fall over lotsa times and hurt themselves because they'll be going too fast to control their motion. At the end of the given time, they won't have learnt how to ride a bike.
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Now, let's apply cooperation to the learning process and pair people who wish to learn how to ride a bike up with someone who could already ride and will help them learn by instructing, encouraging, feedback, answer questions, holding the bike while it's in motion to help them balance, etc. Give them the same half a day to learn. What dya think'll happen this time? My feelings are that they'll do a hell of a lot better than the other group.
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You still haven't even told me your age, and choose to have fun at the expense of mine
Let's just say that I'm an adult and my age is of no concern to you. I wish to be judged by the strength (or lack thereof) of my words alone. If you hadn't told me your age, I'd still have made fun of you if you can't put a sentence together with correct grammar and a clear point. For proof, have a look at my other debates involving aveskde, although I didn't actually make fun of that individual for his inability to write, I made fun of his inability to come up with new arguments.
Okay, so you pull out a bike riding competition, one example, when there are billions of possibilities, the high majority of which would support competition as a benefit towards the learning process.
How's this then: the competition is held on a rocky terrain. Sure, cooperation helps, when you're firstly learning how to handle yourself on this terrain (primary education), but if you are racing, in say, a 30 minute race, you need to know how to handle your bike on your own. When you are racing, you need to be aware of your surroundings, keep in mind the state of the surface upon which you are riding, as well as the personal hydration level and body balance of yourself. This would be barely different for a half-day race. You still need to take note of your surroundings, and you still need to maintain notice of your personal level of health. Put this together with a purpose, something that doesn't really comply with your example of cooperation, and you have a goal that you strive for, which can make the overall difference that cooperation cannot level up to alone.
Note that I don't suggest that cooperation is unnecessary, but it shouldn't be a supplement for competition.
Ok, time for a new argument, I wouldn't want to "bore" you would I?
People want challenge, something that they can strive for, as I mentioned in the bike riding example. Challenges are important to the learning process because it sets a level of difficulty for a person to overcome. Whether this be applying strict rules or tough opponents, challenges generally make people work harder. Now, strict rules, tough opponents, these are both applicants of competition, such as the bike riding competition you mentioned (as did I). The fault with your argument involving cooperation is that it only applies to people who don't know how to ride a bike, or at least not properly, correct me if I am wrong. Competition benefits people who are looking for a challenge, improvement or study, which in fact does benefit the learning process (this is the part that you seem to be avoiding, intentionally or not).
As for the whole age drama, it concerns me that you make clear reference to mine and yet you will not level the playing field. I call that cowardice, and until then, 'old man' should suit you nicely.
Everything else that followed was unclear strings of words, strung together with a complete disregard for sense or purpose... sigh... You've completely missed the topic title yet again.
If people are more competitive, then they will work harder to be the best. If all people are more competitive, then they will excel (my personal beliefs). I feel it beneficial because, I work harder when I'm put under pressure. Even if it's just a competition between friends, it makes me work harder. When we get into the real world we will have to compete with a lot more people...that's capitalism.
If people are more competitive, then they will work harder to be the best.
I think that this condition is rebutted somewhat by reality. The caveat: "some" should be included. That is, "some people" will work harder to be the best (whatever that means). But this actually doesn't really answer the question. Remember, it's not about being the best. It's about whether or not someone has a working understanding of some group of information, and can recall it laterally and substantively. Is competition good for the process that leads to that understanding and why? I actually don't think it is.
If the learning process is defined as: "the process in which one notices new information and retains it for later application", then what you said about competition putting you under pressure means it's detrimental to the learning process. Your brain retains information better when it's not under stress, apparently.
It is only beneficial to the top students. In my class I compete with my friends a lot, we are all smart students but we keep our compititions private. The other students could begin to think they are not as good and therefor do not try as hard as they could.
So, you're defining the topic as classroom competition, correct? Or, at least you are focused on the one example.
Overall, competition supports the original education of a topic. If students aren't willing to participate, then why ridicule competition? That would be like blaming cute dolphins for murdering a man who slipped over and died while looking at them as he walked by. It sounds ridiculous doesn't it? By that I mean the example of the dolphin. But then again, doesn't that whole argument sound stupid as well?
"The other students could begin to think they are not as good and therefore do not try as hard as they could."
1. This isn't always the case.
2. This is where a teacher comes in, who should be paying attention to the productivity of students in competitive environments, and examining their scores. From there, they are able to speak with the student and help to further improve their productivity.
So, competition works when it is applied. If someone doesn't apply it, then it shouldn't be blamed.
It was beneficial to him, personally, but maybe not so much other people. When people lose competitions, they either try harder, which is good, or they think they are stupid and skip tomorrow's homework.
Nope, competition is destructive, on the other hand, cooperation is beneficial.
Competition pressure can drive people to cheating to obtain good results. So in the end, all they learn is how to cheat well. Competition can also make you defensive, your mind closed to the process of learning.
Cooperation does not have pressures to perform, in that environment, the brain is more relaxed and open to new facts.
So in summation, competition can make you want to start the learning process, but the learning process itself needs cooperation.
How so? I don't see a great deal of destruction lying around anywhere...
Actually... that depends on what you're defining "competition" as. Sports? Questionnaires? Game Shows? There are many different types of competition, to be sure. Sports, sure, naturally there are going to be a few foul plays and definitely a few injuries, but to define all sport competitions as "destructive" isn't realistic. As for competitive games such as board games, quizzes, and such, there is going to be a rare amount of destruction (with the exception of child tantrums, I've seen to many of them to doubt it).
"Competition pressure drive people to cheating to obtain good results."
Haven't you heard of hard, honest work? I don't know about you, but competitiveness isn't just an excuse to cheat, and even if it were for some people, that wouldn't be the same for the rest.
"So, in the end, all they learn is how to cheat well."
So, whilst a competition is going on, competitors are studying methods on how to cheat? How many would actually study how to cheat, let alone cheat in the first place?
"Cooperation does not have pressures to perform, in that environment..."
Therefore, it is evident that there is nothing to strive for, nothing to promote the act of hard work.
"...the brain is more relaxed and open to new facts."
Relaxation is only temporary, sooner or later the brain needs to start working harder in order to better understand new information. We could all "relax" and read that 1+1=2, but the brain's activity, whilst in a relaxed situation, is doing very little to effectively memorize new information. So, in a test, perhaps 1+1 doesn't = 3 after all...
"Competition may want you to start the learning process..."
Since when to people compete when they have little to no knowledge on what it is that they are doing? The start of the learning process is education; we need to educate ourselves before we attempt competitive reinforcement. If you feel that cooperation is so important, then it would work much more effectively with education, because we need to be able to know what we are doing before we do it. It's like riding a bike, you don't ride a bike until you know how to make it move.
Competition is beneficial to the learning process because it reinforces what we have been taught and teaches us how to apply what we know whilst under pressure.
Don't take this out of context. The context here is the learning process. Competition is destructive to the learning process. For sporting competitions and gameshows and whathaveyous, it's good :)
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Haven't you heard of hard, honest work?
I actually have heard of this concept, yes! I'm not talking about those honest souls out there. We're talking about the cheaters only ofcourse. A lot of us will learn and study the honest way (which is good for us), however some will cheat to get good grades, that's what competition does. If the competitiveness was taken out of the learning process, nobody would feel the need to get good grades, they'd only feel the need to expand their knowledge and minds and would most likely cooperate to do that (as opposed to compete to do it).
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With the rest of your arguments (as with the above ones), you are guilty of quotemining, nonsensicle interpretations & contradictory statements, all done with a belligerent teenage attitude (this last bit was added in for fun). I'm starting to know you a bit better now, and clarity of thoughts, my friend, is an ability you still need to work on (as do many others here on CreateDebate).
That's just it, they aren't all cheaters, and even those few amount of cheaters out there aren't relevant. If cheating is a problem, then blame the cheaters, don't call competition a bad addition to the learning process simply because 1 or 2 people out of 100 cheat.
"... nobody would feel the need to get good grades..."
The whole point of Grades is to show how students are either on Par with where they need to be (in schoolwork, etc), or if they are achieving below or above this par. Competition allows students (since we're obviously focusing on students in this discussion) to push themselves harder and allows them to work under pressure, as they most likely will in future jobs (or even daily routine).
"...they'd only feel the need to expand their knowledge and minds and would most likely cooperate to do that..."
According to who? You? Please... give me a challenge... most kids actually won't cooperate, I know because I see how kids perform in certain stages of the year when tests are not happening, and they are usually unfocused and more attentive to what is happening around themselves, and not what is happening at the front of the room where the teacher is lecturing on a particular subject. See, this debate is kind of personal, because I see and experience first hand how beneficial competition actually is, and how it in fact does benefit my learning process. You, being however old you are (which you rudely haven't mentioned), wouldn't fully understand competition without experiencing it, and if you are too old to remember, then that doesn't serve your case very well does it?
As for your last paragraph, which I have noted contains no related facts, is unrequited. If I needed a lecture I'd have called a teacher. Lecture someone else with improvements, I really couldn't care less about what you old-timers have to say to me. All I need to know is that I win competitions, and they improve me for the next one, which proves to myself that I am great in that particular area/field. If I win my debates, gain best speaker, and am noted to require no major improvements (as occurred in the previous debate; 'that Australia should adopt a National Internet Filter'), then I suppose I'm fine then.
No personal comments required, keep it relevant. I won't be replying to personal comments anymore, only reporting them should they get harsh.
This is because they haven't been motivated to cooperate. This is the responsibility of the teacher.
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about me being too old to remember competition
Wrong.
Life is a competition.
You compete with other candidates for a job in job interviews.
You compete for customers with other businesses if you run a business.
You compete for girlfriends and boyfriends, your parents' love, popularity, etc...
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Competition can be a good motivator, but other motivators would better serve the learning process. A school example would be instead of giving awards and prizes to top students for completing a task first, we should award groups of students for completing tasks (whether first or last, as long as they've completed tasks).
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When you're on CreateDebate, you're not at school, so you're debating people of all ages, they will also have a full range of knowledge and skills and personality and viewpoints. Much more interesting no? And guess what? Here, you don't get to win lame awards for beating other 15 year-olds at this game. And if people care to, they will also tell you that you can't debate properly, if that's the case,
and it is the case.
You're not debating with other 15 year-olds, so expect to sharpen your game or leave. If I was you, I'd learn and try to improve, if that is the reason you're here on this website.
Keep it relevant old man, you're not winning anyone over to your side by making note of my age.
Competition is a highly relevant part of life, however, competition isn't what life is all about.
This isn't a debate on what is more beneficial to the learning process, it asks if Competition does or doesn't add benefit to the learning process. You, rather than rebut my clear points, choose to once again ridicule how I say things rather than make comment on what I have said.
When we're here on CreateDebate, we aren't all looking for education. I use the site as practice, what do you use it for? A means of looking intelligent for once in your life? Probably...
However, that is irrelevant, you shouldn't care why I am here or if I should be here, you should be more concerned with what I say rather than how I say it. Until you learn to do this, you are no more than practice, and an annoyance to me.
Now, regarding motivation, that should happen before competition occurs, competition is the reinforcement of beginning education, and is probably one of the final aspects of education. You learn something, you apply it, that is my point, because competition allows you to use what you know under pressured circumstances. Take a basketball game for example; everyone needs to know how to play the game and abide by the rules before they can learn everything that they can apply. They need to know how to dribble a ball, and how to pass and shoot the ball, from there, they are able to branch off of this knowledge and develop personal styles of play and adapt greater moves and shots in order to perform better as individuals. They also need to be taught teamwork; teamwork is a big part of basketball, as there are 5 players on each team who are on the court at a time. When kids play basketball at school, that is a competition, however, it is not entirely as pressured in all circumstances. If any pressure were to be applied, it would be in the sense of popularity. However, I refer to basketball matches, not school play. If a player can perform well in a simple game at school, but cannot compete well against other basketball players in a match, then it is obvious that that player has not adapted any further education of the game beyond what he/she may have learned at school. So, already, there is the benefit of improvement, because now that this player has seen different styles of gameplay, he/she can apply it him/herself.
Life as a competition is mainly for attentive reasons, in regard to the ones that you mentioned. If you are a restaurant owner, and your business has been low in the past few days because a new restaurant next door is cooking better food, then obviously changes need to be made if you want your business to survive. So, what do you do? You'll probably end up looking at redecorating either the restaurant appeal or the food appeal, and then you may look at expanding the menu. Not only that, but if you want to be a popular restaurant, then you may need to figure out what is popular among people in regard to certain foods at the time. Again, you develop a better understanding of things in order to achieve.
One thing that competition teaches many competitors is respect, something you may want to take a note on. It is often taught by many competition holders to have respect for your opponents, which is a valued aspect of life. Okay, so some people may bring some "foul play" into competition, that isn't competition's fault! If it stresses respect, then how can it be blamed? Actually, some could be blamed, because some do not stress respect, and do little to promote it, but the same cannot be said for the majority of competitions out there. Then again, it is often also the fault of the individual, because some individuals, such as those who make use of "foul play," show no respect towards others, and therefore receive none. I wonder if that sounds familiar...
Okay, just a couple more small points:
Group awards are actually given out, they just are very small in comparison to individual awards. Individual awards can actually work just as well, if the teachers actually did some motivation towards each individual student, and not just one or two.
If we start blaming competition for problems that it doesn't openly cause, then we aren't doing any benefit for the competitors are we? It doesn't do a kid much if he can only read about martial arts and never test it in a safer and more rewarding environment (which is exactly what a competition is about 97% of the time). Even if a child loses, they might end up winning next time, and motivation is required by instructors in order to boost this possibility.
Competition is a highly relevant part of life, however, competition isn't what life is all about
I didn't say life is only about competition. Life can be many other things too. Amongst them, life is a competition.
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The debate topic is "is competition beneficial to the learning process?"
I'm arguing "no". You have trouble understanding my arguments?
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we aren't all looking for education. I use the site as practice, what do you use it for? A means of looking intelligent for once in your life? Probably...
Correct.
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you shouldn't care why I am here or if I should be here
I didn't care why you're here. You're the one keep saying you're doing this for school, etc...
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you should be more concerned with what I say rather than how I say it
And both what u say & how you say it are extremely poor.
regarding motivation, that... blah blah ...he/she can apply it him/herself (see your own post for the entire paragraph)
Ok, you've just basically argued for my side: You're saying that you have to learn before you compete in a real game. So learning comes first in a cooperative environment with your coach and friends. Once you've mastered the skills, you then apply it to competitions. Thanks for coming over to our side.
You have distinctively chosen to ignore the connections with all my arguments and instead choose to break my arguments down to small particles. This is the wrong approach to what I am saying and I am appalled at your lack of capability.
I have stated that competition does provide education, however, it is mostly there to support it (reinforce it). You don't master skills and then apply them in competition, because what if you enter competition and find out that those skills are wrong, or are useless or incapable? You learn as much as possible, prepare as much as possible, and then you proceed to competition where you reinforce your learning by discovering opposing techniques and studying how your techniques perform, and then decide whether or not they are suitable to be re-used.
Re-read that if you feel the need to, just don't repeat the same BS arguments that you have for the entire debate.
You have distinctively chosen to ignore the connections with all my arguments and instead choose to break my arguments down to small particles
People do this so they can rebut each point individually, it helps to clarify issues. And it's only wrong if you quotemine. You should do this in your school debates. It's never too late to learn!
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Your ignorance is pathetic because you're ignorant of the fact that you're ignorant. I've used the same argument to rebut all of your futile attempts at making a valid point, and it still stands! You're so stupid you don't know how close you are to actually making a valid point, instead you keep opening yourself up for more rebuttals.
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Here's my point again:
The learning process, as I define it, is the process of noticing and retaining new information for later application. With this in mind, the stress of competition does not help because the brain retains info better when it's not under stress.
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Now, read the debate title carefully, understand it and if you need to, define "learning process", then see if you can make a well formed argument in 1 or 2 sentences... I'm not holding my breathe though...
Life as a competition is mainly for attentive reasons, in regard to the ones that you mentioned. If you are a restaurant owner, and your business has been low in the past few days because a new restaurant next door is cooking better food, then obviously changes need to be made if you want your business to survive. So, what do you do? You'll probably end up looking at redecorating either the restaurant appeal or the food appeal, and then you may look at expanding the menu. Not only that, but if you want to be a popular restaurant, then you may need to figure out what is popular among people in regard to certain foods at the time. Again, you develop a better understanding of things in order to achieve
One thing that competition teaches many competitors is respect, something you may want to take a note on. It is often taught by many competition holders to have respect for your opponents, which is a valued aspect of life. Okay, so some people may bring some "foul play" into competition, that isn't competition's fault! If it stresses respect, then how can it be blamed? Actually, some could be blamed, because some do not stress respect, and do little to promote it, but the same cannot be said for the majority of competitions out there. Then again, it is often also the fault of the individual, because some individuals, such as those who make use of "foul play," show no respect towards others, and therefore receive none. I wonder if that sounds familiar...
Right, gottit! Now, how does this all help your side of the debate? Losing focus again, are we?
Group awards are actually given out, they just are very small in comparison to individual awards. Individual awards can actually work just as well, if the teachers actually did some motivation towards each individual student, and not just one or two
Right, so group awards are given out. Individual awards can work just as well if teachers directly motivate students... what point are you making towards the debate topic? Are you arguing for my side again?!...
If we start blaming competition for problems that it doesn't openly cause, then we aren't doing any benefit for the competitors are we?
What am I blaming competition for? I'm simply saying that it isn't beneficial to the process of learning and that cooperation is in fact what's beneficial to the learning process.
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It doesn't do a kid much if he can only read about martial arts and never test it in a safer and more rewarding environment (which is exactly what a competition is about 97% of the time).
Ok, now testing the skills of martial arts is best done in a cooperative environment with either your coach or friend in a friendly sparring session. This is not competition. Competition is when you go and enter a Martial Arts championship and take a trophy home if you win it... That's not a good environment for learning martial arts, if you don't know what you're doing, you're gonna get your ass kicked!!!
Learning is a continious process in life.We seek knowldge because our profet laid great emphasis for knoldge and has said that to find knowldge you visit china we should ackure knoldge not for competing others but we seek to become good human being become a good son mother.
Competition only affects toppers only but what about rest??. They get only discouragement , their self confidence goes down and began to think that can never do well
