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5
8
Valid Invalid
Debate Score:13
Arguments:14
Total Votes:13
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Del1176(4964) pic



Catholic justification for forbidding the use of barrier methods of contraception.

The Catholic Church forbids the use of barrier methods of contraception, such as condoms. Unlike other forms of contraception, barrier methods not only protect against unwanted pregnancy but also against sexually transmitted diseases, such as AIDS and HIV. In many African and South American countries, AIDS and HIV are huge problems but people continue to have sex without condoms in order to follow the teachings of the Catholic Church. In this debate, the proposition believe that the Catholic Church's position of forbidding barrier methods of contraception, such as condoms, is justified.

Edit it should be noted that this debate is partially out of date as there is no longer a complete ban: ‘There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute [in this connection, the Holy See Press Secretary specifically stated that the Pope was not singling out “male” prostitutes; the same argument, he said, is valid also for female prostitutes] uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants. But it is not really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality’ (Benedict XVI, 2010)

Valid

Side Score: 5
VS.

Invalid

Side Score: 8
1 point

Whenever a Church makes a radical change to its doctrines and teachings it causes a huge amount of tension within the Church. An excellent example of this is the Church of England allowing women to become bishops; a huge number of people left the Church over the controversy.

Since the Catholic Church's ban over contraception of all kinds is something that it has stood fast over for a great number of years, as well as something that sets it apart from most other denominations and faiths, the proposition believes that a change in this would result in a huge amount of tension within the Church. This tension would inevitably bring about a considerable risk of large parts of the Church collapsing altogether. This would be much the same as the tensions over gay priests in the Anglican church that have led to fears of a schism1.

Therefore, in the interests of its own stability, the sensible course of action for the Catholic Church to take is to maintain its ban on contraception.

1 Brown, Andrew. "Jeffrey John and the global Anglican schism: a potted history." Guardian.co.uk, 8 July 2010

Side: Valid
Del1176(4964) Disputed
1 point

The Catholic Church already has huge numbers of people leaving, this could help stop that. The Catholic Church is already becoming increasingly unpopular because of its refusal to compromise on any issue and its inability to adapt and change to keep up with an ever changing world. Rather than damage the stability of the Church, allowing barrier contraception would show that the Church is capable of change when change is necessary.

Importantly, when the Church of England allowed women to become bishops, it caused some tension at the time but had no long term negative impact on the stability of the Church.

Side: Invalid
1 point

Condoning the use of barrier methods of contraception would be implicitly condoning casual sex since their primary function is within that context. This is particularly important since the Catholic Church's teachings on casual sex are not taken particularly seriously already.

Any action, such as the Catholic Church allowing the use of barrier contraception, that would promote casual sex in countries with severe AIDS/HIV problems, would be an incredibly irresponsible one. Pope Paul VI argued that when considering "the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards." The Church's current stance on barrier contraception, therefore, is the most responsible one1.

1 Pope Paul VI. "Humanae Vitae." 1968.

Side: Valid
Del1176(4964) Disputed
1 point

More casual sex with barrier contraception is preferable to the current amount without contraception. The amount of consensual sex is not going to change no matter what the church teaches. As long as the use of barrier contraception was promoted along with this promotion of casual sex, it would be a huge net reduction in the cases of contraction of HIV.

Therefore, condoning the use of barrier contraception would be the more responsible stand to take on the part of the Catholic Church.

Side: Invalid
1 point

The Catholic Church does not only forbid the use of barrier contraception but also of casual sex. The issue is not that the Church is being irresponsible by banning the use of barrier contraception but that people are choosing to follow some of the Church's teachings but not others. Pope Benedict XVI argues AIDS is "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems"1.

If people followed the Church's teachings on casual sex as well as their teachings on barrier contraception, the AIDS epidemic would be dramatically decreased. Given, therefore, that it also forbids any sex outside of marriage, the Catholic Church is totally justified in forbidding barrier methods of contraception2.

1 Wynne-Jones, Jonathan. "The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms in historic shift." The Telegraph, 20 November 2010

2 Pope John Paul II. "Evangelium Vitae." 1995.

Side: Valid
Del1176(4964) Disputed
1 point

AIDS/HIV can be spread outside of having casual sex. The HIV epidemic is spread not just through people having casual sex. In many cases, wives contract HIV after their husband being unfaithful or having had premarital sex.

There are also many cases where a woman has little choice in being sold off to a man and is forced to have sex with him. There are also a huge number of cases of rape where HIV is contracted.

In all of these cases, if the Catholic Church had condoned barrier contraception, the likelihood of HIV being contracted as a result would have been dramatically reduced; whether that is through contraception being used in that particular instance of intercourse or through the man not contracting HIV in the first place.

Side: Invalid
1 point

People in Africa don't use condoms because they can't afford them. The assertion that its to stay within the Catholic teachings is ridiculous because most people in Africa are Muslim an Christianity is spread among the different denominations.

Side: Valid
Del1176(4964) Clarified
1 point

You posted on wrong side.

Side: Valid
iamdavidh(4856) Disputed
1 point

You are incorrect. A huge part charitable efforts have been birth control because cost/resources, better birth control is more cost effective than even food.

However the Catholic church actively opposed this, even to the point of threatening to withhold charities, which is their right, should non-denominational birth control related charities be accepted in various areas. So of course the need for food now outweighs the long term need for birth control despite that route being more helpful long term.

I begrudgingly commend the Catholic church, at long long last, seeing the error of their ways in this instance, but it is endemic of their general attitude of

vast human suffering < vague ideological theories when it comes to sex

As for more Muslims in Africa, there were no Muslim charities actively opposing birth control to my knowledge, and certainly none with the power of the Catholic church.

Besides the United States itself, and maybe China, the Catholic church is the single most powerful entity in the world, and they were allowing mass unnecessary suffering, in this regard.

You could make an argument "it's there money" but is it?

Donations to the Catholic church are made under the guise that they are to improve the lot of fellow humans first and foremost, it is resources entrusted to them for this purpose, not earned.

Side: Invalid
1 point

In spite of the Catholic Church's ruling, a huge number of people who identify as Catholic do not adhere to the Church's teachings on contraception. Additionally, many Catholic priests and nuns openly support non-abortive forms of contraception, including barrier contraception. In 2003 a poll found 43% of catholic priests in England and wales were against the church's stance and a further 19% were unsure1. The Church should listen to the requests and opinions of those who are part of it.

1 Day, Elizabeth. "Most Catholic priests 'do not support Rome over contraception'." The Telegraph, 6 April 2003

Side: Invalid
Del1176(4964) Disputed
1 point

The Catholic Church is not a democracy. The opposition makes no mention of the huge numbers of Catholics who actually support the Church's decision to forbid barrier contraception. There is by no means a clear majority either way.

Even if there was a clear majority of Catholics in favour of barrier contraception, the Church is under no obligation to change its official stances or any part of the way it works based on the opinions of members of the Church. The Church is founded on the basis that it is doing God's bidding and changing its working based on the demand of the people would undermine that.

Side: Valid
1 point

It has always been ridiculous, and is frankly a misinterpretation of anything I can find in the Bible, and from my experience I seem to know more about the book than most Catholics.

It very clearly says that in terms of evil, jerking off is more evil than having sex with a prostitute (even if married perhaps when looked at in context) and pulling out.

If one is to take this silly piece of fiction seriously,

A serious question would be "why even insert this verse"

And the answer, to one serious, would be there is some importance to this odd god in conveying some sort of hierarchy of "evils" concerning sex.

Any serious person would take this and other verses to mean that some sort of barrier to pregnancy should even be encouraged if the alternative is impregnation outside of marriage/concubines/slaves in your harem...

By the logic set out in the Bible the Catholic church should be encouraging condom use, perhaps each with a note on the label about how these men should really work on marrying the women they rape and building some sort of harem of subservient women.

It is as silly and harmful as the vast majority of the rest of it.

Side: Invalid
1 point

I'd rather my kid used a condom and fucked a hoe than got her preggerz.

Side: Invalid

_

Catholics & Muslims do nothing but pretend and teach a man-made LIE ..

The bible further continues to command for seX to be even enjoyed

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe;

let her breasts satisfy thee at all times, and be thou ravished always with her love.

The original Hebrew word for thy fountain means in Hebrew 4726 מקור

major flowing; also of tears, blood semen fountain, issue,

The original Hebrew word for RAVISHED Hebrew 7686 שׁגה shâgâh Shaw-gaw' intoxication) to reel, be enraptured:

Enjoy seX, use seX , for pleasure, enjoy your Wifes Breasts,

Be intoxicated reeling and TAKEN be enraptured: with having seX. And enjoying

having seX ............JUST for the sake of enjoying and having pleasure....alone

and being comforted BY your WIFES.

Pro 5:19 Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe;

let her breasts satisfy thee at all times, and be thou ravished always with her love.

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: congratulated

and rejoice with the wife of thy youth

The Bible is clear, Christians are to have all the seX they want in marriage for enjoyment, pleasures and delight and fun. Roman Catholics project their perversity onto the Bible and make up fake unbiblical laws that pervert Gods plan and His word.

The condoning the use of barrier methods of contraception would be fully condoning casual sex which is the very CORE and eXistence and an intrinsic part of Gods marriage plan.

Casual seX is eXactly what God advises His people to have.

The Catholic Church and Islam - not allowing the use of barrier contraception for married people is the major problem that has destroyed entire CATHOLISLAMIC COMMUNITIES around the world. Not only does Islam and The Pope ban and prohibit and OUTLAW birth control - - they also outlaw condoms and this has caused a worldwide epidemic and disaster of Millions upon Millions of infected people in Catholic Communities.

The only difference between the Catholic and Muslim communities is that the Roman Catholic communities are filled with homoseXuals and the Aids epidemic is on a massive scale. However, in Islam where homoseXuals are banned and not allowed, the Aids problem does not eXist like it does in the Catholic world.

The artificial world of the Pope completely defines who and eXactly what He is. FAKE.

The Pope hides the fact that the Roman Catholic world is completely immoral, very perverted and the Catholic world is a world of misbegotten children.

Most of the Catholic Mothers and Fathers have moved on to 4 to 8 new seXual partners while the Pope sits back and demands a high taX for them all to get a divorce.

This is eXactly how Catholicism works- It is a total failure, fraud and a destroyer of the working class. People are screwing like Roman Catholic rabbits on meth ad crystal and the pope tells them that If they use a condom, then they are beginning to sin.

Roman Catholics and liberals and atheist pretend that a priest or religious homoseXual man who hides His homosexuality to keep His religious status and job is somehow deserving a special right that deserves Him His privacy about the fact that HE is a homosexual who is attracted to little boys - Which all makes it a Non-homosexual act because the gay priest denies that He is gay. Roman Catholics have role played this fantasy for decades and it has led to thousands of little boys being raped and molested.

Catholics literally live a lie. Lies are their love and god and it destroys the family, the working class and the child - while sustaining the ruling upper-class of an overall perverse and wicked FAKE DECEPTIVE total society.

Side: Invalid