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Debate Info

68
85
I have a right to healthcare Healthcare is a privilege.
Debate Score:153
Arguments:151
Total Votes:159
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Argument Ratio

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 I have a right to healthcare (56)
 
 Healthcare is a privilege. (66)

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daver(1772) pic



Healthcare - Right Or Privilege

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/15/health-debate-wisdom-from-miss-usa-commentary.html
Miss USA says healthcare is a privilege, to be earned, rather than a right the government should insure.
She is, of course absolutely correct. 

I have a right to healthcare

Side Score: 68
VS.

Healthcare is a privilege.

Side Score: 85
5 points

To even being having the discussion about healthcare as a right or privilege shows how very disturbed we have become as Americans. Who gave one person alive the right to say that in order to live healthy like everyone else you need to pay a health insurance premium? Again!! That's right, again because out of our taxes is a medicare tax, a health care tax, and from our overall federal and state tax obligation, how much of that money goes to paying for healthcare emergency room visits and non insured healthcare costs? Then our country, the only western world country, asks us to buy insurance so we can stay healthy. How perverse and perverted to maintain a system like this, to enrich executives who have the power of life and death over our general population. This is bullshit and Bernie Sanders is so correct when he says it is time for a Medicare for All system from the richest country on the planet.

Side: I have a right to healthcare
LichPotato(362) Disputed
1 point

So, you're telling me that you have a right to have the government confiscate money from everyone (including you) so they can provide you with whatever "care" they choose, while both removing your choice from the matter and hiding how much you're paying for it.

With a government that's shown itself to be both financially and organizationally irresponsible, what could possibly go wrong?

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
3 points

I think healthcare should be a right . Many years ago during a recession over here I had totally free healthcare as I was unemployed I didn't need to avail of the system but was glad it was there .

You can pay over here through your salary for various health coverage plans which gets more expensive by the year ; to pay into a plan is optional those who don't through unemployment etc,etc use government services and are covered by the tax payer .

Side: I have a right to healthcare
DBCooper(2194) Disputed
3 points

Who pays for totally free healthcare yes you did yes contradict yourself didn't you. Covered by the taxpayer so it is not free.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
Dermot(3644) Disputed
1 point

No , I never contradicted myself that's just the weird workings of your fevered brain

Side: I have a right to healthcare
daver(1772) Clarified
3 points

You can pay over here through your salary for various health coverage plans which gets more expensive by the year ; to pay into a plan is optional those who don't through unemployment etc,etc use government services and are covered by the tax payer .

This rather charitable notion seems reasonable only when you eliminate those who choose to "Game The System". Millions of people choose to have the government support their needs, rather than support themselves.

Side: I have a right to healthcare
Dermot(3644) Clarified
1 point

That's the usual complaint by people who disagree with the welfare system ; so if that's the case what do you suggest ?

Maybe tell people in areas where there is little or no employment just get a job anyway ?

Side: I have a right to healthcare
Amarel(2384) Clarified
1 point

What do you think a "right" is? Do you think there are different kinds of rights ?

Side: I have a right to healthcare
Dermot(3644) Clarified
2 points

A right would be deemed morally correct , just and honourable ; yes there are different types of rights as in natural human rights which are confirmed and protected by countries Constitutions .

Not every fundamental right that you possess is set out in the Constitution - you have many personal rights that are not specifically stated in the Constitution. These rights may be derived or implied from the Constitution. For example, the Constitution does not specifically state a right to privacy but the courts recognise that the personal rights in the constitution imply the right to privacy.

Side: I have a right to healthcare
Amarel(2384) Disputed
1 point

I've not thought about rights that belong to everyone

As promised I have bookmarked this for later.

Rights are a moral concept that provide a basis for what individuals should respect in other individuals (their rights), and what the government must respect in it's people. All Rights are derived from or in support of the right to ones life, which everyone has unless or until they forfeit it.

Rights do not require any positive action on the part of anyone else. If they did, then you could morally demand that others do things for you (such as provide you with healthcare, or pick your cotton).

Special benefits provided for you by your government, such as welfare, healthcare, or free parking for the handicapped are all privileges. As are certain benefits of public office, such as the governors mansion.

Recap: Rights belong to all full citizens and require nothing from anyone else. Privileges are special benefits or perks, and often require funding from someone else.

Healthcare cannot be a right as it must be funded by someone else. Labeling things Rights that are actually privileges, resulted from socialistic philosophies that have appropriated the language of enlightenment philosophies and is the cause of much confusion in common political discourse.

Any clarifying questions?

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
Dermot(3644) Disputed
1 point

It's is not just I labelling what you call special priviliges rights but the entire European union and its code regarding basic fundamental human rights , healthcare is indeed a right for me and others as are many other what you deem privileges .

I don't know what you have against socialistic philosophies if progressive measures like universal healthcare are the results of its labours and long may it continue .

No clarifying questions , I will continue to avail of the fundamental human rights so many Americans are denied , putting Americans in a rather embarrassing group of countries with regressive policies regarding basic human rights

Side: I have a right to healthcare
3 points

Healthcare should be one of the most fundamental rights a person has. It is not like a car or house. It is, in some situations, the right to live. It is like saying should a person be left to die because they do not have enoughf money.

Side: I have a right to healthcare
2 points

Hello d:

Of course, it's a right..................................

excon

Side: I have a right to healthcare
2 points

Hello excon , I think we are in the minority on this one and that's the way I like it

Side: I have a right to healthcare
2 points

Well, It's apparently a "right" in Australia where Trump ADMITS they have "better health care than ours"! (The "socialistic kind")! As do, last I knew, 36 other countries not as "rich" as we are. WE, have to take care of our "needy" ... the 1% that is supposed to be taking care of America .... not China. THEY get the best health care, along with our Washington "care people"! Screw the amputees, the sick, the infirm, the unemployed because the 1% sold their jobs for profit and locked it up overseas because they didn't want to share it! (I know that was a long sentence, on purpose)!

I'm too old to move to Australia, but, if I'd seen Trump coming, and a conservative America, I likely WOULD have moved to a place where they STILL have "rights".

Side: I have a right to healthcare
1 point

To live you need good health. To have good health you, most likely, will need healthcare. I believe everyone has a right to life, and if you are religious you should see that God would want his children to live as you would believe that he gave the gift of life and that we humans should protect everyone's gift and right to life.

Side: I have a right to healthcare

Of course it's a right. How can anyone claim to live in a civilised country when they are not even given something as basic as good, professional healthcare?

The right constantly attempt to justify their amorality on this issue. It shouldn't be considered a grey area with equally ethical choices; it should be considered something that all humans, rich or poor, should be given a right to.

Side: I have a right to healthcare
3 points

All privileges have to be earned.

The argument here is whether life's losers have a right to access other people's hard earned dosh to meet the cost of whatever illness they be be suffering.

Life's prudent, high earning achievers will make provision for all contingencies including sickness and old age.

If Healthcare is a ''right'' then such a right must apply to all the world's population. Why would it not? The question wasn't qualified by listing any exclusions.

Who's going to pay for the health care and treatment of the sick and infirm of Africa's failed nations where millions of starving and diseased people die ''EVERY DAY'' from malnutrition and a range of diseases?

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
primoadvisor(5) Disputed
1 point

How this question brings out the extreme lack of education and knowledge of people talking here is astounding. Don't you fools see that even having this conversation here in the conversational way precludes the fact that the world pays for healthcare for its people in every country except here. So to even be having this conversation as a right or privilege shows the arrogance of our privileged thinking. Look in the damn mirror at yourself, why are you better than anyone, rich or poor? Here's the headline; You're not!

Side: I have a right to healthcare
3 points

Most countries have horrible healthcare and waiting lists a mile long. We also have 350 million people to cover rather than 10 million. And if our medical goes socialist, Doctors will have no reason to go through a decade of schooling to get government wages rather than Capitalist wages. We can't get enough doctors as it is. Once their pay spirals down, you'll have no doctors and the ones you have will not be the best or brightest, that is, unless you want to force people to become doctors. There's a reason so many rich people from foreign countries come to America to treat terminal illness.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2011/12/19/the-ugly-realities-of-socialized-medicine-are-not-going-away-3/&refURL;=https://www.google.com/&referrer;=https://www.google.com/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/magazine/america-is-stealing-foreign-doctors.html

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
Antrim(999) Disputed
2 points

You just don't get it, do you fool?

Every nation in the world has it's winners and losers, it's hierarchy of achievers and it's lowly minions, otherwise known as sheepeople, of which you are clearly one.

The incapable 'hanger on' hirelings get what they deserve, i.e., the crumbs from the rich man's table, for which they should be thankful.

It's ''holier-than-thou'' filth such as you who spew out their sanctimonious drivel which has the low lives believing that the world owes them a living.

The poor nations of Africa either don't have effective health care systems in place or they have none at all. That's why in times of so called natural disasters their begging bowls are always pointing west.

Your pitiful bullshit may pluck the heartstrings of losers such as yourself who cannot provide for themselves nor their families so they want to rob others from a high % of their hard earned dosh to pay for their shortcomings.

Instead of feeling sorry for yourself and sitting in your computer room typing shit go out to work and make money that can pay for all contingencies including sickness, retirement and so forth.

Grow up, wise up and shut to phuck up.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
Mbt68(3) Disputed
1 point

The first thing you say is that "All privileges have to be earned". Witch I can agree with, but what I am arguing is that healthcare should be a right not a privilege.

Next you say the people who need support are "life's losers". Asserting that anyone who needs health care and can't afford it must just not be doing something right. Thay can't just be in bad situation or have supprise health issues spring up on them.

Next is the fact that you say high earners will prepare for situations like this. Which while true, implies that those who make less money deserve to not only live lower quality lives, but don't even get to keep living if they get something like a curable illness.

You say that if health care is a right then it should be given to all people like it a rediculas idea. And yet it should be that way. Even if there is no way to do it, it dose not mean it is not something that we should strive for.

Lastly you go on about how there is no way to pay for all the people in less devoloped country's and there health needs. And even if this is true, it dose not change the fact that in places where it is possible it should be done, and that we should try to help people who are in situations like what you listed.

Side: I have a right to healthcare
Antrim(999) Disputed
1 point

Your argument is flawed in so many areas it would be nigh impossible and also cruel to list them all.

Suffice to say that if you and the bleeding heart brigade wish to provide both domestic and international health care for the world's more unfortunate creatures then go right ahead, no one is stopping you.

Let's get away from the faceless vote conscious politicians of big government and personalize it;- what you're doing here is trying to justify you taking my money to pay for the social and health care requirements of you and your family because you cannot provide for yourself.

Why in heaven's name do you think you have the right to take my money?

I earned my money the hard way, no one gave me a cent, so why do people like you assume that you have a right to steal money from my hip pocket and deprive me of the ability to spend/invest MY money as I so wish?

Get off your fat bum, forget about the ''oh poor me syndrome'' and go out and earn your corn'.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
2 points

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/15/health-debate-wisdom-from-miss-usa-commentary.html

Of course it's a privilege to be earned whenever possible. God did not give us a right to a job, nor a car, nor a place to live or even to food.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
primoadvisor(5) Disputed
2 points

What are you talking about? God? You have got to be the biggest fool out here. What do you say about Iceland giving salaries to their citizens? Sharing the countries wealth just for breathing as a citizen. Tell me about God and that position genius. To even equate God into this conversation is bastardizing this conversation with absurdity and bastardizing God. No wonder Trump is president with folks thinking like you.

Side: I have a right to healthcare
1 point

He quoted the Miss USA commentary and provided the link. I don't think Daver is a believer in God.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
2 points

It could be declared a statutory right, but it certainly isn't a moral right or a natural right. You can't have a right to something that requires other individuals to take action on your behalf.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
2 points

I like this point the best. A right, by law alone, is very distinct from a moral right. The left simply conflates the two, in order to imply healthcare is equivalent to life and liberty.

Very good answer.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
Gypsee(258) Clarified
1 point

This is a very interesting point. What are natural rights? Is it every right man would exercise outside social contract ?

Do you think that natural rights are automatically moral rights?

Side: I have a right to healthcare
Amarel(2384) Clarified
1 point

Do you think that natural rights are automatically moral rights?

I think the concept of Rights probably derived from moral language such as a person defending their position in a fight by saying "I have the right of it". Eventually, "that's right" and "you're right" became "your Rights".

Natural Rights are those conditions that are necessary and proper to human survival and flourishing. We require life, liberty, property, etc. to survive and thrive. As such it is morally correct to uphold and defend these conditions, and to recognize that they are common to all people if they are common to any. Thus, everyone has them, unless or until they do something that makes it "not right" that they have these things. Life, liberty, and property can only be morally taken if a person has done something to morally forfeit them. Therefore the right to due process is derived from natural rights, and is provided by statute, in an attempt to maximize those rights that man would have even in a state of nature, and to take them only when it is right to do so.

Side: I have a right to healthcare

Healthcare is a privilege. The left will ball and squall, but it is. No one is obligated to help you for free on their dime and their time. And if you refuse to work, then why are you owed anything?

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
primoadvisor(5) Disputed
1 point

Why is healthcare a privilege in this country and not in Australia, Germany, England, Canada and all the other western countries like ours and some not like ours, like Russia? Why do you even think about this as mine and there's.? Why not everyone have healthcare as provided by and supported by the government, like the entire world does? Are you blind or ignorant to the way the world pays for healthcare or are you one of these patriots who thinks we do everything better than the entire world and we don't listen to anybody arrogant? C'mon man. Make sense with your damn argument

Side: I have a right to healthcare
2 points

1)People with money from those countries come here for healthcare. There's a reason...

2)In those countries you can wait weeks or months to even be seen. The doctor to patient ratio is monumental.

3)If you have an emergency ER has to help you in the U.S.

4)If you are poor or disabled, get on medicare/medicaid.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
1 point

Why not everyone have healthcare as provided by and supported by the government, like the entire world does?

The "rest of the world's" healthcare systems let them die based on averages. Or did you mean "like the rest of certain parts of the world"?

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.
1 point

Are you blind or ignorant to the way the world pays for healthcare or are you one of these patriots who thinks we do everything better than the entire world and we don't listen to anybody arrogant

1)The quality of healthcare would collapse due to an influx of customers vs doctors. You think it's slow now? If it takes a month in Cuba, how long do you imagine it would take in a country our size? There are people who died waiting to be seen by aย doctor, and that's with the amount of patients we have now.

2)You give the world government s full control of medicine, we have to do as told in every other area of life, or we don't get our medicine. It's tyranical government leverage against the people.

3)If you socialize the medical system, our piss poor number of doctors would crumble. Are you going to medical school, risking malpractice suits, and doing surgery on people for average wages? It's hard to get people to be doctors already with high capitalistic salaries. Or was your plan to go full tyrany and make people be doctors like it or not?

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.

There is no doubt that healthcare is a privilege. we wouldn't be talking about it today if we weren't for our government to hear out to our opinions. They make the decision at the end of the day.. At the same time, helping those who need it, and can't afford it, out of compassion and empathy, is completely different. You can't make it a right, but can always ask for help.

Side: Healthcare is a privilege.