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47
50
John Locke Thomas Hobbes
Debate Score:97
Arguments:65
Total Votes:101
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 John Locke (28)
 
 Thomas Hobbes (32)

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LCA 6A Enlightenment Debate: John Locke vs. Thomas Hobbes

Overarching Focus Question: Who has history (Time) proven correct, John Locke or Thomas Hobbes? 

In order to debate this question, please clarify which issue on your debate organizer you are referring to, explain the philosopher's ideas on this issue, and use modern day or historical examples to prove the philosopher correct. 

To receive full points for this debate, you must contribute a minimum of three well thought out arguments. An argument could explain the philosopher's ideas, describe an example to prove a philosopher correct, or provide extra supporting or refuting evidence to a classmates comment.

John Locke

Side Score: 47
VS.

Thomas Hobbes

Side Score: 50
3 points

I argue that I support Locke because he supports life,liberty,and property were Hobbes THINKS people are naturally cruel,selfish, and greedy. Another one is that Locke believes in free social contract were Hobbes thinks people should not be free to have social contract.

Side: John Locke
Will_R(4) Disputed
2 points

Hobbes also believed that the government should protect people's rights.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
kaitlynrabe(3) Disputed
2 points

Hobbes says that people are NATURALLY cruel, selfish, and greedy.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
Colb(3) Disputed
2 points

That did not apply to a lot of people back then because many people did not actually have those rights

Side: Thomas Hobbes
Julia-E(11) Clarified
1 point

They did not have them back then but now everyone has the same rights.

Side: John Locke
3 points

State of Nature/Conflict

(Before societies developed)

In the state of nature men mostly kept their promises and honored their obligations, and, though insecure, it was mostly peaceful, good, and pleasant. Though some places and times are insecure, violent conflicts are often ended by the forcible imposition of a just peace on evil doers, and peace is normal.

Today most of mankind celebrates holidays together in peace. Even though we may have had wars we also had a lot of peace and we created many festivities in honor of us getting over what we did in the past and learning from our mistakes. When we didn't learn from our mistakes and history repeated itself we learned the second time. And after all of this we are in peace, we are not at war.

Side: John Locke
3 points

Locke believed that a government can only be valid if it has a social contract with it's people. An example is when the colonists revolted against Great Britain

Side: John Locke
2 points

I agree with Carter because without a social contract people have no proof that they have rights. To have a stable government, people must put their trust in the government, and if people don't know what their rights are, they will not trust the government.

Side: John Locke
2 points

Another example was when Trump was impeached. this event used John Locke's idea of overthrowing government even though he wasn't thrown out of office. I found my information on DOGOnews.

Side: John Locke
1 point

Definitely, I agree because they were not given their rights so they were able to revolt.

Side: John Locke
3 points

Locke believed that people have natural rights. Life, liberty, and property. The U.S. used this in their Declaration of Independence. The U.S. is one of the most powerful countries on the world. People are encouraged to fight for their rights.

Side: John Locke
2 points

The first African American statue was put in statuary hall proving that all people have rights including African Americans. I found my information on Teen Tribune.

Side: John Locke
Will_R(4) Disputed
1 point

Slaves weren't encouraged to fight. Women weren't either. Both of them were considered displays. ''Everybody's'' rights, more like rights for powerful white people only.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
2 points

Human Nature

(Characteristics of all humans)

In a natural state all people were equal and independent, and everyone had a natural right to defend his "life, health, liberty, or possessions"

In the US today, all men and women who are part of the United States, are equal and independent in their own way. In the Declaration of Independence it says, ¨We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.¨

Side: John Locke
3 points

Locke wants people to be happy with their life and have what the need and not go power hungry.

Side: John Locke
Will_R(4) Disputed
2 points

Hobbes also believed people should be happy and that they should't be power hungry.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
3 points

Violation of the Social Contract

Locke believed a government can only be legitimate, or valid, if it is

based on a social contract with citizens. A contract is an agreement

between people in which both sides agree to something in order to

reach a shared goal. A social contract happens between a

government and its people. The people agree to give up some

freedoms if the government agrees to protect everyone’s rights. If

the government fails to deliver, the people revolt—like the colonists

did during the American Revolution.

In the American Revolution, the colonists revolted against the British because they were not given the rights that they were given at birth so they rebelled. They fought for their rights because they knew that what they were doing was right. Locke believed that people were given their natural rights at birth and they should be allowed to have them and the American Revolution shows the colonists defending their natural rights.

Side: John Locke
Colb(3) Disputed
2 points

When they wrote that that was not the case because slaves and women did not have a lot of liberty and could not really pursue happiness in that many ways.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
Julia-E(11) Clarified
3 points

They did not in the past but now women have the same rights of men so Locke must have influenced someone for women to get rights.

Side: John Locke
2 points

Yes that's true! The only people that had those rights were white men!

Side: Thomas Hobbes
2 points

When people are born, they have a blank slate. They fill it in as they progress through life. Hobbes say that people are naturally selfish and greedy. That is only when people are raised like that. You can make someone not be greedy by teaching them kindness and sympathy

Side: John Locke
kaitlynrabe(3) Clarified
2 points

Hobbes says that people are naturally cruel, selfish, and greedy by nature, not by being raised poorly.

Side: John Locke
levy(3) Disputed
2 points

I think that anyone can nget greedy no matter what you teach them, it is just something you have.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
2 points

Locke wants people to be happy and cares for people's rights.

Side: John Locke
2 points

True and Hobbes just stated that people were cruel, selfish, and greedy, not even giving them a chance!

Side: John Locke
levy(3) Disputed
2 points

He didn't give them a chance because he didn't have too. People on their own can do horrible thing like when one man attacked in Las Vegas attacked a concert and wounded 800 people.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Role of the State (Government)

The only important role of the state is to ensure that justice is seen to be done. Since governments exist by the consent of the people in order to protect the rights of the people and promote the public good, governments that fail to do so can be resisted and replaced with new governments. Locke is thus also important for his defense of the right of revolution.

In the US Department of Justice (DOJ) Thomas Jefferson wrote, “The most sacred of the duties of government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens.” This sacred duty to fulfill the promise of justice for all remains the guiding ideal for the men and women of the Department in carrying out their mission: “To enforce the law and defend the interests of the United States according to the law; to ensure public safety against threats foreign and domestic; to provide federal leadership in preventing and controlling crime; to seek just punishment for those guilty of unlawful behavior; and to ensure fair and impartial administration of justice for all Americans.” This shows that John Locke influenced the US government in many ways.

Side: John Locke
1 point

John Locke's version of social contract theory is saying that the only right people give up in order to enter into civil society and its benefits is the right to punish other people for violating rights, but according to Hobbes, the lives of individuals in the state of nature were "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short", a state in which self-interest and the absence of rights and contracts prevented the "social contract", or society. John Locke is stating that some people give up some of their rights to either have more rights, to live under justice or to live civilly. Hobbes is stating that people are too "solitary, poor, nasty, and brutish", and people are too upset about the absence of rights, that the social contract was postponed.

Side: John Locke
1 point

John Locke believed that people are a social animal. This is proven by CNN. CNN posted an article about comedians finding new ways to connect with their audiences. this proves that people like to be social.

Side: John Locke
1 point

He published a book about peoples natural rights. His book was called "Two Treatises".

Side: John Locke
1 point

Locke believed that the government was created to protect our day to day rights.

Side: John Locke
1 point

Hobbes thought that without kings everything would become out of order because people in his perspective are greedy, cruel, and unwanted.

Side: John Locke
1 point

Locke was the inspiration for the life, liberty, and, the pursuit of happiness which is one of the lines everyone knows in the United States.

Side: John Locke
1 point

lock wanted free speech for everyone so people can have a say in what is going on in government and in their country

Side: John Locke
1 point

Locke ideas are in the constitution and without Locke's ideas there would be the impotent civil rights movement and all the other impotent protests in history.

Side: John Locke
1 point

and without Locke whites and black would be serrated and woman would have fewer rights if Locke didn't exist

Side: John Locke
1 point

He hated Kings while Thomas Hobbes does. This means that John locke was for america while Hobbes wasn't.

Side: John Locke
1 point

Rights

He argued that people have rights, such as the right to life, liberty, and property, that have a foundation independent of the laws of any particular society. Locke used the claim that men are naturally free and equal as part of the justification for understanding legitimate political government as the result of a social contract where people in the state of nature conditionally transfer some of their rights to the government in order to better ensure the stable, comfortable enjoyment of their lives, liberty, and property.

When Abraham Lincoln dedicated a national cemetery for the soldiers who had died at Gettysburg, four months after that central battle of the American Civil War, he was not the principal speaker. But no other speech that day has been remembered the way Lincoln’s words are. He spoke of the past, of the “proposition that all men are created equal” on which the Republic was founded; he spoke of the present, of the sacrifices ordinary men in blue had made to vindicate that proposition; and he spoke of a future in which living Americans must continue to dedicate themselves to the “great task” of preserving that ideal forever. Nothing else anchors the challenges of our present to the intentions of our past more clearly than the Gettysburg Address. This shows that Abraham Lincon knew that all men were created equal and no one should have more power over another.

Side: John Locke
3 points

Locke's ideas about humans owning power would lead to division of power based on race and economic status.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
2 points

I agree with Colby because if we let people have all of the power without a structured system of government, there would be chaos throughout the country.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
2 points

Based on my evidence, I think that government was designed to protect people from their own selfishness.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
2 points

I would like to add that without laws or other social controls, people would always be in conflict.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
2 points

A question I have is what is the basis of social order because why would people give the government the power to make and enforce laws?

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes said that “Human beings are naturally cruel, selfish, and greedy”. This fact is proven by the obvious nature of men and women that their hunger for power and money is endless and can never be sated.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
3 points

it is important to stay safe so you give up your right to rule but you stay protected

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes says that the government was made to protect people from their own selfishness.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
landen(3) Clarified
2 points

Hobbes also said to give up some rights for liberty and common security

Side: John Locke
2 points

Hobbes wanted a social contract but didn't think it should go both ways. he believed once the people handed over the power for protection, they lost the right to overthrow, replace, or question the government.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
gabbycatty15(3) Disputed
1 point

I disagree with you because if you teach people how to share they won't be selfish, and if you teach them this from an early age, they won't need the government to protect them from their own selfishness.

Side: John Locke
1 point

Hobbes also believed that people wouldn't be able to invent things because they were scared people would steal it, also people would be scared to plant crops because people would steal them.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

If the government protects the people from their own selfishness, that would be a good thing and not a bad thing.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

I agree with Levi because if people are too selfish then they turn greedy and no one likes greedy people. Since the government is protecting people from their own selfishness, it is preventing them from thinking about themselves and thinking about others.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes said "The condition of man... is a condition of war of everyone against everyone." What he is saying is that why have government when we could have Kings and Queens. Hobbes thought slaves were good.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes also believed that government protected peoples rights.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes thought you should give up your rights but still stay protected.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes believed that all people have the right to be free

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes also believed that people are naturally cruel, selfish, and greedy.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

I believe that Hobbes is better because he believes that the state of nature does not mean war.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

He also says that people are naturally cruel, selfish, and greedy. Locke just thinks everyone can be perfect and the world is amazingly perfect.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Thomas Hobbes believes that without laws we would be driven into conflict

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Thomas Hobbes also believes that People are selfish and cant be trusted.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes believed that without a government, people would go crazy and be in conflict all the time.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
1 point

Hobbes ideas are important because people were cruel and selfish and they all should just give in their freedom be ruled instead of getting into conflicts.

Side: Thomas Hobbes
Julia-E(11) Disputed
1 point

But if they give in their freedom they will not be able live a fullfilled life.

Side: John Locke