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Debate Info

11
7
YES NO
Debate Score:18
Arguments:19
Total Votes:18
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Argument Ratio

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 YES (11)
 
 NO (7)

Debate Creator

PrayerFails(11139) pic



If even viable, would immortality really be desirable?

Immortal

YES

Side Score: 11
VS.

NO

Side Score: 7

Just think of all the video games you could play..., all the people you could troll..., the debates and arguments and the points ;)

Side: YES
1 point

Well, you see immortal will mean in the scientific view, a very strong body defense mechanism(immune & physical), the genes of Ageing not causing it anymore, Body replenishing cells it currently cannot repair like neurons . But it will NOT mean it will become impossible to kill yourself, you can always cut yourself in pieces and unlike fairy tales you won't join back.

So Yeah Becoming immortal would be cool, you could do all you want to do in life. Life will stop giving just one chance to you(infinite then) and one fine day when you feel life has become a burden you could just kill yourself under sedatives.

Side: YES
1 point

Once such technology could even be achieved, the trivial part such as emotional conflict is a small problem. The only way such feat could ever be achieved is through machine. The other through a more spiritual method which only one in a few million ever succeed. Their existence praised, then rumoured, then made a story.. and finally a mere legend. But I assume all you science geeks wouldnt be interested. The singularity movement is a term to describe an advancement of science and technology so profound that it represents a rupture in the fabric of the human race. The exponential growth of our technology theoritically proves that machines would be so intelligent... we could be part of them. Thus, and end to disease. Who knows someday a deadly virus wipes mankind and this might be the only way we stay alive. It is common knowledge that humanity wont last forever.

Side: YES
1 point

Maybe it's our current social and economic system that makes immortality so undesirable?

Side: YES

Before I start, I will be functioning with a few assumptions about factors that were left ambiguous in the question. Immortality is never dying (not an assumption), but the legal definition of death is brain death. I don't think that anyone would count subsisting in a persistent vegetative state as "living" in the immortality sense, at least not if it's permanent and consciousness is forever gone; moreover, irreversible damage to the body over time would necessarily lead to an end of consciousness, so it isn't a viable objection. I think the best way to justify the existence of immortality in a case such as this is with some form of perfect regenerative healing or infinite resurrection.

With these out of the way, I will now launch into my justification of my advocacy for immortality. One of the initial knee-jerk responses many people have to the concept of immortality is that an individual faced with eternity would become terribly bored. There are several problems with this, however. First and foremost, I have serious doubt that a person from the 19th century that had retained their youth would find themselves bored amidst the astounding technological and social advancements that have been made over the last two-hundred years. Humanity advances at a sufficient rate that there will be novel stimuli for at least millennia yet to come. Second, if the said immortal gets bored, they have eternity for rekindled interest. Even if they go insane, there's an infinite stretch of time for them to be cured. Finally, this immortal person has a human brain, so it will probably be doing human processing. Anything else would be changing the bargain, so unfair. Since the human brain doesn't have infinite capacity, yet the person would perceive an infinite number of events, they will necessarily forget everything they ever experience, albeit after a long while. This presents the opportunity for everything to seem novel once more.

The second objection usually presented is the fact that all those an immortal person loved would perish around them. This is very true and very tragic; however, it is not a deal-breaker and is nigh insignificant when considered on the same scale as the life-span of the immortal. Most of us lose loved ones within our lives. When this happens, the loss seems unbearable. Over time, however, our sense of loss decreases as a natural part of the grieving cycle. Widowed spouses remarry, parents who lost their children have more, and children who lost their parents move on and perhaps adopt a new parent figure. "Yes," one might say, "but the immortal would become desensitized over time and form no new healthy relationships!" There are two responses I would have to this: One, when we see this happening in our lives, it is when lots of people die in close sequence that are close to someone else, not over the course of millennia, centuries, or usually even decades. When people have the opportunity to properly grieve and move on for a lost one, they can go one to form new healthy relationships. Two, even if the immortal became desensitized, they have eternity to re-sensitize, and if the former can occur, the latter should too.

The final and best objection that I hear is the claim that becoming trapped is a statistical necessity over an infinite period of time. This is very true, and the only response I have to that is that becoming freed from that trap is also a statistical necessity. Things like black holes and the universe's heat death are difficult to deal with, since they deal with absolute destruction.

Side: YES

Why would anyone want to live forever? That would be a major drag on one's mental and physical emotions. The ups and downs would be endless.

One is for sure, everyone's time preferences would change. There would be virtually no present consumption and only future consumption.

Side: NO
1 point

Why wouldn't anyone want to live forever? Living forever does not mean that it would be a major drag. ups and downs would be endless? I think it will be good

Side: YES
monkyhaspokn(21) Disputed
1 point

You will live forever whether you like it or not! The soul is immortal! How can you deny this? It is indestructible just like matter. It is indivisible. It is singularity! It does not regress. It does not taint. It cannot end for that is impossible. Your consciousness is your soul. But your brain is not your mind! A drag on mental emotions you say? Emotions are of the brain not the mind! The mind is separate from the brain but the brain effects the mind. Once you lose the brain it no longer affects your mind. Your dispute is resolved! The monkey has spoken!

Side: YES
evhantheinfi(12) Disputed
1 point

I can't tell whether or not you're being facetious (the curse of the anonymizing effect that textual media can have), but I'd like to let you know that matter isn't indestructible. Also, there's no good reason that I see to believe in a soul.

Side: NO
1 point

Depends. Would the ENTIRE human race be immortal, or just you? If you, then I'd reckon that experience would be near hell. Having to watch everyone slowly die, while you live on. And eventually watching you the Earth, your former home, be destroyed...

If everyone, then great... Although, some people WOULD still not want to be immortal (near death, suffering, etc).

Side: NO
1 point

Well, the assumption was the entire human race. How would it be even possible that one person is immortal while everyone else is mortal even though the immortal person shares all the same DNA.

Also, how would anyone be still near death or suffering if everyone is immortal? Do you even know what immortal means.

Side: NO
evhantheinfi(12) Clarified
1 point

If a human achieved immortality, it would almost certainly not be through DNA. Besides the molecule's own inherent instability, it doesn't code for memories, experiences, exact physiology, or any potential method of ensuring absolute life.

Side: YES

Immortality would probably be a curse. Regardless though, it would be very convenient if the human life span was much greater than just a mere ~80 years on average.

Side: NO

Never, in my opinion. I hate sounding pessimistic, but our world seems to have reached it's peak ages ago, and now we're just heading for the bottom. Why would I want to live forever in a world full of violence and conflict? Why would I want to live forever in a world full of racism and inequality? Also, you'd never be able to build a long term relationship or close relationship with anyone, since you would just lose them in the end. I'd rather just live my life and go. Simple.

Side: NO
evhantheinfi(12) Disputed
1 point

The existence of xenophobia and conflict in the modern world is indisputable. There are less of either (per capita) right now than there ever has been in the past, ignoring small local fluctuations, however. Other than global warming and the increasing potential for self-annihilation (which is perhaps less than an external source of annihilation), the world is improving.

Side: YES

K, so no definitions were provided. In this case consider immortality for all individuals and without price. So the model is if you are born you stop aging at say 30 and then you continue to live indefinitely. I'm assuming there is a way for you to die. You would never die from old age but you would die from say someone chopping your head off. Definitions over.

So I think there are two reasons to dislike immortality in general. The first is the idea of social change and the second is the value of life.

Social Change:

Social change inherently happens by different generations rising to power with differing views from those that came before them. Consider racial equality in the late 1900's and sexuality equality currently happening in today's society. This is inherently beneficial as a world that progresses to less marginalization and prejudice is a society that caters to more individuals.

Value of life:

I'm applying a basic economically principled attachment to life. We, as humans, value life based on its scarcity. Our first encounter with death, it becomes clear how precious and limited life can be. You realize that you as an individual needs to enjoy your life as much as possible before that times comes. Whether that's becoming a billionaire, making friends, living in the wild or transforming into a movie star, each person takes this realization and chooses to do something with it. Without immortality this basis of value does not happen. What's preventing any of us from leaving our house to enjoy other people's company if we constantly believe that tomorrow is just as good as today? What happens if we choose to live without urgency or without meaning? We lose the value of life that makes the human experience so important. So while we will not be able to enjoy the human experience for nearly as long as immortals, we enjoy the experience while we have it.

Side: NO
Cuaroc(8829) Disputed
1 point

You would not be immortal if someone could kill you by chopping of your head.

Side: YES
1 point

K, so no definitions were provided.

No definitions are needed because immortal is explanatory within itself. Age and time doesn't exist given the part of immortality.

Side: YES
evhantheinfi(12) Disputed
1 point

Would you rather live twenty years rather than eighty? Based on your reasoning, you should. I think that most of us would find such a proposition preposterous. The value of life is assumed to be inherent and in the individual quantum of time, not the infinite quanta in which we don't live. As for the problem you presented, it was answered in the very way you conveyed it. Upon a cursory examination of their position as an immortal, one could spot the potential to procrastinate, and thus correct for it. However, I think you underestimate the effect basic human psychology would impact upon the situation. Humans, like most other animals, like instant gratification and would seek it despite their longevity; moreover, immortality could present an opportunity to avoid some of the consequences of seeking this instant gratification, almost presenting the opposite problem.

Side: YES