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Debate Info

92
86
ASU Havasupai Tribe
Debate Score:178
Arguments:35
Total Votes:226
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Argument Ratio

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 ASU (19)
 
 Havasupai Tribe (13)

Debate Creator

mangelo19(32) pic



Who do you side with?

In your group, one person will post for ASU, one person will post for the Tribe, one will be the "clincher."

Support, refute, and debate each post.  Then we will discuss as a group.

ASU

Side Score: 92
VS.

Havasupai Tribe

Side Score: 86
7 points

Received informed consent to study the causes of behavioral/medical disorders using the DNA from the subjects so it was not as if not consent was given. Also the potential benefit from unencumbered biomedical research trumps the value of individual control. In my opinion I would not have been angered by the use of my DNA because it was for the potential benefit of others. It is not as if the researchers were creating a bio-weapon to use against the indian tribe but rather using the DNA to research other diseases.

Side: ASU
5 points

The tribe signed a consent form with the exact words to “study the causes of behavioral/medical disorders.” This allows ASU to conduct as much research as they please using the tribes' blood samples. Additionally, for the sake of science, it is within the realm of acceptable ethical practice to use the samples if they benefit in discovering cures for other diseases, regardless of the original intent the samples were taken for.

Side: ASU
5 points

The University wanted to do further research to potentially help cure/treat other diseases by testing the DNA of the tribe. The tribe was not harmed in anyway, nor was anything put into their bodies that could be potentially harmful. The research also proved to be beneficial.

Side: ASU
5 points

ASU and the researchers provided the participants with an explanation of their intended efforts, "for wider-ranging genetic studies". While the desired outcome may have been identifying important clues regarding the tribe's diabetic epidemic, science pursues an objective truth above all else. This often comes in conflict with cultural beliefs, but research regularly leads to unforeseen paths which present themselves during the research process.

Side: ASU
5 points

I side with ASU because they did not break any laws or ethical boundaries. They were given the blood samples by the tribe and the university was going to try to help them out with their diabetes problem which would be very beneficial to the tribe. The university told the tribe that they would use their blood for research. This statement was very broad and technically includes other experiments.

Side: ASU
4 points

ASU may have thought that they were helping the tribe by doing further research on their DNA that could also help them understand any other issues in their genetics. The issue was of course not informing them of the additional research being done.

Side: ASU
4 points

The tribe signed a consent form. No matter how broad or vague the consent form was, the tribe still gave consent to "study the causes of behavioral/ medical disorders."

Side: ASU
4 points

ASU was able to create a greater scale of medical research by using the DNA for more than what they had originally intended it for.

Side: ASU
4 points

I can see from an ethical standpoint where the tribe felt disrespected and taken advantage of, however, from a legal perspective, blood samples from 1990-1994 was provided through a consent form. ASU recognized that the tribe's donors where most likely English was their second language and was as simple and consise as possible. The study was not only to study diabetes but was described to study the causes of behavioral and medical disorders which is extrememly broad much like the consent form they signed to. The issue would be the lack of communication and informing them of the additional research that was conducted based upon the samples. The samples weren't being abused but rather focusing on other medical research that can help the tribe in the long run.

Side: ASU
4 points

According to the article, the protection associated with "informed consent" is primarily for those participating in studies involving physical risk, experimental trials, or surgical trials. The cultivation of DNA does not fall under any of these categories. The DNA was mainly used for studies to find more information about the tribe to help them, never was it ASU intentions to harm them

Side: ASU
3 points

"Researchers and institutions that receive federal funds are required to receive “informed consent” from subjects, ensuring that they understand the risks and benefits before they participate. But such protections were designed primarily for research that carried physical risks, like experimental drug trials or surgery." This does not apply for DNA, therefore the school did not break any rules. Also, the research was used for other medical purposes, and "that the potential benefit from unencumbered biomedical research trumps the value of individual control"

Side: ASU
3 points

The use of the tribe's DNA was used for further research other than what the tribe requested, but it was beneficial to science and it did not harm the tribe in any way

Side: ASU
3 points

The tribe signed a consent form that allowed the college to do what they wanted with the blood samples. By signing the contract the tribe said they understood the risks of taking part in the study.

Side: ASU
2 points

Although I understand where the tribe may feel like they were disrespected or wronged, I side with ASU because they did obtain consent from the tribe. Also, the research done by ASU was beneficial, so overall it should help the Havasupai tribe, not hurt them.

Side: ASU
jackss11(2) Disputed
3 points

The research did hurt the tribe. The elders of the tribe tell stories to the younger members, and when they are being told that they are from somewhere else it hurts them. They never gave permission for their DNA to be used in this way.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
1 point

Should we not tell people there is no Santa Claus?

Also, it sure would be easier to not tell them the lies in the first place, right?

Side: ASU
2 points

The University gained consent from the tribe for "wide range genetic studies". Although the tribe hoped for studies about their history of diabetes, they did agree that their samples could be used for such wide range studies.

Side: ASU
9 points

The Havasupai Tribe did not have specified consent to what tests were being performed on their DNA. "Specified as behavioral/medical disorders" is extremely vague. The tribe should have complete knowledge upon what is being done when they sign off for the tests.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
8 points

Despite the fact that the Havasupai Tribe gave broad consent for geneticists to study their blood samples, the tribe originally had hoped to find answers as to why they were experiencing high rates of diabetes. Because the scientists pursued their studies further, they acted, though legally, unethically against the wishes of the tribe.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
7 points

I side with the tribe because the tribe gave their blood to ASU to find out more about why so many people in their tribe get diabetes. They did not say they were giving them their blood for whatever means they felt necessary.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
MWainwright(2) Disputed
7 points

The members of the tribe that gave the blood consented to "study the causes of behavioral/ medical disorders." All outside research that was conducted falls under medical disorders. Therefore, the research they conducted was legal.

Side: ASU
7 points

They crossed lines that jeopardized the Indian's origin and religion with their research. Also the DNA was only supposed to be used for study on diabetes and the subjects were not aware and did not give consent for additional research. Even if they did want to do additional research using the tribes DNA then they should have informed the tribe and waited for consent. ASU is also wrong because blood means a lot to the tribe and they betrayed the trust of the Indians by using their sacred blood for other things that the Indians were unaware of. Just because you can go a step further does not give you the right to disrespect someone else culture and take advantage of others to do so and that is what ASU did.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
6 points

The university did not clearly ask for consent to run those experiments. They lied by omission and took advantage of the Indians.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
2 points

From the article:

"The geneticist responsible for the research has said that she had obtained permission for wider-ranging genetic studies."

The did ask for broad consent - the issue is whether the consent was valid.

Side: ASU
6 points

When the Tride gave consent to ASU, they only can consent for ASU to only use their DNA for 1 study and not as many as ASU wanted. ASU used the Tribe's blood for their own personal gain without the Tribe knowing.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
6 points

Although the scientists did have consent to test the blood, the native americans were unaware of the intent of the studies. And after the initial research that the native americans requested was completed, the scientists continued to analyze the samples taken and came up with conclusions that was disrespectful to the native americans, such as inbreeding in their tribes and stories of orgin that conflicted with their beliefs.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
2 points

Science shows that the earth is not the center of our solar system, and that the sun and moon aren't in our atmosphere, or that fruit trees require sunlight to grow, and that pigeons exposed to random stimuli become superstitious, etc. - if religious people feel disrespected by those findings, should we stop doing science?

Side: ASU
6 points

The tribe's rights were violated, and what ASU concluded of results that contradicted their beliefs and traditional stories. That isn't something anyone should take lightly.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
2 points

Yes they should. If you don't agree with scientific findings, it is not my responsibility to ease your cognitive dissonance.

Side: ASU
5 points

I side with the tribe because the university did not get consent from the Indians to test their blood for anything other than using it to see why so many Indians get diabetes.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
0 points

That is an inaccurate reading of the story:

"The geneticist responsible for the research has said that she had obtained permission for wider-ranging genetic studies."

Side: ASU
4 points

The Havasupai tribe was not fully informed of the use of their blood samples. Although the University at one point was granted permission to use the DNA samples for diabetes research, they were also tested for other diseases and their results were compared to geographic results as well. Articles were written about the tribe, some of them demeaning. This went against what the tribe felt was their natural rights. On top of this, tribe members report that they were not informed of results about diabetes research. The point of this research was to help aid ill people in the tribe, and not only did this extensive research hurt them physically, their pride and faith was hurt as well.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
JustIgnoreMe(4290) Clarified
1 point

What would count as fully informed consent?

Should the scientist learn to speak Havasu? Detail all possible current genetic studies? predict all possible future studies?

Side: ASU
2 points

The university lied to the tribe, and used their DNA for research that they did not specify.

Side: Havasupai Tribe
1 point

Maintaining ethics when conducting studies is of crucial importance and prevents research from becoming exploitative and manipulative. The ASU researchers who conducted the study on the Havasupai tribe played fast and loose with ethics and broke the trust of the people they researched. This study if gone unpunished could set a dangerous precedence for future research.

Side: Havasupai Tribe