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Debate Score:26
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 Why doesn't the Old Testament apply? (18)

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Apollo(1607) pic



Why doesn't the Old Testament apply?

"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

     

Matthew 5:18-20 (OLD)

 

--Apollo

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3 points

That's very simple, because Christians wanted to wiggle their beliefs into a changing world so it would still be accepted. ^_^

2 points

According to some Christians I've asked about that, it's because many of the demands that the Old Testament was to specific groups of people (like the Israelites). I agree with him a bit because within the text many of the things were in command of specific groups.

When it comes to the bible, there is much to be interpreted, and with that comes much misinterpretation. I think debates about the bible, in the end, come to a major question mark. How much of the Old Testament can we accept as non-stop law? The Ten Commandments are just about the only thing that we can be sure of, and that's because it has been made clear in both the Old and New that the ten commandments must be followed. However, much of what can be considered sin is still in debate among very devout followers of Christ and other Theologians.

I do not agree, however, with the one-sided Atheistic arguments that basically just use the arguments of other (probably smarter) Atheists who have laid out very good but debatable arguments against religious teachings. If you put a brilliant Theologian next to a brilliant Atheist, they will have a debate that will not end. This is because, in the end, it's pointless to believe that we have irrefutable evidence AGAINST God or even a 2000 year old religion. If I had decided to believe until I was 100% sure that Christianity was wrong, I'd still be a Catholic, probably. But I know that's a stupid way to live. Christianity has failed to convince me when I was young, and that's enough for me to decide that I don't need to be a Christian. I enjoy the debates among the philosophers, but I'm starting to find that this is very old literature with much metaphor and poetry that can't be taken too seriously.

My underlying belief is that it is all just epic poetry that has been taken too literally for far too long. The Greeks truly believed in the Greek Gods, but that shit died out because those stories have never become formalized. I've written before about what could have happened if Plato got his way. Greek literature would have been preserved as rule, and they would have been regulated by the leader. The leader would decide which literature was accurate and would make it so that that is the only literature. If this Platonic society exists for 2000 years ago, everyone would just believe in that stuff instead of Christianity (well, there would just be another major religion).

This, to me, is how religion comes to being. It is poetry and philosophies contrived into a set of what some scholars back in the day decided were most accurate to their ideals. They spread the word of God, and people adapt to it.

and here we are, still debating the idea instead of just critiquing it.

2 points

Really good argument, I think you touched on some very deeps truths, specifically:

"but I'm starting to find that this is very old literature with much metaphor and poetry that can't be taken too seriously.

My underlying belief is that it is all just epic poetry that has been taken too literally for far too long."

This reminds me of a famous Joseph Campbell quote:

“Half the people in the world think that the metaphors of their religious traditions, for example, are facts. And the other half contends that they are not facts at all. As a result we have people who consider themselves believers because they accept metaphors as facts, and we have others who classify themselves as atheists because they think religious metaphors are lies.”

― Joseph Campbell, Thou Art That: Transforming Religious Metaphor

1 point

So, umm............Does that mean the ten commandments don't apply?

Hey..., you haven't responded to my messages and you banned from the other debate so I figured I'd try here..., do you still want to be enemies?

nahga(81) Disputed
1 point

there's just no way to shut you up is there? i'm not here looking for meaningful relationships. but one thing i am looking for is worthwhile debate and dialogue, not trading childish snipes and other grade school bullshit. i havent responded to your messages because i haven't bothered reading them. being enemies on a website is like being enemies with the boogie man, obviously i dont have lots of patience with annoyances. too many trolls in the world. if you have no actual argument, maybe you might refrain from replying to them.

1 point

Nooo! Apollo, please don't tell them! Please don't tell them the verses in the bible that say the Old Testament still applies! Don't you know what would happen??

When Christians find out that the Old Testament applies, they would be able to follow orders in the bible, such as "He who curses at their parents shall be put to death."

They would be mass murdering children! Think about the children!!!

I find this passage to be vague but the New Testament has better descriptions.