I am thinking of abandoning this argument, because shit i dont like arguing lol... and i agree with you the bible is twistable, because the bible is only a few mens accounts of jesus life. Its not the exact representation of jesus, its not a autobiography jesus never wrote anything in it, so we cant know his mind exactly, or his exact words. And its not a real biography because there is so much exageration in it. to me the whole point of the bible is to explain this idea; find your own personal jesus, do what you think is right, don't do what you think is wrong. if you dont know right from wrong then when you get judged you'll be held to a lower standard, all you have to do is believe jesus died for you and you get to go to heaven. If you know right from wrong, you better do whats right or your going to hell. And if you study scripture, you better not change the meaning of the scripture; apply your bible study conservatively.

Well i just got bored arguing... so ummm I'm crying uncle lol

Instead of arguing, can you guys answer my other questions i asked... I just want to know what makes gay marriage or abortion a worthy political debate. Like its such a hot button debate, that people will go to the poll and vote for the person that they agree with one solely abortion and gay marriage. Yet it has nothing to do with the presidents jobs or expectations that are; making/keeping a healthy economy, creating jobs, sustaining jobs, spending tax money efficiently, taxing the people fairly, etc...

I think you are equating a traditional conservative of the 1800's to the narrow group of KKK members who, who hated all minorities, and were 100% closed minded to new ideas. But let me assure you back in the 1800's there were plenty of sensible christian conservatives who would be open minded to sensible change. being a traditional conservative doesn't mean you are closed to change. To me it means your core value is dedication to the christian way of life, and that christian way of life is open to new ideas.

But when you force your values down others throats you aren't accepting their view, you aren't looking at it from their perspective. you are closed minded. Liberals are so busy shoving their beliefs down conservatives throats, they don't try to make compromise. Its their way or the high way.

I believe it was Abraham Lincoln, the father of the republican party, that freed the slaves... I'm just sayin...

I am a traditional conservative in the since that i have the core values of Christianity. Not fake Christianity, where you twist the biblical word to your own will. I mean Christian values like; live like Jesus taught you, seek god, seek peace, and don't impose your will or beliefs on anyone else. Live your life how you believe is good and just. Also live with an open mind, so if someone shows you that a thing you do is wrong, or a belief or value you have is wrong, be flexible and listen to them. Let your conscious be your guide, if you believe they are right and you are wrong, then change your value, or belief, or actions. That's the basis of, my conservative values.

The core aspect in modern liberal values that i disagree with, is the aspect that you are supposed to force your own beliefs on everyone else. Like everyone is supposed to agree with you, and if they don't agree you cant ignore them, you have to make them see it your way. Liberals just cant let people be conservative, they cant let people learn their own lessons, or decide their own decisions. Liberals need change now, like nothings perfect for them. They cant just face the fact that some bad things happen and you cant fix it, without fixing your self first. Liberals blame everything on something else, like there is a reason for everything bad in the world, and it cant be them, they cant be the problem. Where as conservatives realize bad happens, and the only way you can fix it is to start by fixing your self.

economics trumps social values for me, so i will vote democratically. But why cant I have a democrat to vote for that has conservative values (a fiscal liberal, but a traditional conservative when it comes to values).

And why have social values become so polarizing? so polarizing that people pick their politician on social values alone. Is it that the people that vote strictly for social values are too dumb to realize what an economic policy is? Because in the end a economic policy is what helps our nation succeed or fail, values don't matter one bit, values never created a job.

HAHA this is a rhetorical question right?

How can you spend money and help solve the debt problem.

We are so f* these days you cant have taxing and saving at the same time, its either tax and spend, or remove taxes and cutback the spending. Politics are so polarizing, there is no compromise.

We need a leader that will tax the richest and cut the welfare for the poorest. Hit us both where it hurts, cause we are all hurting. This is the only way to avert a world crisis.

Basically in 12 years we have went from no debt (a balanced budget) to 15 trillion in debt. thats over a trillion a year. We made bad investments (bailouts, corporate welfare, etc...), we get no return on the tax dollars spent. The tax brakes we gave to the richest (bush tax cuts) let the rich get richer and save their money and make great fortunes and spend nothing domestically. Think about it the rich have tons of money but cant spend it because there is no good bet these days. Like if you have 500 million $ where are you going to invest it? wall street is bairly treading water. The rich with all that money have no way to spend it, they lose money trying to create jobs.

The middle class first bought gas guzzling SUV's and sub prime mortgages for years. The SUV's gave billions to gas rich countries OPEC nations. The sub prime mortgages gave trillions of profits to the banks, who acted recklessly. And the government bailed out all those banks (2 trillion dollars) to buy the bad assets. We used to live as a nation off the backs of the middle class, we won or lost with the middle class, but now the middle class is deteriorating. most families lost money on their house, like they are owe more than their house is worth.

Not to mention that we are buying foreign cars where all the profits are made overseas, taking money out of our nation (money that could be used to give to people and be taxed, or be used to buy things that are taxed. So that money goes back to the people and the government - but this is not happening). We do this because our domestic cars are not competitive price or gas mileage. yet we bailed out the auto makers?

And republicans blame the poor? they say the poor get money from the government and waste other tax payers money. That may be, but they pretty much spend their money on living, like on food bus passes, school supplies. They spend their money on mostly domestic products (besides cheap Chinese goods, but we all buy that crap), so the money they get goes to the local farmer that supplied their meals, or at least the money goes to McDonalds, another domestic company.

And i guess i should have pointed this out earlier, but for those that are wondering what does it matter, spending on american goods or foreign goods. Well when you buy american, not only are you supporting american jobs, but you keep those dollars in america. when you buy foreign, you ship your dollars off to that country, and they will not come back, because we import more than we export, so you take those dollars out of the economy. When they stay in the national economy, as long as they are spent, they are taxed, and that is a good thing.