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Debate Info

16
25
Yes No
Debate Score:41
Arguments:35
Total Votes:50
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Argument Ratio

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 Yes (15)
 
 No (20)

Debate Creator

lolzors93(3225) pic



A "hierarchy of good" is proof of a good God.

There are lesser goods (i.e. complimenting someone) and greater goods (i.e. dying for someone). Likewise, there are greater evils (i.e. murdering someone) and lesser evils (i.e. insulting someone). An evil being is incapable of producing any good, since it is above him, like an unpowerful being is incapable of producing more power, in the certain sense. However, a good being can produce that which is below him, like an all-powerful being can do lesser powerful things. If evil is the lack of good, and there are greater goods, lesser goods, greater evils, and lesser evils, then it follows that there is a "hierarchy of good." Hence, if there is a hierarchy of goods, then the being to create them must be at least that which is equivalent to the highest good. There is a most great good. Hence, there is most great good God.

Yes

Side Score: 16
VS.

No

Side Score: 25
1 point

I think this to be so. However, one could prove me wrong.

Side: Yes

This philosophy does make sense. God is good and the hierarchy of good exists.

Side: Yes
1 point

So a serial killer is incapable of dying for someone or complimenting someone?

Side: No
lolzors93(3225) Disputed
1 point

That depends on what you mean by serial killer.

Side: Yes
Cuaroc(8827) Disputed
3 points

What the term Serial killer generally means.

Side: No

The idea of a deity who partakes in scapegoating and murder for revenge being "good" is laughable.

Side: No

As this debate is entitled A""hierarchy of good" is proof of a good God."

I'm going to go with the assumption that we are arguing as though a god does exist and that we are trying to work out whether or not that it is actually good.

Your entire premise rests on the fact that because there is a scale of good, that the top of the scale (also it's creator), must be good.

What you fail to include is that the scale contains both ends, and there is no way of weighing either, what's to say that God isn't on the other end of the scale.

In fact evil acts have far more impact then good and they happen far more often, so it would seem that if God created all, then the very fact that there is more evil than good, or that it has more impact on our lives would lead to the inference that God was evil and not really in control of everything.

Side: No
lolzors93(3225) Disputed
1 point

The fact that there is any greater good is proof of God being good. The quantity is irrelevant. The quality is what matters, since an evil being cannot do that which is above him.

Side: Yes
ricedaragh(2494) Disputed
1 point

an evil being cannot do that which is above him.

So nothing can change?

Side: No

what exactly do you mean by a hierarchy of good? would you mind clarifying please?

Side: No

Good and evil are human constructed concepts, they do not exist inherently.

Side: No

An evil being is incapable of producing any good, since it is above him

Can we establish that such a being would even exist outside of the realm of conceptuality?

an unpowerful being is incapable of producing more power

Can we establish that good is a quantifiable thing that can be objectively measured an on a scale?

However, a good being can produce that which is below him, like an all-powerful being can do lesser powerful things.

This seems to give the advantage to evil, since evil cannot do good, but good can do evil. I find it unlikely that such a reality would foster the survival and advancement of the human race.

If evil is the lack of good

That is a highly debatable "if".

Side: No

There are lesser goods (i.e. complimenting someone) and greater goods (i.e. dying for someone). Likewise, there are greater evils (i.e. murdering someone) and lesser evils (i.e. insulting someone).

I would agree as this aligns with my sense of morality which is based on empathy, thinking positively of the improvement of others well being, and thinking negatively with the deterioration of others well being. I would agree morality can be relative...

However, a good being can produce that which is below him, like an all-powerful being can do lesser powerful things.

Makes sense.

If evil is the lack of good, and there are greater goods, lesser goods, greater evils, and lesser evils, then it follows that there is a "hierarchy of good."

What makes you believe evil is the lack of good? Why can't they be two different things? Can something be good and bad at the same time? yes, you can choose a lesser evil of two evils, and it will be good because you were trying to prevent evil, but bad at the same time cause you still chose something bad. For example I kill someone who was going to kill someone else, it's good I saved someone, but bad that I killed someone. I do agree good and bad are or at least can be like two sides of the same coin, however one isn't an absence of the other necessarily. For example the actions that you deem good and evil, aren't absences of each other, they are two different things. Insulting someone isn't the absence of complimenting someone, and vice versa. Someone can possess a morality that separates good and evil as you just did, not like light and dark where one is the absence of the other, but like fire and ice, where they are two separate things that contradict each other.

There is a scale to morality is what you mean? I do agree somewhat, morality is a subjective thing so their could be different scales for different moralities, or to those that believe morality is objective and not relative there would be no scale at all, it could depend on who you talk to. However I think there are a lot of common ground between most people, or at least enough people for the next ten people you ask them about, and most of them will say morality is relative, because morality is typically based on our feelings and emotions, and relative morality expresses that better. I don't feel strongly against insult as much as I do against murder.

Hence, if there is a hierarchy of goods, then the being to create them must be at least that which is equivalent to the highest good. There is a most great good. Hence, there is most great good God.

No cause good and bad are merely judgements, judgements that we human beings are perfectly capable of making.

Side: No
0 points

A hierarchy of good is not proof of God because there is no proof that the hierarchy was created to begin with (rather than being evolved, for instance). The only thing that a hierarchy of good demonstrates with any certainty is that there is a moral gradient for good.

Side: No
lolzors93(3225) Disputed
2 points

Evolution has no morality except in that which creates the most likely environment for self-preservation and the passage of one's genes. Thus, any sort of genocide could be moral, if it helps the being survive and to pass his genes down. To argue for any sort of objective morality is to argue for God.

Side: Yes
Jace(5163) Disputed
1 point

I have actually already addressed your Hitler genocide point and demonstrated why it a fallacious attempt to deconstruct moral evolution. To make a basic reiteration, however, evolution of the human species exerts force for both individual and collective survival and perpetuation. There is also no reason at all to think that enacting genocide would be in any way advantageous to individual reproduction.

I suggest you read The Origins of Morality: An Evolutionary Account by Dennis Krebs for further elaboration. I am not especially interested in trying to explain much of anything to you at this point.

Side: No
Jace(5163) Disputed
1 point

Oh, and I am not arguing for an objective morality. If I were, God certainly would not be my go to source for it.

Side: No