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Do you want Government telling African American private businesses to cater KKK meetings?
If you do, you are as mind blowing radical as those who want Government forcing Christians to cater Gay weddings. How is it any different? KKK racism is something any decent parent(Black or White) would want to keep away from their kids who help with the family business. For Christian families, the Scriptures tells parents to keep their children from the sins of the world. Homosexuality would be one of those sins as described in the Bible, and is why a Christian owned business would not want it exposed to their children. This is not rocket science but as always, the double standards in the hypocritical world of Liberals is amazing.
No person should be banned from a restaurant unless they were pushing their KKK beliefs, or Homosexual beliefs, or religious beliefs, or any other belief onto that private business. There is no way to know a KKK member or Gay person when they walk into a store. This entire issue has been blown out of proportion by radical Left wing Gay activists and Liberals trying as always to force all Americans to bow to the Left's political correctness and ideology. Mind control!
Just once I woud love to see a Liberal with the common sense to support the freedoms of Americans to disagree and the freedom to run their family business as they see fit. LIBERALS.... GET OUT OF OUR LIVES! Let the free market work and if a business is truly racists, or bigots, or whatever, DON'T BUY THEIR PRODUCT!
No person should be banned from a restaurant unless they were pushing their KKK beliefs, or Homosexual beliefs, or religious beliefs, or any other belief onto that private business.
Finally, you have said something smart. Although, it goes against everything else you have said. The homosexuals in all of these examples were nor pushing their beliefs on anyone. You are defending Christians you think are wrong.
Liberals would be fine with your statement. In fact, I don't think they would side with a gay man who was disrupting a business and got thrown out. Why are you defending a law that makes it ok to refuse service to someone before they are a nuisance?
You are misrepresenting that law. It's not about people coming into a restaurant to sit down and eat, it's about groups of people such as the KKK or Gay wedding receptions, or a pornography convention etc. that represents something that goes against that business owner's or Pizza maker's faith. He did not want to cater some function that his scripture tells him to stay away from.
Can you grasp the difference?
Gee according to you I've finally said something smart. I guess I can move on to the next debate site now.
You just agreed with my argument. No one should be forced to cater events that goes against their faith or beliefs or for any reason. Basically it is their right to choose what they cater. I would agree with any law that allows people to dine at any restaurant because that is not pushing an agenda or lifestyle. These laws we are discussing force businesses to cater things they do not want to cater. In those two states they are saying businesses have the freedom to say no. Good for them.
Do you think this is the first time Liberals have tried to force businesses to cater things they disagree with? It happened a few years ago in other states. Liberals are control fanatics pushing their agendas. The laws and freedoms of the people only apply when it supports their agendas.
Republicans are fighting for the right for businesses to not accept money. This is in direct opposition to the idea of making money. You guys need to pull your heads out of your asses and just serve gay weddings. You are ruining capitalism.
I believe most people place discrimination of persons based on attributes they are born with in a different category than discrimination of persons for being assholes. You choose to be a KKK member, you are born gay.
It matters NOT why the private business does not want to cater an event. IT IS HIS RIGHT TO CATER WHO HE CHOOSES!
The KKK chooses to be bigots and hate Blacks.
Christians believe Gay's choose to have sex with the same sex.
It matters not if a person chooses what they do or believe, or if a person tells us he was born that way.
This issue is all about freedom of a people to run their lives, their family and their businesses as they choose. It makes no difference why they choose to not cater certain events, it is their right to disagree.
What if they are tired and taking a break for awhile and do not want to cater events. WHO CARES THE REASON, IT'S THEIR RIGHT!
The Supreme Court seemed to rule against your arguments in Newman v Piggie Park Enterprises, so where in the Constitution do you believe this right comes from?
It matters not if a person chooses what they do or believe, or if a person tells us he was born that way.
Even if you want to refuse to recognize the permanency of one's sexual orientation, it is still an inherent characteristic, which differentiates it from political and religious beliefs.
LOL, why must Liberals ALWAYS pick and choose and separate the political correct groups, classes, minorities, races, etc. WE ARE ALL AMERICANS and we used to all be afforded individual freedoms to disagree and right to our own beliefs. If a Gay owned private business wants to not cater a Christian event.... great, it is his right to do so.
You arguing this simple matter of personal freedom of private business truly shows the arrogance and anti freedom nature of Liberals and proves all the arguments I make on this site.
LOL, why must Liberals ALWAYS pick and choose and separate the political correct groups, classes, minorities, races, etc.
How have I done that in any way? I have simply pointed out the difference in types of groups between inherent characteristics and beliefs.
WE ARE ALL AMERICANS and we used to all be afforded individual freedoms to disagree and right to our own beliefs.
We all still have those rights, but for quite a long time now we have not had the right to refuse service to people based on those beliefs.
If a Gay owned private business wants to not cater a Christian event.... great, it is his right to do so.
I have asked many times: Where in the Constitution do you believe that right comes from?
You arguing this simple matter of personal freedom of private business truly shows the arrogance and anti freedom nature of Liberals and proves all the arguments I make on this site.
You keep repeating this sort of thing over and over ad nauseum, and it accomplishes and contributes nothing. I have even indicated to others that I believe in a certain degree of freedom to deny service under certain conditions, something you seem completely unaware of. But I have been talking about what the law and Constitution ACTUALLY say, regardless of my opinions, while you simply rail against "Liberals".
It amazes me the people who can't get a simple point. I am saying that when arrogant control fanatic Liberals and Gay activists want Government to force a Christian family owned business to cater things that go against their faith, you must force all private businesses to cater things they oppose. I am using the analogy that African American owned businesses would be forced to cater KKK meetings under these radical extremist controlling laws.
Is that the world you want to live in where a corrupt Government forces it's people to do things that go against their faith, or their humanity ,etc.
Imagine if a pro life family business was forced to cater a pro abortion get together. Can you grasp this point that is so obvious.
This is how brainwashed Americans have become by the Liberal media. They listen to these liars misquote and mislead the facts of the story to make you think it is so terrible.
After reading what I have said, do you see what is actually going on here? Our freedoms to disagree or stand up for our beliefs are at stake. This includes all Americans! Not just Christian freedoms.
This debate is 1 part strawman and 1 part slippery slope, both ultimately fallacious.
A legal precedent establishing sexual orientation as a protected class would require businesses to lend further consideration to the LBTQ crowd, but would not require anything of businesses insofar as membership within a secular organization is concerned.
Treating membership within an arbitrary secular organization as a protected class is another thing entirely, and it's ridiculous to suggest the two are one and the same.
Do you EVER see the ludicrous hoops you run through to try and somehow twist obvious common sense freedoms to not apply to groups that you dislike? HYPOCRITE! A Gay business has the same right as others to not cater a Christian event if they so choose. It's called FREEDOM to disagree in this nation and it's called religious freedoms! The Left ALWAYS distorts common sense truth to create their prejudiced twisted political correct control fanaticism.
First of all, the KKK would never be consumers of a business run by African Americans. Second of all, being a KKK member is a choice, whereas being gay or being black is not, so prejudice against one does not equal prejudice against the other. But beyond that, honestly, yeah I would want the business to cater. A business is designed to make money. A business does not have religious beliefs. A business needs to serve its clients. And as far as exposing children to something, they are going to be exposed. I'd much rather have a genuine opportunity to sit down with them and discuss the situation. "Billy, our restaurant was hired to serve this KKK convention. We're going to do it because they are paying customers who have asked us to feed them, and have not caused any problem at this point. We don't agree with their beliefs, because being black is how someone is born, and in no way an indication of their intelligence or worth. However, if they do insult us directly or cause a problem, then we are going to have to cancel our contract with them for safety reasons. Now, you normally help serve these events, but I understand if you personally would prefer for someone to take your place." Boom, done. You've shown compassion to people who disagree with you, you've taken the opportunity to have some intelligent discourse on the topic, and you've moved on with your life. In doing so, you may very well show a KKK member that black people aren't as bad as he thought. Where the hell is the problem - just serve the clients!
You said "A business does not have religious beliefs"
WHAT PLANET do you live on?
Our businesses are created by human flesh, by people with their own beliefs, religious or otherwise. That private family owned business is indeed part of their faith and is run as they see fit.
Any person that deny's them their freedom to disagree or their freedom to follow their faith IS A DANGEROUS MORON!
A business is an organization designed to engage in the purchasing and selling of goods or services in order to make a profit. A business is not a living thing. The purpose of a business is to make a profit. While it may be created by people, it is not a person. And frankly, if you are more determined to judge others under the guise of a business, you shouldn't be running one. I'm not denying anyone the freedom to follow their faith - I'm saying a business does not have a faith. You want to run something with religious beliefs, found a damn church. I have plenty of beliefs of my own, however my business does not and when I'm working, I don't deny clients with a different belief system because I disagree. Welcome to the real world.
You mean welcome to a dictatorship where GOVERNMENT forces it's will on the people? You are either a truly brainwashed sheep to actually swallow what you just spewed, or you are one of the fanatical extreme radicals who actually thinks he can force a private family owned business to cater things against their faith or beliefs. I'm ashamed we have people like you in this nation who have no clue what our founding fathers fought and died for. People like you want to take us back to a time when the people are controlled by Government, not the other way around. This nation is built on RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, NO MATTER IF YOU OR A CORRUPT CONTROLLING GOVERNMENT DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU!
A family owned business is part of that family and idiots who say otherwise I should care? Who do you think you are to try and push your beliefs of what a business is on me and my family? If you don't agree with the Christian faith, don't be a Christian and don't arrogantly try to force them to cater your event. What kind of arrogant fools want people who believe Homosexuality is a sin, to cater their wedding reception. There can be only one reason to do so. They want to FORCE every single American to believe their lifestyle is normal and natural. Hmmmmmm, how many other groups want to do the same thing? This is America and we can disagree with your fanaticism. Do you want the KKK to force you to cater their functions? GET SOME HELP! You are fanatical!
This nation is built on RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION,
Yes, freedom of and from religion. And freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say what you want with no repurcussions - it means you can't be arrested for it. I have plenty of beliefs. I run a business. When I am working, I do not turn away clients because their beliefs differ from mine. It's unprofessional, unkind, and ridiculous to do so. And that's just in regards to things where people have a choice. To deny service to someone because they were born differently, is cruel, degrading, and again, unprofessional. I agree that people shouldn't want someone who disagrees with them to serve their events, but sometimes they do. And a business doesn't disagree. Deal with it.
Hmmmmmm, how many other groups want to do the same thing?
How about nearly every social issue group in the US? 40 years ago, black people were fighting for equal rights, were being turned away at lunch counters, solely because they were born with darker skin. 100 years ago, Irish and Italian people could only hope for menial labor jobs in this country, because of the nationality into which they were born. Right now, Middle Eastern people born in the US are being harassed and facing prejudice. Homosexual people are born homosexual - in your terms, God made them that way. And PLEASE stop using the word natural as if homosexuality is not. Natural means "occurring in nature" which homosexuality does. Frankly, if you want to talk about things that are unnatural, let's start with religion, prejudice, and social constructs.
Now, next point, I'm fanatical? About what? You are so obsessed with your religion that you can't see beyond it into the real world, but my trying to temper the situation and establish limits so that minority groups are protected is fanatical? Are you aware of the meaning of that word?
It's amazing how many people seem to be missing the entire point.
Yes, the KKK hates Black people and is why it would be pathetic to force an African American family business to cater a KKK event.
These laws that would force Christian family businesses to cater things that go against their faith would also force Blacks to cater KKK events if the KKK wanted them to.
If that analogy is too hard to grasp, then how about a pro life family forced to cater a Pro abortion rally or dinner to raise money for Pro Abortion agendas.
What are you missing here? We are talking about our family's freedoms and right's to disagree and cater whoever they want. There will always be the vast majority of businesses who have no convictions against different groups and will gladly take the money. These groups will never have a hard time finding a caterer.
If your argument is that the KKK would not want a Black business to cater their event, the same could be said for a Gay wedding reception where they might not want a Christian family business to cater their reception if the family believed Homosexuality is a perversion, as the New Testament says.
I as a white Christian parent would never want my children helping at a KKK event because the Scriptures teaches parents to keep their children from the sins of the world. Hate and bigotry is a sin as is Homosexuality according to our faith. If I owned a family business I have the right to decide for myself what I deem bad for my children and no corrupt arrogant controlling Liberal Government should ever have the power to tell me otherwise. Liberals are truly at war with our religious freedoms. It is very scary!
They have decided in all their arrogance that Christians have no right to stand by their faith when running a private business. You are truly scary people and so totally stupid not to see it could come back on you someday when the powers of Government turn against you.
" If I owned a family business I have the right to decide for myself what I deem bad for my children and no corrupt arrogant controlling Liberal Government should ever have the power to tell me otherwise. Liberals are truly at war with our religious freedoms. It is very scary!"
You have not indicated how this issue has anything to do with either religious freedom, or your children.
"They have decided in all their arrogance that Christians have no right to stand by their faith when running a private business. You are truly scary people and so totally stupid not to see it could come back on you someday when the powers of Government turn against you."
Except it has nothing to do with Christians. These laws apply to people of all religions.
This entire issue has EVERYTHING To do with religious freedom and exposing our children in a family owned business to things we might object to. I realize Liberals are arrogant enough to judge Christians and tell them how they should raise their family. People on the left absolutely hate the fact that Christianity calls homosexuality a sin. This is the main reason in my humble opinion why the media, Hollywood, sitcoms, etc. constantly judge Christians as homophobes and will constantly ridicule them. If someone else dares to express his opinions on Homosexuality, they are ostracized from society as hatemongers and fools and run out of business.
Do you see the total knee jerk hatred from people against a business that dares take a stand for his personal religious beliefs? There is no tolerance for opposing views. No open mindedness for diverse opinion. But when it comes to fringe groups such as Gays, their opinions and diversity are the only thing that matters in this politically correct dictatorship.
"This entire issue has EVERYTHING To do with religious freedom and exposing our children in a family owned business to things we might object to."
It really doesn't. It is about preventing anyone from discriminating, whether they are religious or not, against others when running a public business. I fail to see how one's children would be "exposed" if the parents do not want them to, but if they are truly that concerned, they should not be operating a business open to the public.
" I realize Liberals are arrogant enough to judge Christians and tell them how they should raise their family."
How have they done that, exactly?
"People on the left absolutely hate the fact that Christianity calls homosexuality a sin"
Why do you always try tell us what we think? Especially while calling others arrogant? I could not care less that the Bible calls homosexuality a sin.
"If someone else dares to express his opinions on Homosexuality, they are ostracized from society as hatemongers and fools and run out of business."
That is what happens when societal norms change, and people stick to outdated ones. The same can be seen for any number of similar opinions.
"Do you see the total knee jerk hatred from people against a business that dares take a stand for his personal religious beliefs?"
No, but I see a knee jerk hatred from people against businesses that think they should be able to discriminate, and rather obviously towards homosexuals in particular. That is not "religious beliefs", and you still haven't demonstrated how the bible calls for Christians to deny homosexuals service.
"There is no tolerance for opposing views. No open mindedness for diverse opinion. "
The key to this debate is the word cater. Should a catering business be allowed to make judgement calls on the jobs they take? If the caterer doesn't feel comfortable in the environment they would do their job in can they decline? With catering you have to go outside your business. Is it ok for a caterer to draw a line in the sand and say there are places they wouldn't go? Can they use any reason?
Those are very interesting questions, and I do not particularly have answers to them. With a business open to the public that is held to anti-discrimination laws (within states that have them, of course), I am not sure what situations that make people feel uncomfortable could be used as a means of refusing service. I would think that a court would rule if you are uncomfortable simply because of the presence of a group covered by said anti-discrimination law (i.e. racial groups, religious groups, etc.) then it would not be legal, where as if you are uncomfortable because of fear for your safety and well being, it would be acceptable, but that is pure conjecture on my part.
Honestly I would need to spend a significant time thinking over the ramifications of it, and if there would need to be exceptions for it, such as with businesses that do not spend much (if any) time in a central location, or businesses associated with key industries (thinking of power, water, gas, etc).
Conceptually I'm tempted to say that I would agree with such a law, but don't hold me to that.
That is what is great about limited capitalism. If a company decides to refuse services and hurts its public image, the market will crush it. Crafty competitors could focus their marketing towards the opposite view in order to boost their image. If the refusal of service generates positive publicity or more sales, then that should be allowed in a capitalistic society.
Of course, this is all dictated by that society's general moral standards.
Can you read? I said no one should be refused from a restaurant unless pushing things offensive to others. Skin color is not pushing anything. I totally agree with laws protecting all people's right's to eat in a restaurant unless they are doing things such as making out(straight or Gay), disorderly, pushing an agenda or lifestyle that offends the business owner. Skin color is not an agenda or lifestyle and is not considered a sin by any religion I know of. We are not talking people walking into restaurants, we re talking about conventions and receptions that are all about that group's agenda or a particular event based on things which are considered sins in many religions. No business should ever be forced to cater these events.
You are talking about a protected group under the Federal Civil Rights Act. It would be illegal to deny them service. The KKK is not a protected group and therefore does not fall under its protection. Of course, the private business could come up with some "business" reason for refusal of service. Previous rulings vary greatly on what is considered business.
Example: A bar refused service to some bikers for refusing to remove clothing that exhibited their club sign claiming the signs would incite fights between different clubs. This was ruled as non-discriminatory.
The African American business could claim the KKK patrons would cause a fight and therefore refuse service. The ultimate decision would be up to the courts. The same logic applies to any non-specified group under the Civil Rights Act or any state legislation.
So yes. Every business has the right to refuse service as defined by the Federal Civil Rights Act.
You are talking about a protected group under the Federal Civil Rights Act.
Oh, so you have a right, but it has a bunch of limitations. Yeah, so we call that not having that right.
It would be illegal to deny them service. The KKK is not a protected group and therefore does not fall under its protection. Of course, the private business could come up with some "business" reason for refusal of service. Previous rulings vary greatly on what is considered business.
I fail to see in your post where you said you have the right to refuse service to anyone who is in the KKK.
All rights are limited. The First Amendment of the US Constitution dictates specific rights for US citizens. Even if they seem unalienable to you, they are still limited by the scope of the US federal government and the Amendment itself.
You could potentially refuse service for any number of reasons that do not fall under the Civil Rights Act. That does not mean a judge will see it the same way. "the private business could come up with some 'business' reason for refusal of service. Previous rulings vary greatly on what is considered business."
Ok, so we have established it is a right unless a judge disagrees. Fine. We are entering a territory where the religion conflicts with the Civil Rights Act. What takes priority since homosexuals are covered under the Civil Rights Act?
Ok. My mistake. Why are we supposed to be happy that gays are being left off the list? We shouldn't even have a Civil Rights Act law at all. The reason why it was created in the first place is because idiots didn't want to sell to certain people because they felt they had the right to. At least in the next decade or so I will get to laugh as religious people change their tune and figure out how they aren't violating their religious beliefs when they are forced to serve gays.
You are not suppose to be happy about anything. The law is the law. If you want to change it, write to your Congressman.
We should definitely have a Civil Rights Act. Discrimination will always exist. You need to have a clear piece of legislation (although the current legislation is not very clear) to protect people. CRA's origin was not about selling stuff to people. It was about racial segregation. Jim Crow and what not.
Serving gays, like serving black will be wrong in one decade and right in another. The whole point of living in a society is to improve upon mistakes. No point trying to sound superior because you happen to be on the right side of history for one event.
EVERY private family owned business has the RIGHT to cater or not cater anything he wants. All Americans have the same right's as Civil rights. We have religious rights to follow our faith. Quit being an idiot that gives only certain people rights.
EVERY private family owned business has the RIGHT to cater or not cater anything he wants.
Where do you believe this right emanates from within our Constitution?
We have religious rights to follow our faith.
If you mean the right to worship, then you are correct. But at no point has the Supreme Court ruled that one has the right to follow their religion to the point of illegality or violating another person's rights.
Quit being an idiot that gives only certain people rights.
He says, while wanting to deny rights to others :P
You are sounding the fool! Tell us what rights are being denied? Are you going to tell me that because some person wants to throw a reception or event or meeting, he has the RIGHT to force others to cater his event? GET REAL!
If i want to throw a party to celebrate some event, do you actually think I have a right to force some business to cater it? You act like I have a right to throw a party and force others to help me do it. We are not talking about the right of life. Oh wait a minute, Liberals don't believe in the right of life but they are so outraged if some people can't force others to cater their event. Talk about insanity!
Why not just admit the simple facts of why Liberals are so outraged over these types of things. YOU ARE FIXATED ON PUSHING THE GAY AGENDAS!
Then you must ask yourself why you are so fixated. The only possible answer to why Gays get your special treatment is because it's an issue that goes against the Christian faith. You are truly bigots who want to separate any mention of our Christian heritage in public, because you want no competition when it comes to what is taught to our children. You want Government to play God and indoctrinate a nation to your political correctness. Just be honest once in your life.
You are sounding the fool! Tell us what rights are being denied? Are you going to tell me that because some person wants to throw a reception or event or meeting, he has the RIGHT to force others to cater his event? GET REAL!
In this particular instance, it has less to do with rights and more to do with the law.
If i want to throw a party to celebrate some event, do you actually think I have a right to force some business to cater it? You act like I have a right to throw a party and force others to help me do it.
Of course not. I am simply saying that businesses do not have the right to refuse service based on who you are (in terms of things such as sex, race, religion, etc).
Why not just admit the simple facts of why Liberals are so outraged over these types of things. YOU ARE FIXATED ON PUSHING THE GAY AGENDAS!
Not really. It ranks pretty far down on causes I feel passionately about.
Then you must ask yourself why you are so fixated.
Again, I'm not.
The only possible answer to why Gays get your special treatment is because it's an issue that goes against the Christian faith.
That is just about the only impossible answer. The RIGHT answer would be that I feel passionately about civil rights cases. If groups were trying to legitimately discriminate against Christians, I would feel passionately about that as well, though you are going to try to tell me what I think and deny this
You are truly bigots who want to separate any mention of our Christian heritage in public, because you want no competition when it comes to what is taught to our children.
Why must you lie? What does this accomplish?
You want Government to play God and indoctrinate a nation to your political correctness. Just be honest once in your life.
Nope. Absolutely no aspect of that is true. But of course you have decided it HAS to be true, so if I tell you what I actually believe, that is me being "dishonest". And you call liberals arrogant...
Are you going to tell me that because some person wants to throw a reception or event or meeting, he has the RIGHT to force others to cater his event? GET REAL!
Since LGBT are not a protected group under the federal Civil Rights Act, states are free to come up with any legislation they wish. That means it is currently legal for anyone to refuse service to an LGBT individual for being LGBT.
Once LGBT are included in the Civil Rights Act, then it will be illegal to do so. When that time comes, it is not the LGBT individual forcing the business to cater an event, but the federal government forcing the business to not discriminate against a specific group. Just like how you can't refuse service to a black person because he is black anymore (You used to be able to, legally, before CRA was passed). Laws are laws. Opinions only become law through Congress (state/federal).
YOU ARE FIXATED ON PUSHING THE GAY AGENDAS!
Don't have to push the gay agenda. The momentum is there because the average US citizen and the country as a whole has grown since racial segregation. Many conservative states have already passed legislation implicitly classifying LG/LGBT as a discriminated group. It is like Women's Suffrage. The first few decades, it took a crapload of pushing, but once the message got out there, the momentum was too strong. LGBT equality has been an issue for over three decades. It is too late to stop it.
The only possible answer to why Gays get your special treatment is because it's an issue that goes against the Christian faith.
Actually, it wouldn't matter if it was a sin for any faith. Discrimination is still discrimination. Christians happen to be the majority in the US. If the majority were Muslims, who happen to stone gay people, it would still be discrimination.
You want Government to play God and indoctrinate a nation to your political correctness.
You are confusing discrimination with political correctness. You can still call a black person a nigger to his face. That is not against the law. In fact, if you do so, it will probably have the same effect as refusing service. Similarly, if you call a gay person a faggot sinner, that person probably won't want you to cater his wedding. Why worry so much about business that will never happen. No sane gay person will hire a caterer that is openly hateful of gay people. That means no one will be forced to do business with people they don't like.
The entire nation as a group has not grown, they have been indoctrinated by a Liberal biased bully pulpit and activist gays with the power of Liberal appointed Judges. This is what extremists can do to a nation. To compare LGBT to African Americans is totally ludicrous but that never stops Liberals who legalized Abortion by a privacy clause in the Constitution. SICK PEOPLE twisting our constitution to take our away our freedoms to follow our faith or disagree!
We are not talking about laws that protect a Black family from eating in a restaurant, we are talking about laws that force that Black family business to cater a KKK meeting. CAN YOUR EXTREMIST CONTROLLING MIND GRASP THAT?
If your fanatical controlling mind can't grasp that, how about forcing a pro life family business to cater a Pro abortion rally or fund raiser?
If you had a business would you want to cater a KKK meeting?
You are a fool not to see what is gong on here! Whats so sick is that you are blinded with your fixation on Homosexuality, you could care less the freedoms all Americans are losing. If Gays would not want to force Christian businesses to cater their events we would not be having these cases going on right now.
Gays activists and Liberals will not be happy until ever single person on the planet sanctions their lifestyles as normal and natural. It will never be. Gays should have the same rights as all Americans but that does not mean you can force all people to support their marriages or go against their faith, just as you can't expect an Black family would want to cater a KKK event no matter if a politically correct Government started brainwashing people to believe that the KKK is a normal group also deserving of their.
Time to ban Generic once again. It is sad you have such a stalker personality.
EVERY private family owned business has the RIGHT to cater or not cater anything he wants.
That is not true at the moment. The law is the law. You may feel this way, but until you get Congress to enact a new law, your opinion will remain an opinion.
Discrimination is not a right. Refusal of service is a right. You cannot refuse service based on discriminatory reasons. As long as a judge agrees with your reason for refusal, it is fine.
It should be noted the "this tall to ride" rules are for safety reasons. The "no shirts/no shoes" rules are for both health and public decency reasons in many cases. It's not quite the same thing as discrimination for a belief system or sexual orientation, or color.
Christian bakers should have the right not to make a cake for a Jewish wedding. If you have no problem with that argument then there is nothing that will help you.
Christians are the biggest supporters of the Jewish state and their freedoms. Being Jewish is not a sin in the Christian faith. If it were, I would support the right of a Christian business to not cater that event.
We are talking about religious freedoms and our rights to practice our faith as the scriptures tell us to, unless of course it psychically harms others.
Dude, you can no longer talk about Christianity. You have fully discredited yourself. Not believing Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior is the number 1 sin in Christianity. It wipes out all other sins.
Non belief is not described as a particular sin as far as I am concerned. The Bible tells us to witness to the non believer so obviously it is not the same thing as going to a swinger's convention and supporting that lifestyle.
Non belief is not described as a particular sin as far as I am concerned.
Well, that is weird for Atheists.
The Bible tells us to witness to the non believer so obviously it is not the same thing as going to a swinger's convention and supporting that lifestyle.
No, that actually means that you are supposed to go to the swinger convention and convince them swinging is wrong.
If you do not believe that non-belief is a sin, then could you please explain to me what you think John 3:18 is saying?
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
You're not comparing like with like. As I understand it, the KKK is an illegal organisation, whereas the colour of someone's skin or ethnic background does not constitute a crime. Maybe I'm wrong about the legal status of the KKK.
The KKK is actually a legal organization. They perform illegal acts, but the overall organization is allowed to exist. The individual criminals are prosecuted.
Okay, thanks for the information. I'm surprised that any such an outfit with a history of violent criminality has not been declared a proscribed organization. But at least I've learnt something tonight. That then changes the thrust of my counter argument and vindicates the the point of the debate's creator. We're having similar litigation here in Northern Ireland where the ''Equality Commission'' have just finished suing a Christian owned bakery for refusing to decorate a wedding cake with a message celebrating the union of the two gays. If the court finds in favour of the ''Equality Commission''/ the gays then we can expect a torrent of requests for Muslim printing firms to complete orders for cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad. Watch this space.
I'm surprised that any such outfit with a history of violent criminality has not been declared a proscribed organization.
We don't do that here.
We're having similar litigation here in Northern Ireland where the ''Equality Commission'' have just finished suing a Christian owned bakery for refusing to decorate a wedding cake with a message celebrating the union of the two gays.
I don't think that will be protected here with these laws. I think they would be forced to make that cake here as well.
If the court finds in favour of the ''Equality Commission''/ the gays then we can expect a torrent of requests for Muslim printing firms to complete orders for cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad. Watch this space.
That is a weird situation. It may be hard to do though, finding a Muslim printer that is.
False, he was arguing for the rights of blacks to discriminate against a terrorist organization. You on the other hand are on the side of a black family having to sell to the KKK because you don't believe discrimination is a right.
Read the debate title. READ. READ. READ. READ. Do you want black people to cater for terrorists? He is not defending the KKK. Trust me on this one. You can take my word for it. In this particular debate he is not defending the KKK.
He said that all businesses have the right to refuse service.
So what? That includes black people refusing service to the KKK.
I am not trolling you. I am stating simple facts. You are using the dispute and downvote buttons to troll people.
This whole post is about defending the KKK and the alleged right of conservative business owners to discriminate.
How is it doing that in any way? I simply fail to see how he was attempting to defend the KKK at all. He was trying to make a (in my opinion inaccurate) analogy to what the American Left is doing with anti-discrimination laws in places like Indiana, and how they pertain to the "right" for business owners to discriminate. The analogy does not "defend" the Klan.
I have. Can you explain to me how statements like "KKK racism is something any decent parent(Black or White) would want to keep away from their kids who help with the family business." indicate he is defending the KKK? He is saying that any "decent parent" should want to keep their kids away from this organization, so if anything he is criticizing/attacking the KKK in one of the first sentences of the debate.
When you say things like "Good fucking God", you are not being civil. That is pretty much the opposite of civil.
Now he is definitely defending the "right" of business owners to discriminate, that is not in question, but you claimed he was defending the KKK while doing so, and have not demonstrated this.
I disagree. It isa not uncivil to use free speech. I have the right to say whatever I want. I will not take orders from you. My respect is conditional on you respecting me. If you want my respect, you will earn it.
Civility: formal politeness and courtesy in behavior or speech.
Using profanity, especially in the way you used it, was not civil. Free speech is not inherently civil either. Nobody has denied that you have the right to say what you want (though that right is certainly not unlimited on a privately owned forum such as this), but that does not make it civil. I also did not give you an "order", hence the usage of "please". Can you also indicate how I have disrespected you in any way? Because up until now, I can not see anything disrespectful that has been said, short of the comment of yours in question.
I have the right to say and do whatever I want. The rule against profanity is an outdated societal concept that has no place in society. I respect people who respect me first. If you want my respect, you will earn it.
You have it backwards. You disrespected someone by stating their beliefs incorrectly. Other people came and told you that you made an incorrect assessment. It had nothing to with your beliefs.
Actually on this debate you were the one taking others beliefs out of context when you accused the OP of defending the KKK. I indicated to you that was not the case, then you acted disrespectfully.
Translation. "I am impolite and rude, and I don't care what anyone thinks. They also need to care about what I have to say, even though I don't care about them."
Interesting. A third person has come along and told you you were wrong. No one but you can see where he is defending the KKK. Can you please point us to the one part of the description where he does it?
These Left wing people who deny the truth of this argument only prove over and over what control fanatics the Left has become. Only those who fit in the Left wing clique are deserving of rights. People of faith or others who do not fit into their little clique or sorority are demonized. They get no inclusion, they get no acceptance for their diversity. Their opinions re not allowed.
EITHER YOU CONFORM to the new age Liberal collective, or you are taken to court. Liberals in all their arrogance are the new politically correct thought police.
Only those who fit in the Left wing clique are deserving of rights.
How so? These laws apply to everyone. If someone wanted to refuse service to Conservatives, they would be legally prevented from doing so.
People of faith or others who do not fit into their little clique or sorority are demonized.
The only people who are being demonized are those who are trying to refuse service. Christians who are not trying to refuse service, which would be the overwhelming majority, are not being demonized.
They get no inclusion, they get no acceptance for their diversity. Their opinions re not allowed.
Nobody has excluded them, or denied them their opinions. They have simply said that their opinions are not sufficient grounds to refuse service to individuals of the public when you run a publicly accommodating business.
EITHER YOU CONFORM to the new age Liberal collective, or you are taken to court.
No, you either conform to the law, or are taken to court. Nothing new there, really.
Liberals in all their arrogance are the new politically correct thought police.
Political correctness really does have two forms in this country: Liberal and Conservative. Liberal thought police makes everything seem racist, or sexist, and Conservative thought police makes everything seem anti-christian or anti-American.
You are sounding the fool! Tell us what rights are being denied? Are you going to tell me that because some person wants to throw a reception or event or meeting, he has the RIGHT to force others to cater his event? GET REAL!
If i want to throw a party to celebrate some event, do you actually think I have a right to force some business to cater it? You act like I have a right to throw a party and force others to help me do it. We are not talking about the right of life. Oh wait a minute, Liberals don't believe in the right of life but they are so outraged if some people can't force others to cater their event. Talk about insanity!
Why not just admit the simple facts of why Liberals are so outraged over these types of things. YOU ARE FIXATED ON PUSHING THE GAY AGENDAS!
Then you must ask yourself why you are so fixated. The only possible answer to why Gays get your special treatment is because it's an issue that goes against the Christian faith. You are truly bigots who want to separate any mention of our Christian heritage in public, because you want no competition when it comes to what is taught to our children. You want Government to play God and indoctrinate a nation to your political correctness. Just be honest once in your life.
You are sounding the fool! Tell us what rights are being denied? Are you going to tell me that because some person wants to throw a reception or event or meeting, he has the RIGHT to force others to cater his event? GET REAL!
When a Republican says "I don't want to do my job" it is religious freedom. When a Democrat says that they are a freeloader. Make up your mind.
You guys are pussies. If you can't handle a gay wedding you have problems. Firefighters fight fires. A baker can't handle a gay wedding. You are pathetic.
It amazes me the people who can't get a simple point. I am saying that when arrogant control fanatic Liberals and Gay activists want Government to force a Christian family owned business to cater things that go against their faith, you must force all private businesses to cater things they oppose. I am using the analogy that African American owned businesses would be forced to cater KKK meetings under these radical extremist controlling laws.
Is that the world you want to live in where a corrupt Government forces it's people to do things that go against their faith, or their humanity ,etc.
Imagine if a pro life family business was forced to cater a pro abortion get together. Can you grasp this point that is so obvious.
This is how brainwashed Americans have become by the Liberal media. They listen to these liars misquote and mislead the facts of the story to make you think it is so terrible.
After reading what I have said, do you see what is actually going on here? Our freedoms to disagree or stand up for our beliefs are at stake. This includes all Americans! Not just Christian freedoms.
It's amazing how many people seem to be missing the entire point.
Yes, the KKK hates Black people and is why it would be pathetic to force an African American family business to cater a KKK event.
These laws that would force Christian family businesses to cater things that go against their faith would also force Blacks to cater KKK events if the KKK wanted them to.
If that analogy is too hard to grasp, then how about a pro life family forced to cater a Pro abortion rally or dinner to raise money for Pro Abortion agendas.
What are you missing here? We are talking about our family's freedoms and right's to disagree and cater whoever they want. There will always be the vast majority of businesses who have no convictions against different groups and will gladly take the money. These groups will never have a hard time finding a caterer.
If your argument is that the KKK would not want a Black business to cater their event, the same could be said for a Gay wedding reception where they might not want a Christian family business to cater their reception if the family believed Homosexuality is a perversion, as the New Testament says.
