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Politicians claiming to be Socialists are just Anarcho-capitalists looking for a sucker
I'm the sucker
Side Score: 24
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But they sold me the dream
Side Score: 26
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Politicians claiming to be Socialists are just Anarcho-capitalists looking for a sucker Hello b: Boy, I'd sure like to see a list of those "socialist" politicians.. Would Bernie Sanders, perhaps, be on the list?? He's never claimed to be a socialist. He's a capitalist, through and through, and is thrilled to be one. He owns 2 houses and earns his money by selling books on the interweb. It's right wingers who claim he's a socialist, but socialist don't own their homes, amirite? excon Side: But they sold me the dream
He's never claimed to be a socialist. He goes out of his way to call himself a "democratic socialist" instead of a social democrat, the latter being the correct label for him. You aren't wrong that he isn't a socialist but you are wrong that he doesn't call himself one. He calls himself both a capitalist and a socialist depending on who he is cucking to but ultimately cucked down to liberal capitalists (he would have cucked to commies if they had the leverage). He's a capitalist, through and through, and is thrilled to be one. He owns 2 houses and earns his money by selling books on the interweb. Fredrick Engles was a business owner, so he must be a capitalist too right? Side: I'm the sucker
You don't understand the term The average American wasn't aware the term "democratic socialist" existed until Bernie Sanders essentially redefined it to mean social democrat to Americans. He is calling himself a full blown socialist incorrectly because he knows Americans don't understand the term. Side: I'm the sucker
The average American wasn't aware the term "democratic socialist" existed until Bernie Sanders essentially redefined it Hello N: It's fruitless to discuss what various terms mean.. What ISN'T fruitless is to discuss what happens ON THE GROUND.. And ON THE GROUND, Bernie Sanders is a capitalist... I know about such things, because I, in fact, am a democratic socialist.. I'm a staunch capitalist who profits from a business, yet am happy my taxes go to pay for "socialism", like your fire department, like your highways, like your health care, like your retirement, like, like, like..... I could go on and on about socialistic programs that work exceedingly well within a capitalist economy. You know more SOCIALIST shit. Now, you can call that communism, socialism, fascism, I don't give a shit.. Whatever label you wish to attach to me and/or Bernie Sanders changes nothing ON THE GROUND. excon Side: But they sold me the dream
Whatever label you wish to attach to me and/or Bernie Sanders changes nothing ON THE GROUND. dem-soc and soc-dem are differentiated by the extent to which they are socialist. "On the ground" there is a difference between a social capitalist and a socialist. Bernie Sanders is either a full blown socialist or is in fact the one who improperly labeled himself and Americans like you ran with it because before recently the majority of Americans only knew two ideological labels: American and commie. Side: I'm the sucker
dem-soc and soc-dem are differentiated by the extent to which they are socialist. "On the ground" there is a difference between a social capitalist and a socialist. Bernie Sanders is either a full blown socialist or is in fact the one who improperly labeled himself and Americans like you ran with it because before recently the majority of Americans only knew two ideological labels: American and commie. Hello again, N: Terms again, huh?? I ain't interested in that discussion. Tell me. Does ANYTHING you said change ANYTHING on the ground??? Nope.. Call Sanders anything you want, but ON THE GROUND, he's a capitalist.. I KNOW that because he OWN 3 houses, (was 2 - capitalism is good), and earns his money in the free marketplace... I don't need to know more than that. All that other stuff you spout, is mental masturbation.. excon Side: But they sold me the dream
I don't need to know more than that. All that other stuff you spout, is mental masturbation.. Bernie Sanders is probably a socialist at heart who is cucking to capitalists. That is why it's relevant, because he had ideals which he kept quiet and/ortoned down but kept the label of a full blown socialist because he knew people didn't know any better, and now stupid average Americans who don't know anything outside of American political dogma and lexicon now believe the term means something it doesn't to the rest of the world. Side: I'm the sucker
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None of that is Socialism. That is Capitalism funding public works and programs via taxes. Socialism would be the government owning Walmart and McDonalds and everything else you see including your business. Socialism doesn't need to tax anything seeing that the government owns everything and there is no private property of any kind. Side: I'm the sucker
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On the ground you support censoring a story about a politician's son, censoring doctors, censoring scientists, sex trafficking on the border, men winning women's sports and awards, killing babies, 5,000 gender identities and handing over our country to the Chinese Nazi state. Side: I'm the sucker
Seems to me, that if you PROFIT from a business but mouth communistic bull shit, you're a capitalist trying to fool the world Not necessarily, because someone who has profit is the only one who can fund a communist movement in a society where capital directly = influence over resources. Side: I'm the sucker
Not necessarily, because someone who has profit is the only one who can fund a communist movement Hello again, N: Dude.. Over the years I've asked you countless times HOW socialism is funded.. Come to find out that socialism is funded by capitalism. DUDE! Kinda like the Chinese.. They have this veil of communism, but fund it with capitalism.. If socialism works so well, why are communists abandoning it??? excon Side: But they sold me the dream
Come to find out that socialism is funded by capitalism. Resources are acquired in the way that capitalism dictates because we are living under capitalism. Thats like saying capitalism is funded by monarchy because the founding fathers found a way to be rich and white despite living under it. Side: I'm the sucker
Resources are acquired in the way that capitalism dictates because we are living under capitalism. Hello again, N: So, ON THE GROUND you earn your money like a capitalist.. And, ON THE GROUND, you acquire resources like a capitalist. But, you're NOT a capitalist.. DUDE! excon Side: But they sold me the dream
So, ON THE GROUND you earn your money like a capitalist.. And, ON THE GROUND, you acquire resources like a capitalist. But, you're NOT a capitalist.. Someone who believes that capitalism is better than socialism isn't not a capitalist if they work for bread while living in the USSR. Side: I'm the sucker
Seems to me, that if you PROFIT from a business but mouth communistic bull shit, you're a capitalist trying to fool the world. Seems to me that if you don't believe in God but mouth bullshit about being a Jew then you're an atheist trying to fool the world. You're one of the worst hypocrites I've ever met. Next you'll be telling us that all the German business owners were "trying to fool the world" for not wanting to starve while Hitler was in charge. Side: I'm the sucker
you miserable Nazi Oh shut up you fake Jew imbecile. I'm on the far left, not the far right. If you claim to be a baker but you don't bake then you're not a baker, and slandering the guy who points that out only proves that you're a worthlessly dishonest, no good piece of shit. Side: I'm the sucker
hate filled motherfucker You are slandering me with words like "motherfucker" and "Nazi" while at the same time bizarrely claiming I am the one who is filled with hate. Everything about you is ridiculous and everything you type is complete nonsense. If you hate Jews Do you struggle with reading plain English? You aren't Jewish you stupid little twit. Don't dare accuse me of hating Jews simply for pointing out that you aren't Jewish you horrible little man. Side: I'm the sucker
You're an NPC with NPD and empty speech exemplary of an endlessly pretentious dweeb pretending he's in mensa's league intellectually NPD is a disorder which by its very nature affects people on the far right of the political spectrum, you gigantic dumbass. Wanting wealth and power to be distributed equally rather than disproportionately to yourself is the literal opposite of what narcissists want. You are the one with NPD and that can be adequately exemplified by the stupid rap lyrics you insist on continually dumping here, coupled with the laughable ignorance you have regarding your own absence of musical talent. Side: I'm the sucker
NPD is a disorder which by its very nature affects people on the far right of the political spectrum Personality disorders don't have political affiliations. Wanting wealth and power to be distributed equally rather than disproportionately to yourself is the literal opposite of what narcissists want. It is 100% possible for someone with NPD to attach their ego and sense of superiority to things like morality and ideologies that claim to be egalitarian or whatever else on paper. Just use your imagination and think of someone attaching their identity and ego to socialism and feeling ideologically better than others because of it. You do it, and most socialists do it, just not to the point of a Narcissist in their case. How could you not feel superior to people who are literally all terrorists and Nazis just like all soc-dems and even liberals are communists? You are the one with NPD I don't even deny having it, I could lol. Side: But they sold me the dream
Personality disorders don't have political affiliations. That's a flagrant misrepresentation of what I wrote. I didn't say personality disorders have political affiliations. NPD is a disorder which can be characterised by certain beliefs, the overwhelming majority of which are not compatible with socialism. For example, a narcissist is not likely to want to share his wealth with others, because by very nature of the condition, he/she believes themselves entitled to and/or more deserving of it. It is 100% possible for someone with NPD to attach their ego and sense of superiority to things like morality and ideologies It is not possible for someone with a condition which makes them believe they are superior to everyone else, to also believe everyone is equal to them. That's literally self-contradictory nonsense. Side: I'm the sucker
For example, a narcissist is not likely to want to share his wealth with others, because by very nature of the condition, he/she believes themselves entitled to and/or more deserving of it. I will give you that they are more likely to be right wing and that the left wing ones are hypocrites in core ways but still can attach their ego to left wing ideologies. It is not possible for someone with a condition which makes them believe they are superior to everyone else, to also believe everyone is equal to them. You don't believe everyone is equal to you. You acknowledge that some people are "stupid" and others are "smart" and think that somehow humanity should be able to make everyone smart, make everyone stupid, or remain equal despite people having various levels of jurisdiction (and thus effectively ownership) over resources based on what jobs they can handle including big organizational, decision making jobs which lead to individuals having more leverage than the overall collective. If people themselves aren't equal and not just equal on paper (including in matters of sheer circumstance, not just ability) then in every way possible the very laws of nature itself will force hierarchy to form. If you, NPD-having Nom, actually gained the hierarchical non-egalitarian power to legislate your egalitarianism, you would soon see that you have an opportunity to unfairly and cruelly treat anyone you see as a "stupid nazi". Side: But they sold me the dream
You don't believe everyone is equal to you. Thanks for letting me know. You acknowledge that some people are "stupid" and others are "smart" Obviously that doesn't mean I think stupid people are worth less than smart people. You're misrepresenting my argument again. Side: I'm the sucker
Your replies get shorter and you start to ignore the important parts whenever you have a chance to learn something. I would like you to use your immense wisdom to explain how people can be equal anywhere but on paper realistically? Will the stupid have as much control over resources as the Nom in your vision of communism or will people be given more power based on competence or genetically engineered to be physiologically equal etc? Side: But they sold me the dream
I would like you to use your immense wisdom to explain how people can be equal anywhere but on paper realistically? It isn't complicated. You treat them equally. Will the stupid have as much control over resources as the Nom in your vision of communism I'm a socialist, not a communist. I believe that resources should be allocated fairly and as evenly as possible, and that personal greed should play no part in it as it does under capitalism. Side: I'm the sucker
It isn't complicated. You treat them equally. Welp, problem solved guys. From here on out things are going to be different. You see, despite disparities in circumstance and ability human kind will learn to live in perfect harmony because Nom declared on the second day of his Christly return to CD "let there be equal treatment for the people". Maybe some day it will even be written as a law that some dictator ignores and/or twists to his benefit. I'm a socialist, not a communist. What percent socialist are you, and do you agree that 100% is communism itself? I believe that resources should be allocated fairly and as evenly as possible, and that personal greed should play no part in it as it does under capitalism. I believe that this will not ever happen and that if you somehow gained huge amounts of political power your NPD would directly manifest in you making gulags to send all the stupid people to. Side: But they sold me the dream
you would soon see that you have an opportunity to unfairly and cruelly treat anyone you see as a "stupid nazi". That's a problem which has existed since the dawn of time. How do you conquer evil without becoming evil? But it's a misinterpretation because people are largely products of their environment. Put them in a system which rewards selfish, greedy and cruel behaviour and that's generally what they become. True, some people are just born to be psychopaths, but this is a small minority and they can be dealt with by the mental health system. Side: I'm the sucker
But it's a misinterpretation because people are largely products of their environment. Put them in a system which rewards selfish, greedy and cruel behaviour and that's generally what they become. Nature itself is literally a system that rewards selfish, greedy and cruel behaviour to an extent that drastically limits how much socialism is actually feasible. How socialist do you think things can get? True, some people are just born to be psychopaths, but this is a small minority and they can be dealt with by the mental health system. You're talking about the personality type that essentially has ran the planet since the dawn of civilization in over 9/10 regimes throughout history. Side: But they sold me the dream
Nature itself is literally a system that rewards selfish, greedy and cruel behaviour to an extent that drastically limits how much socialism is actually feasible. How socialist do you think things can get? No, I don't agree with that. Nature forced early humans into societies because there were bigger predators which could only be survived by pooling expertise and resources. Nature forced humans into becoming pack animals, and capitalism tries to do the opposite now that humans dominate the planet. With few predators left to fear, humans have turned on themselves and now we exploit each other. You're talking about the personality type that essentially has ran the planet since the dawn of civilization in over 9/10 regimes throughout history. Yes, but that's exactly why you have to abandon hierarchical systems like capitalism. Only wicked people seek power over others. Normal people have very little interest in dominating others. If you take away the system which rewards the psychopathic behaviours, then the psychopathic behaviours gradually become less dominant over time. Side: I'm the sucker
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Nature forced early humans into societies because there were bigger predators which could only be survived by pooling expertise and resources. What this means is that nature essentially forced early humans to form hierarchical gangs because of the competition with other predators and human gangs if you think about it. With few predators left to fear, humans have turned on themselves and now we exploit each other. Humans have never not exploited each other, we just keep finding new ways. I am going to exploit your nipples for example when I harvest and clone them to sell at the circus, pickled in a jar. nly wicked people seek power over others. Normal people have very little interest in dominating others. I wish to have power over others so that they can't stop me from conducting scientific experiments on their nipples or from profiting from nipple based products. If you take away the system which rewards the psychopathic behaviours, then the psychopathic behaviours gradually become less dominant over time. Based on my projections, they won't be taken away. They will be written in stone and amplified when either wealthy transhumanists or AI turn humans into a slave race or a new addition to the history section of the library. Side: But they sold me the dream
What this means is that nature essentially forced early humans to form hierarchical gangs because of the competition with other predators and human gangs if you think about it. Yes, I would imagine that there were hierarchies within early human societies. However, those hierarchies were basic, rooted in nature, and most importantly secondary to survival of the group. Capitalism has pushed us dangerously close to the edge of that, and it continues to push. Humans have never not exploited each other You're missing the point. Capitalism provides humans with a reward and protection system for exploiting each other which is not present in nature itself. It institutionalises specific benefits for taking advantage of each other which would not ordinarily be there. Based on my projections, they won't be taken away. Maybe you are right, but if so then the human race will not survive. That much should be obvious to anybody who looks at the problem logically. Under capitalism the human race is a snake eating its own tail. Side: But they sold me the dream
those hierarchies were basic, rooted in nature Nature is what facilitates the existence of anything that exists, so the only thing that technically differentiates the natural from the unnatural is how well it holds up in terms of managing to exist in nature. Capitalism has performed better than socialism in this regard, it is rooted in nature because it is the ugly, corrupt system that the human species naturally contrived from their ugly, corrupt nature that they obtained from living in an ugly, violent and chaotic universe of death and warfare. and most importantly secondary to survival of the group This brings us back to the futility of espousing egalitarianism without addressing the fact that people inherently, naturally have different abilities and circumstances. It is not only futile, its hypocritical and downright backwards when you constantly acknowledge that there are stupid people who shouldn't have a say in anything (as you say, they should literally be banned from having opinions lol). Hierarchy and group survival are deeply linked because different people are differently capable, the problem is that things like pure luck or nepotism can and always have affected who is on top in human societies. This is the dilemma: how will you ever stop circumstance and nepotism as well as sheer difference in "stats" (my alteration is 309 like I said) from writing these hierarchies in stone or simply destroying the human race when transhumanism and AI start to threaten the average poor humans who can't afford to augment themselves or keep up with the increasing complexity of the world? If you ran a simulation designed to project humanity's future in a giant quantum super computer you would be lucky if egalitarianism wins out 1/10 billion times. Capitalism provides humans with a reward and protection system for exploiting each other which is not present in nature itself. Lets look at the core reasons why being a capitalist/owning class is attractive to humans living under capitalism or even just humans in general. A: You can get more for doing less. B: You can incentivize other people to work on projects that you can't do singlehandedly People have been seeking ways of doing these two things from the beginning. Maybe you are right, but if so then the human race will not survive. Yes, the human race is on its way out the door. In the end the AI or ancestors of transhumanist rich people will inherit the earth. I think around 99% of relatively advanced alien civilizations are fascist technocracies and humanity's AI remnants and/or evolved form will end up no different. At least they won't be capitalist. Side: I'm the sucker
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That's a problem which has existed since the dawn of time. I am going to unscrew your nipples with an electric screwdriver and put them in a jar, then I'm going to screw two lightbulbs into your chest where your nipples used to be and use my level 309 alteration skill to link the light bulbs to your emotions and make them light up when you get excited. Side: But they sold me the dream
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