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10
8
Sounds fair but...but...
Debate Score:18
Arguments:32
Total Votes:18
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 Sounds fair (10)
 
 but...but... (8)

Debate Creator

J-Roc77(70) pic



So Oklahoma has the ten commandments displayed at their state capitol...

Currently all requests for displays at the state capitol are being put on hold until the law suit over the ten comandments is settled. But wait this debate isn't about whether the ten commandments should/should not be put up at the state captiol...In responce to the ten commandments being put up in such a manner a group of Satanists has put a bid in to have their deity put on display in statue form. 

If the courts allow for the ten commandments to stay should other religious groups have the same rights to put up their statues? Why or why not?


link to a simple write up. http://news.yahoo.com/satanists-unveil-design-okla-capitol-monument-212735130.html

A little better write up, other groups have also put in bids for their statues. http://abcnews.go.com/Weird/wireStory/satanists-unveil-design-okla-capitol-monument-21440030
 

Sounds fair

Side Score: 10
VS.

but...but...

Side Score: 8
1 point

This argument reminds me of the atheist monument movement a while back. Equally ridiculous but equally guaranteed under the first amendment.

That's the kicker to religious tolerance, it's a double sided blade. It's illegal for anyone to not respect your beliefs, but you must also provide them the same.

I say so long as the statue depicts nothing mentally disturbing, or more adult than what can be considered pg then it's completely fair.

Supporting Evidence: Atheist Monument (www.huffingtonpost.com)
Side: Sounds fair
God_(507) Clarified
1 point

The statue they wanted to erect was the pentagram. _

Side: Sounds fair

If I worshipped a penis god, could a erect a statue of my religion? :D

It's freedom of speech isn't it?

Side: Sounds fair
1 point

Stanists? The worshippers of Stan? Well, I guess that depends on which Stan they worship...

Seriously though, Satan, whether he is real or not, represents evil. It's kind of like erecting a statue of Hitler. It's probably not a good idea.

Side: but...but...
J-Roc77(70) Disputed
1 point

Good catch on the typo. Also fixed 'diety' to 'deity'. Funny spell check catches it now but not in the 'create' portion.

I think your comparison is off. "It's kind of like erecting a statue of Hitler." Hitler is not a worshiped god. There is no religion for Hitler, but there is one for Satan.

Whether it is a symbol of evil to other religions is irrelevant. That view stems from Christianities view of Satan, the worshipers of Satan do not see their deity as evil.

Atheistic satanists view Satan as a symbol only. According to churchofsatan.com

"Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential. We do not believe in Satan as a being or person."

Theistic satanists also do not view him as evil but as patriarch figure.

Other doctrines such as Hinduism have also put in their papers for their deities to have statues erected. Some christian fundamentalists have stated these gods are evil as well, but same as above these claims are irrelevant. Do you oppose these statues as well, or just the Satan one?

If the Oklahoma courts allows one religion to be represented on the state grounds at the capitol why not others?

Side: Sounds fair
GuitarGuy(6096) Disputed
1 point

I think your comparison is off. "It's kind of like erecting a statue of Hitler." Hitler is not a worshiped god.

Satan isn't a god either. They took a character from the Bible and started worshipping him.

My reason for mentioning Hitler was to point out what he represents. People don't typically make statues of bad things... at least in this day and age.

Whether it is a symbol of evil to other religions is irrelevant. That view stems from Christianities view of Satan, the worshipers of Satan do not see their deity as evil.

Satan is only in the Bible (excluding the obvious works of fiction, even though their Satan is also from the Bible), at least under that name. They worship the same exact character, but look at what he did in the Bible in a different light than Christians. They think he represents free-will, enlightenment and so on... but if the Abrahamic authors who wrote the Bible say that Satan is evil, then it's pretty ridiculous to take the character and paint him in a positive light. That clearly wasn't the intention of the authors.

If that's the case, then I can say that after Hitler died, he became a loving deity... does he deserve a statue?

Atheistic satanists view Satan as a symbol only. According to churchofsatan.com

Well, he's also a symbol of evil. That's indisputable. There were massive protests in the Middle East when a European artist mocked Muhammad in one of his drawings. Putting up a statue of Satan would lead to protests as well.

"Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential.

They're most likely referring to Satan tempting Eve, which led to her and Adam's understanding of good and evil. The problem with that is that the character who tempted Eve wasn't Satan. It was a serpent. The Bible even says that his punishment was losing his limbs and becoming a snake. The serpent's punishment is the Bible's way of explaining the creation of the snake. So, maybe they should be worshipping a snake. A statue of a snake would definitely be less offensive.

We do not believe in Satan as a being or person.

Then let's be honest... they really shouldn't give a shit about a statue.

Do you oppose these statues as well, or just the Satan one?

The mass majority of Christians aren't offended by Hindu statues... especially if they live in an area with a predominant Hindu population.

I'm not religious, by the way.

If the Oklahoma courts allows one religion to be represented on the state grounds at the capitol why not others?

The State owns the land, they should have the right to choose what kind of statues go up.

Side: but...but...
Thejackster(518) Disputed
1 point

Body count according to the bible:

God: 2,476,633 (and counting if you include natural disasters throught history)

Satan: 10 (and only because he made a bet with God, and also since God created Satan he is indirectly responsible as well)

So in hindsight, satan doesnt seem like that bad of a guy if you compare him to God.

Btw, if a group of white supremacists wanted to buy the birthplace of Martin Luther King Jr. And turn it into a shrine to Adolf Hitler, they would have the right to. I wouldnt like it at all, but in a democracy sometimes you have to let the bad guys win, that the price for having free speech.

Side: Sounds fair
GuitarGuy(6096) Disputed
1 point

I never said that the God in the Bible isn't responsible for some messed up shit... all I'm saying is that Satan represents evil... and by the way, if you believe that Satan tempted Adam and Eve, then you believe that Satan is ultimately responsible for ALL deaths.

Btw, if a group of white supremacists wanted to buy the birthplace of Martin Luther King Jr. And turn it into a shrine to Adolf Hitler, they would have the right to. I wouldnt like it at all, but in a democracy sometimes you have to let the bad guys win, that the price for having free speech.

Yeah... but that's off topic. We're talking about government property.

Side: but...but...