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Debate Score:130
Arguments:97
Total Votes:133
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Which satirical device is the most significant?

Based on your last name you have been assigned two devices to choose from - see the chart below. You must choose one of your two devices and write an argument that attempts to prove that your devices is the most significant in A Modest Proposal or Gulliver's Travels. You must use text evidence in your argument. Once you have posted your response, you need to post two responses to your peers' arguments; you can disagree or agree. Happy debating. 

Last Name begins with A-I = Burlesque or Caricature

Last Name begins with J-Q = Lampoon or Irony

Last Name begins with R - Z = Invective or Parody

 

This is due by the end of class Tuesday, April 10!

Add New Argument
5 points

Lampoon is a harsh satire usually directed against an individual. For satirical idea of eating babies sold to rich people so the poor could survive without going to the thought of prostitution. The Irish continued to suffer, and it was something that greatest troubled the civic-minded Swift. Swift's was concerned about the bad state of affairs in Ireland that he had saw. However, those who are good with money may not always care for the the people who are in need of help, like for example in debt. It's not their "revolution." The people that saw the title probably didn't care to read it until readers could comprehend what Swift was "proposing" because he started the essay out soft, with it in control and "gentle concern."

Supporting Evidence: LAMPOON (www.enotes.com)
1 point

i agree with your argument because in the story their is Lampoon

3 points

I believe irony is the most significant device for A Modest Proposal. I believe it is important because it shows a great amount of humor while keeping its message clear. It allows for an inside joke with out compromising the content you are trying to read. An example would be when Swift tells us that seeing dying, sick, starving mothers with children a melancholy object. When in fact it is actually pretty tragic to see.

2 points

I support your argument because i agree the whole story of modest proposal is ironic. and the point you picked out it very ironic.

2 points

I agree that using Irony in a satirical writing is important because it gives a reader something more to think about!

2 points

I agree that irony is the most important device. The whole proposal is ironic. The proposal of eating children while still being completely serious is ironic. It is ironic because proposals should solve problems not cause new ones. This proposal would bring up the issue of morals and what is just.

1 point

I agree with you proposal its very ironic how people plan to solve problems by eating children and selling children. You can't save a your economy by eating your future leaders.

1 point

i agree because the irony does make you value moral values better and get a better understanding.

1 point

I agree, the purpose of a satire, in order for it to be a satire and effective. It has to contain irony to get the underlying message across to the reader.

1 point

I agree with this statement. Irony is one of the important devices for A Modest Proposal.

1 point

oh wow, you said that better than me. i agree with you because now that i read more into the proposal, the irony used in this does make it more comical. when swift says " infant flesh will be in season" hes making it a joke that baby's flesh is in season to eat but in reality that is something that shouldn't be laughed at because it is horribly disturbing and gross for someone to ingest human flesh.

1 point

Anyone who wrote about irony is basically correct since the whole book is based on irony.

1 point

I agree with darius because he is correct. Irony was very important in this time period and irony helped produced this story.

1 point

I agree with Johnny , the book is very funny and makes light of a very serious problem.

1 point

Very good argument! I would have liked to see some specific text evidence from the proposal to add to your argument.

3 points

makemost significant satirical device is lampoon.

Definition: Lampoon-Very harsh & personal attack on a very particular recognizable target focusing on the target's character appearance.

I believe that since the rest of this satire was harsh and outrageous (the darkly satirical idea of eating babies sold to rich people so the poor could survive without resorting to prostitution) it probably seemed appropriate for swift to point out what an outlandish point he was trying to make—by sarcastically terming it a "modest" proposal...when in fact, it was a huge problem. There are many harsh and attacking points throughout the modest proposal. This is why my device is better.

jdkelly156(6) Disputed
3 points

I disagree because you can sometimes take lampoon to far. Lampoon is usually used with racism to show satire. I believe this is a weak form of getting your message out. Lampoon can give you a small laugh but in real life it very hurtful.

1 point

I don't know how to disagree after jdkelly because everything was explained of why I also disagree.

1 point

I agree with johnny, lampoon isnt that significant in the book.

3 points

The most significant satirical device in "A Modest Proposal" is caricature satires. Caricature is using exaggeration for comic or satiric effect. It is not outright obvious in Swift's essay that he is using exaggeration. An example of this satirical technique is when he says that eating children will "be a great inducement to marriage" and "increase the care and tenderness of mothers toward their children." That is absurd to think that people would get married for the sole purpose of having children and then eating them. The title "A Modest Proposal" is even an extreme exaggeration. It is in no way modest, it is completely immodest to offer up such a proposal. Children are human beings too so how is it logical to eat them? The problem of famine in Ireland was a big issue but by exaggerating saying it is a good idea to eat kids is crazy.

kittenloveDR(4) Disputed
1 point

I disagree to the fullest. I do not believe in any way shape or form that Swift is using exaggeration or 'caricature' as a device to his satire. I believe that he thinks everything he's saying is not an exaggeration and believes that his plan is the best way to go about the current issues in Dublin. Seriously? Did you even READ the story?

1 point

I support you Mr. Daniel. You are correct. i had to look back swift is not using exaggeration or 'caricature' as a devic

12sadle(6) Disputed
1 point

Daniel, like I mentioned to Maddie earlier, it's unethical to question the writer's knowledge. Also, A Modest Proposal is a satire, so exaggeration is present. Ergo, Swift is not serious about his proposal. His essay is provoke thought to those who neglected Ireland's poor.

1 point

I agree with your argument because you are right it has exaggeration and that's basically it has! (:

1 point

I agree, you explained you argument very clear and I understand it.

cbaker(111) Disputed
1 point

Caricature is an exaggeration, but one that focues on an element of a person/entity. How does this apply to "A Modest Proposal"?

3 points

In the Satire A Modest Proposal, the device that I find the most significant would be the satirical device burlesque. Burlesque is evident throughout the main focus of A Modest Proposal is the distinguishing effects of England's treatment towards Ireland and their poor citizens.

One example of this would be on Page 631 Line # 240- 249 Where Jonathan Swift says " I desire those politicians who dislike my overture,and may perhaps be bold so bold to attempt an answer, that they will first ask the parents of these mortals...." This example shows the difference between the poor Irish citizens and The Politicians.

3 points

i think that it's burlesque because in the story A Modest Proposal in lines 68-80 it compares the kids to black sheep and how they were going to eat them because they couldn't support them so they were going to eat them and thats why i picked burlesque

1 point

I agree with your argument because the definition of burlesque is an artistic composition, especially literary or dramatic, that, for the sake of laughter. This part of the story is a perfect example of the device.

1 point

I too agree that burlesque is one of the devices that is important in A Modest Proposal. The example of sheep being compared to children is a good example of burlesque.

3 points

In A Modest Proposal, Burlesque is present as Swift is handling overpopulation as a satire, not a detrimental issue. Well, overpopulation is introduced as a problem, but it's not handled seriously, is what I mean. Burlesque is defined as: "A parody or comically exaggerated imitation of something, esp. in a literary or dramatic work." (source: Google.com) To begin with, A Modest Proposal is a parody because it is unlike Swift's other more serious proposals. Also, other writers had pamphlets distributed over the seriousness of the issue, which A Modest Proposal parodies. (Because who actually eats babies to resolve the issue of overpopulation? Don't answer, it's rhetorical.)

1 point

i agree sam because it shows alot of examples of burlesque when you read the story

1 point

Sam,

You've written very well-proven and eloquently phrased arguments here. Great job!

3 points

i believe irony is the most important device because swift uses it through out the proposal. for example, its ironic that women who are suppose to take care of the children and be able to work, are forced to beg for food on the streets.women and children are not suppose to be supporting the family financially, the farther is.in lines 117-122 its ironic how "scrupulous people" think women who are a "loss to the public" for being breeders is boarding cruelty because those people are just now realizing this is a bad thing and swift knew from the beginning that this was wrong. overall the irony in this satire is to show how these mothers and children especially, are being treated and how a persons life is worth as much as pocket change and should be valued more than the society is making it appear to be.

cbaker(111) Clarified
1 point

Great responses! I just wish you used proper capitalization rules.

2 points

I think parody is the most important satirical device for many reasons. A Parody is a work that imitates another work in order to ridicule, or ironically comment on. This is very important in a satire because it allows the mood of an overall satire to brighten up and most people will find good humor in the paradox part of the Satire. Parody's in a Satire are just important as water and food are to living creatures. One can always find comic relief and extreme exaggeration that one might find somewhat humorous and gives them something deeper to think about concerning the overall subject. A great use of Parody in A Modest Proposal is not found in the text, it is however found in the title. If the Proposal was so "modest" why has it come to the extreme that stretches as far as eating babies. I believe that Parody is the best and most important device to use in a satirical setting.

2 points

I agree entirely. "A Modest Proposal," in many ways is a form of a parody. Parody is not only in songs.. You have to be extremely close-minded to think that parody can only be shown through songs.

1 point

I totally agree with your statements! I think Parody is a very good use of Satire because it gives people the opportunity to look at things a different way and have a little good humor at the same time!

1 point

I agree with you. Parody is a easy and fun way to show satire. It can take something that is popular and have it help it get your message out. A good example of good parodies would be Weird Al. Weired Al takes famous songs that kinda show off the artist, and he reticules by showing them that there just like everyone else. But sometimes he just makes them to make people laugh.

Maddie19(6) Disputed
1 point

I totally and completely disagree with your argument. "A Modest Proposal" is in no way a parody. What is it a parody to? A parody is like Wierd Al Stankowitz's "White and Nerdy" to the song "Ridin' Dirty". I'm pretty sure there are no other essays that relate to this subject at all. Did YOU even read the essay???

12sadle(6) Disputed
3 points

Maddie, it's unethical for you to question Daniel in such an agressive manner. A Modest Proposal is a parody from his other serious proposals. Also, one needs to consider other pamphlets being distributed at the time over the issue.

1 point

I agree with Maddie, there is no parody in "A Modest Proposal".

1 point

Daniel, I love you. I agree completely. However, your argument is lacking evidence to what makes A Modest Proposal a parody. You don't explain what work it is imitating. Otherwise, not so bad of an argument.

1 point

I agree because in this story, the device did its job very well. When people read this story they will laugh a little because of how the story was told in a parody. if Swift hadn't used a parody in this story, it would not have had the same effect on people that has now.

2 points

I believe that the most significant device in A Modest Proposal is parody. The definition is something so bad as to be equivalent to intentional mockery. In the story, they are making a mockery of cannibalism of babies in certain countries. Another definition of parody is to imitates the characteristic style of an author or a work for comic effect or ridicule. In lines 82-89, Swift makes a comical joke saying that infant flesh will be in season all year and that the market will be more glutted after Lent.

2 points

I believe that the invective that Swift uses is the most significant device. If you take your argument and completely flip it around and show the worst thing that could possibly happen it proves the point easier. Invective is the most important part of satire. In "A Modest Proposal" Swift says things such as "Infants flesh will be in season throughout the year," and "the fore and hind quarter will make a reasonable dish, and seasoned with pepper or salt will be very good boiled on the fourth day, especially in winter." He says these things to shock people into understanding how important the epidemic was at the time.

cbaker(111) Disputed
1 point

Invective is meant to point out a specific and identifiable target of the satire. Who or what is this target?

2 points

I believe my device is more significant because it brings joys into a sad story or any story. A example of parody in "A Modest Proposal would be where he suggested the consumption of Irish babies as a form of population control. This work is one of satire paralleling the form of Swift's oration.

Chriscadd(6) Disputed
2 points

There shouldn't be any joy in this story, its supposed to show that the economy is bad among other things, therefore get to the point. Why need joy in this??

12sadle(6) Clarified
0 points

You do not provide enough evidence over how it is a parody. This is not a compelling arguement.

2 points

Parody: A work that closely imitates the style or content of another with the specific aim of comic effect and/or ridicule. It exploits peculiarities of an author's [removed]propensity to use too many parentheses, certainfavorite words, etc.). Well-written parody offers enlightenment about the original, but poorly written parody offers only ineffectual imitation. Usually an audience must grasp literary allusion and understand the work being parodied in order to fully appreciate the nuances of the newer work. Occasionally, however, parodies take on a life of their own and don't require knowledge of the original.

Parody is the most significant device because it is a mock up of his serious proposals from previous pamphlets. His parodic tone would make his reader of his previous works laugh at this proposal which is not at all a modest one. He makes the reader constantly doubt whether or not he is serious about the consumption of human children. I believe this is the most significant because it is imperative that the reader knows he is not serious based upon his previous proposals which were, in fact, serious.

2 points

Agreed. Parody makes up Swift's entire essay, and as you said, allows readers to know he's not serious.

2 points

Def.Caricature-mocking,exaggerated portrait

He offers the information, derived from an American he knows, that a one-year-old child is "a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome Food; whether Stewed, Roasted, Baked, or Boiled." Based on this fact, he proposes that the 120,000 Irish children born in a year should be disposed of as follows: 20,000 should be kept for breeding and continuance of the population, but only a fourth of these are to be males, in accordance with the practice common among breeders of livestock ("one Male will be sufficient to serve four Females"); the other 100,000 are to be fattened and then sold as a culinary delicacy.

-spark notes

2 points

I believe irony is more important than lampoon in the book "Gulliver's Travels". He escapes the little Lilliputians which he thought was so bad to him , while held him captive but were very nice and took care of him, then he went to the island of the giants and was treated badly and disgusted by the customs and insects. "However, he made other signs to let me understand that I should have meat and drink enough, and very good treatment" {Line 114 Pg 640}

1 point

I agree. As Gulliver changed sizes, the way people treated him changed.

cbaker(111) Clarified
1 point

So what overall interpretation can be gained from this representation?

2 points

The satirical device, Lampoon, is most significant in A Modest Proposal, because of the fact that Jonathan Swift proposed the idea of using small young children and babies as food to solve the problems within Dublin, Ireland. Just in case one isn't aware of how Lampoon works, according to dictionary.com, Lampoon works as a sharp, often virulent satire directed against an individual or institution; a work of literature, art, or the like, ridiculing severely the character or behavior of a person, society, etc. That being said, the whole idea of cannibalism towards children as a blatant proposal to reduce the number of "Papists", reduce the workload for a mother, a way to make easy money by basically selling children as goods, a guaranteed meal on the table, and not to mention an exciting contest to see who can bring the fattest child to the market (all in which can very well be found on page 628 lines 149-184), was used simply to open the eyes of society that something needs to be done to fix the present problems occurring in the city. Swift ridicules the fact that there is such a big problem going on, yet, society hasn't done anything to solve it. So, the pompous "modest" proposal of producing a market involving babies, basically makes the whole situation a ridicule. Consuming and selling babies to the rich for money is completely immodest and emphasizes the satirical device Lampoon, which makes my device the most significant to "A Modest Proposal".

1 point

I agree, the remark of the immodest act of cannibalism is a clear example of lampoon.

1 point

I believe my device is more significant because it brings joys into a sad story or any story. A example of parody in "A Modest Proposal would be where he suggested the consumption of Irish babies as a form of population control. This work is one of satire paralleling the form of Swift's oration.

1 point

I agree with your argument because in a parody, one of the main points is to be comical and the part of the story that you selected is a great example of a parody.

1 point

I think my device is more sanificant because it is showing mockery of his own text

1 point

Invective is, in most cases, a violent denunciation towards something. Given what Swift has mentioned in the text, invective is written all over. There is much written that can show it. In example of the text written, " I cannot but conclude the bulk of your natives to be the most pernicious race of little odious vermin that nature ever suffered to crawl upon the surface of the earth." This completely shows no regards for any of the people Swift writes about.

1 point

I agree with you in most cases, but you could have used a different piece of evidence. Jonathan Swift showed regard for people, but in a different manner as I have stated in my argument. He was only trying to benefit the people, even if his techniques were over-the-top.

1 point

Burlesque: A ludicrous or mocking imitation; a travesty. A burlesque on this book "Modest Proposal", concerning the poor or the title can't have a good support for the thesis that it meant poor or bad matters in the story since it is not fully covered in the text. Burlesque is the most significant because it points out a good point that you can't just judge the book by its cover.

1 point

I believe that the device "invective" is the most significant throughout Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal". Yes, I agree that Swift isn't using the lightest of language, but he IS grabbing the people's attention. For example, on page 622, paragraph one, Swift says "These mothers, instead of being able to work for their honest livelihood, are forced to employ all their time in strolling to beg sustenance for their helpless infants, who, as they group up, either turn thieves for want of work, or leave their dear native country to fight for the Pretender in Spain, or sell themselves to the Barbadoes (to escape poverty)." Jonathan Swift is only giving invective arguments throughout his satire to prove his point, and that's what I believe is the most effective and significant device in this piece of work.

2 points

You have some really good points as to why you made your decision. I agree with you (:

1 point

Justin,

You have done a great job with these responses. Bravo!

1 point

The most satirical device that is the most significant in "Gulliver's Travels" is invective because Swift shows abusive language as well as illustration towards the English government. Gulliver's size symbolizes the English government in power and therefore shows the government as somewhat abusive in contrast to Gulliver's size. As Gulliver said, "I had a reason to believe I might be a match for the greatest armies they could bring against me...(Pg. 638)"

1 point

I think that the most significant device is caricature. Because throughout the entire essay Jonathan Swift is very creative with his ideas of how to fix his countries problem. He tried to make his reasons logical and not exaggerated by giving them numbers, he said "There only remain a hundred and twenty thousand children of poor parents born annually." But the whole essay is exaggerated and over the top.

cbaker(111) Disputed
1 point

Caricature is an exaggeration, but one that focues on an element of a person/entity. How does this apply to "A Modest Proposal"?

1 point

"In literature, a caricature is a description of a person using exaggeration of some characteristics and oversimplification of others," If a modest proposal doesn't do this, I have no other idea what it does. "Infant's flesh will be in season throughout the year." going to the extreme of eating a baby, not even on a special occasion is bit much even if it was on a a special occasion. this is clearly an example of a caricature satire, without it "A Modest Proposal" would be nothing without it.

1 point

I agree. The point of a caricature is to exaggerate one point of a target and "to achieve a grotesque effect", and that is exactly what Jonathan Swift does throughout this satire.

1 point

I completely agree with you! The example you used is perfect to help others see how A Modest Proposal is a caricature satire.

1 point

I agree. Swift does use caricature in "A Modest Proposal"

12mville(3) Disputed
1 point

i disagree because there are some satirical devices. the end

12cking(3) Disputed
1 point

I disagree you can still make a proposal because irony contributes alot to the proposal.

1 point

I believe Irony is more significant because it shows that they are human beings but they eat other human beings just too keep alive. As Swift said, "Infant's flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentiful in March and a little before and after. For we are told by a grave author, an eminet French physician, that fish being a prolific diet, there are more children born in Roman Catholic countries about nine months ..... (page 625)

cbaker(111) Clarified
1 point

Explain how this shows an example of irony. How does this prove that irony is the most significant?

1 point

The most significant satirical device in "A Modest Proposal" is invective satire. I know very little about Ireland in the early 1700s. But I can deduce a number of things from just the beginning of Swift’s essay. For example, from the first few paragraphs where it talk about poor people in Ireland and so on.

1 point

The most significant satirical device in "A Modest Proposal" is invective satire. I know very little about Ireland in the early 1700s. But I can deduce a number of things from just the beginning of Swift’s essay. For example, from the first few paragraphs where it talk about poor people in Ireland and so on.

1 point

In the Modest Proposal the most imporant device is Irony. Irony means the real meaning and ambigious. "then as to female...scrupulous people". The irony in Modest Proposal is to show how these mothers and children are being treated and how a person’s life is worth as much as pocket change and should be valued more than the society is making it appear to be.

cbaker(111) Clarified
1 point

I can agree with your argument, but choose a more effective piece of evidence to get your point across.

1 point

I agree because irony shows a lot in how all are being treated and the fact that the people care for them self and not others.

1 point

Burlesque is the best satirical device because it insults a topic or group in an indirect way. Like in the Modest Proposal on page 629 lines 185-192, talks about how we see swine and how we should see a young well-grown fat child. It puts the topic in a different light. So that the audience can see what is right there infront of them.

1 point

Out of all of the satirical devices used in the Early English books, arguments and novels, Lampoon is by far the most critical. Lampoon utilizes the capacity of adamant arguments and harsh, piercing facts about the subject or individual. The propagation of swine and cattle would be great for the nation since young ones would be now the top-of-the-line choice and commonly used substance. Given the circumstances, the use of that type of carcass would be used to the fullest extant and would bolster the economy is every relevant way.

cbaker(111) Clarified
1 point

Lampoon is meant to point out a specific and identifiable target of the satire. Who or what is this target?

1 point

The definition of Burlesque is an artistic composition, especially literary or dramatically mocks dignity. Burlesque points out a good point that you can't just judge the book by its cover. And that the title gives out false thoughts..

1 point

According to definition by www.thefreedictionary.com, a burlesque in the context of satire is "an outrageous imitation of something that is supposed to be taken seriously". The short story "A Modest Proposal" is clearly a burlesque at its finest. Jonathan Swift's message through this satire was to underline his "genuine outrage at man's inhumanity to man and his commitment to championing liberty". The message he portrayed in his story was not only grotesquely distorted, but drew attention to the fact that the Irish Catholic's and Protestant's alike were being treated like cattle in Ireland. He even goes as far as to make the claim that children should be bred for human consumption and served at a table, "stewed, roasted,baked or boiled;". Clearly, after all the ridicule Swift had proposed to society, he was not literally inferring to eat the children, however he was highlighting the fact and mere shape that their society was in. This proves to be a burlesque, because any human being in their right state of mind, would believe the idea to physically breed human beings for food, and view their soul merely as nourishment for piggish and selfish bodies, would be completely absurd. However, his harsh perception on the problem was exactly what stunned the public so heavily, and made them see their actions. The fact that Jonathan Swift was so adamant and somber in his writing clearly expresses the definition burlesque by fulfilling it to every extent. "A Modest Proposal" not only is an outrageous work of art, but it catches the attention of the people by expanding to horrific extremes and including graphic details to prove the harshness of society in the 1700's.

1 point

Caricature is the most significant device in “A Modest Proposal.” Caricature is the description, or imitation of a person or thing in which certain characteristics are exaggerated to create a comic or grotesque effect. Swift clearly uses exaggeration to describe the multitude of suffering mothers of Ireland, and the “two hundred thousand couples whose wives are breeders” of “delicious, nourishing, and wholesome” children. The other act of caricature was made in the title, “A Modest Proposal,” as the essay is in no way modest. After this analysis, I understood that caricature was obviously the most significant device.

1 point

A caricature in the story “A Modest Proposal,” is the most important device. A Caricature is the description, or imitation of a person or thing in which certain characteristics are exaggerated to create a comic or grotesque effect. 100,000 babies are to be fattened and then sold as a culinary delicacy. Then Swift proceeds to offer suggestions as to the sort of dishes that might be prepared from their meat. “Infant’s flesh will be in season throughout the year, but more plentiful in March, and a little before and after.” This shows that gruesome mental picture of children butchered, hung up, and sold by merchants by the thousands for hungry families needed to be filled for a night.

1 point

I agree, this is a great example of exageration to creat a grotesque effect.

1 point

Oh Mr. Dochnal, I agree with your statement that a caricature is most important because Swift's exaggeration helps keep the reader involved.

1 point

I agree that caricature is very important to "A Modest Proposal" because without this device it would be very bland and boring to read. Your quote you use is perfect because this quote shows exactly how caricature works.

1 point

In the Modest Proposal, a great satire device to have is caricature. My device is so great because it gives an exaggeration of a particular feature in a target. In the Modest Proposal on page 625 lines 61-81 they talk about how they cooked the child like baked, roasted, or boiled and they would sell there child.

1 point

In Gulliver's Travels, I believe that burlesque is the most significant satirical device. In the story, Swift used this over and over again to point all of the flaws that there were with the Whigs compared to the Tories. For example, in the voyage to lilliput, he told how he had to be tied down to the floor. By doing this he was making fun of how the Whigs were really strict and didn't put much confidence in their people.

1 point

A Caricature is the most significant satirical device to use. In Gulliver's Travels, Swift uses the over exaggeration of the native people's size (who symbolize real life people) to reveal his true problems and issues underneath the text with what was going on in the government and who was in power.

1 point

I believe that Irony is the most important device because Swift uses it without ever straying away from what he is really talking about. One example would be that Swift talks about that seeing the malnourished mothers with their children has a big impact and has lasting depression on others, when in reality it is a really harsh and important problem during that time.