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Islam is the religion of peace
Whenever someone points out the pitfalls of Islam, one can count on being accused of being so unbeliveably out of touch that they have not bought in to the phrase "Islam is the religion of peace." Just what exactly is that supposed to mean? Is it true? What are the implications for immigration and foreign policy? I lookforward to debating someone.
108,000. Kind of pales in comparison to the 1 million people Saddam had killed until Bush had the guts to take him out. Also keep in mind, most of those Iraqis killed in OIF were killed by other muslims in a civil war western troops were trying to stop from happening.... Kind of backs up my side.
108,000? was that in the final halliburton/kbr report? saddam killed 1 million? who told you that....the same people saying 6 million jews were killed during ww2? most of the iraqi's were killed by iraqi's? lol sure....i guess the american troops were too busy guarding the oil fields.
the cross avi of yours backs up what a fucknut you really are...
But seriously, a group of Christians being wrathful does not make Islam "le religion of peace!!!!! xD". Once again you're just using this debate as an excuse to spew more of your ostentatious, hateful bile.
Islam is an Arabic word meaning PEACE.. Don't blame Islam for some ignorant actions that may have been done by A MUSLIM but that doesn't mean every other Muslim is the same!! Real Muslims who follow every command that Allah had given them are very peaceful , You can't be a muslim until you love for others what you love for you.. You have to be nice to everyone even enemies!!... If you're looking at it from that perspective, then lets take Burma as an example, Judaism; what's happening in Palestine is not humanity!! I believe it's just ignorant to judge a religion of 1.5 billion population by the actions of what doesn't exceed 5%!
Jainism is the true religion of peace whereas Islam is the least peaceful out of the surviving religions. There are violent Quran verses and Islam was founded by a violent man who commanded an army and did violent acts.
Interesting. I do not know a lot about Jainism. I am a Cristian, but I have always thought many eastern religions have found the same truths about humanity that are taught by Jesus through focus and philosophy.
Keep in mind that might have a lot to do with the fact that we live in the western world, that despises the middle east and that particular religion, and thus we are influenced that way. Another thing to keep in mind is a lot of islamic dominated countries are theocracies, so they are more ruled by their religions than we are. Islam can be interpreted as a very peaceful religion just as Christianity, or Catholicism is. Religion does effect our government to, and typically when it does it is usually hardly ever a good thing, that is why have the separation of church and state. To a country with an arguably more lax religion (maybe buddhism) they might see Christianity as the religion of extremism, or countries that are dominated by non-religious?
Islam can be interpreted as a very peaceful religion just as Christianity
Incorrect, Islam gives very specific rules for interpretation. While there are contradictory parts of the quran that talk about peace and violence, the later surah supercedes the older. Also you have to realize the quran is not in chronological order. So a peaceful verse...
"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error;" quran 2:256 is abrogated by the much later surah 9:5 "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
The most commonly quoted verse from the quran is 5:32... "If anyone slays a person, it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." However the quran does not actually say that... Here is the full verse. "On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person - unless it be in retaliation for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew all mankind: and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all humanity. "
Any apostate from islam, Christian apologist, or atheist could be easily considered to be "spreading mischief" by a muslim.
What is the very next verse in the quran?... "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter"
I don't think there are any truly peaceful monotheistic religions. I think that Jesus taught a peaceful message, and has the possibility of being the exception, but his teachings were misinterpreted. I have not studied Islam as in depth as I have Judaism and Christianity, but I think it is safe to say that many Muslims are guilty of the same misinterpretations as the other Abrahamic religious followers. They just happen to be even more militant than the others. This is in part due to their religion, and also their society. Education is not one of the highlights of the Middle East.
I don't see how al quida, al nursa, hezbollah, boko haram, an the muslim brotherhood are "misinterpreting" anything. Muhammed fought in wars, he killed off his critics. He used wars to gain wealth, power, and sex slaves. The entire doctrine of sharia law is designed to take over a region and subdue the population, slowly converting them to islam through humiliation and brutality. Also beware of the doctrine of abrogation. Later verses in the quran supercede the older ones. So while muhammed was in Mecca, an had little power, he talked about peace. After he wa banished from Mecca and went to Medina, where he started gaining power an troops, he got more violent.
In Christianity, there is NEVER a call to go to war for Christ. By Jesus or his apostles. When Jesus was arrested and was talking to Pilate he said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."
After Jesus's execution, no one raised an army. There is no promise of salvation if you get killed in battle. There is nothing that even says you should treat non-believers bad.
Of course that doesn't mean Cristian countries can't defend themselves, but I think You get the point.
Both the history and the text of the two religions could not be further apart.
Jesus may have intended Christianity to have been a peaceful religion unfortunately mankind fucked that up for him, come on dude if Christianity is truly the religion of peace how does that explain wars the genocide and persecution all in Christ's name all through history (it wasn't always self defense).
Remove the plank from thine own eye before examining the splinter in thy brothers
I don't disagree with a whole lot of what you said, but the intention of Jesus and the intention of Muhammed can not be dismissed. Jesus renounced the use of violence without question, Muhammed used violence without question.
If the debate was "Christians are perfectly peaceful" i would disagree for sure. The question is "Is Islam the religion of peace." However there is no level of hypocrisy that makes that statement true.
I don't know how this always degrades into "well Jesus was a good guy, but there were some violent Christians so Islam is a peaceful religion"
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
Peaceful? Yes or no?
Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Peaceful? Yes or no?
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Peaceful? Yes or no?
Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"
Peaceful? Yes or no?
Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'
.... I mean really?
How many more of these do you need. I have dozens.
Christianity may have started from a peaceful ideal but throughout history has proved itself to be no less violent than Islam, you cannot dismiss history Christianity is as violent a religion as Islam
The question is not "Is islam more or less peaceful than Christianity." The question is "Is Islam the religion of peace?" Are those quotes I gave you consistent with something you would call "peaceful?"
I don't see how al quida, al nursa, hezbollah, boko haram, an the muslim brotherhood are "misinterpreting" anything. Muhammed fought in wars, he killed off his critics.
Compare the Qur'an with Old Testament. Why are there not more Jewish and Christian extremists? I think what it comes down to is that Western society is more civilized and better educated. It's the same reason that Western Muslims are usually more peaceful than Middle Eastern Muslims.
He used wars to gain wealth, power, and sex slaves.
Deuteronomy 20:10-17 “When you go near a city to fight against it, then proclaim an offer of peace to it. And it shall be that if they accept your offer of peace, and open to you, then all the people who are found in it shall be placed under tribute to you, and serve you. Now if the city will not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. But the women, the little ones, the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall plunder for yourself; and you shall eat the enemies’ plunder which the Lord your God gives you. Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.
“But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as the Lord your God has commanded you,
The Bible promotes the same things.
In Christianity, there is NEVER a call to go to war for Christ.
Jesus certainly did not promote violence... But traditional Christians accept both Old and New Testament. The problem is that most Christians don't seem to truly understand Jesus' message.
Both the history and the text of the two religions could not be further apart.
New testament and the Qur'an are much different, I agree. However, Muslims consider Jesus to be an important prophet, where as Jews don't... Yet the Hebrew Bible is still an important part of Christian tradition. If you swapped the Qur'an with the Torah, then there wouldn't be much difference. Islam actually arose after Christianity, and is an Abrahamic religion. Judaism is the foundation of both Christianity and Islam. Without it, they would not exist, or they would at least be much different religions.
I compared Christian misinterpretations with Islamic misinterpretations, because they both misinterpret the Old Testament, which results in a misinterpretation of both the New Testament and the Qur'an, although, Islam could have originally been built off of the misinterpretations, since it is the youngest of the three Abrahamic religions.
Compare the Qur'an with Old Testament. Why are there not more Jewish and Christian extremists?
A Christian extremest lives a peaceful life on a farm in Pennsylvania and drives a horse and buggy. A muslim extremest drives car bombs into crowded markets. The only similarity is the beards.
Deuteronomy 20:10-17
My initial response would be that the invasion of Canaan was actually ordered by God... But that argument doesn't fly with everyone. The Jews were given justification in the Torah to invade one region and subdue one group of people at one point in time. There is no jihad for global domination, no blanket license to kill for all time. Similar tactics, different goals.
But traditional Christians accept both Old and New Testament. The problem is that most Christians don't seem to truly understand Jesus' message.
A. Just when was the last Christian Holy War fought?
B. Where are the Christians in the Old Testament?
Muslims consider Jesus to be an important prophet, where as Jews don't... Yet the Hebrew Bible is still an important part of Christian tradition. If you swapped the Qur'an with the Torah, then there wouldn't be much difference.
Important prophet, yes, Son of God, no. In addition, Muhammed taught that the gospel was corrupted. So everything muslims believe about Jesus is words put in his mouth by muhammdd.
There is a huge difference between the quran and the Torah. The quran was written for the sole purpose of empowering muhammed. The Torah does not go on an on about amazing its author is.
The gospel builds off of the old testament, it is a continuing, flowing narrative. Muhammed, is classic manipulative style, pretty much said "everyone else is wrong, the bible and Torah are not true, only my book that I write is true." The violence in the quran is not a derivation or a misinterpretation of the old testament. Violent suras in the quran are purely utilitarian passages that just happened to be sent down so muhammed gets his way.
My initial response would be that the invasion of Canaan was actually ordered by God... But that argument doesn't fly with everyone.
Nah, that would make you sound like a hypocrite. Saying God ordered them to do it is no different than what a Muslim would say about the violence in the Qur'an.
The Jews were given justification in the Torah to invade one region and subdue one group of people at one point in time.
So, raping women and killing children is okay? There is a reason those parts of the Bible are so much different than the rest.
A. Just when was the last Christian Holy War fought?
The Second Sudanese Civil War ended in 2005, The Lebanese Civil War ended in 1990, the Nigerian Civil War ended in 1970, and the Thirty Years War, which was a war between two Christian sects (Protestant and Catholic), ended in 1648, and although that was a long time ago, it is still much more recent than the Crusades.
I guess you can classify them as religious wars, rather than Holy wars, but still... A war is a war.
B. Where are the Christians in the Old Testament?
Jesus was a Jew trying to reform Judaism. Christianity arose due to the fact that most Jews didn't believe Jesus, and they weren't willing to change. Actually, Christianity technically is reformed Judaism since Christians still refer to Old Testament.
Important prophet, yes, Son of God, no. In addition, Muhammed taught that the gospel was corrupted.
Muslims don't even consider Muhammad to be the Son of God. He's considered a prophet, as well.
I think the main-stream interpretation of the gospel, and the Bible as a whole, is corrupted. All of the Abrahamic religions seem pretty corrupted.
There is a huge difference between the quran and the Torah. The quran was written for the sole purpose of empowering muhammed. The Torah does not go on an on about amazing its author is.
Muhammad was illiterate, so I highly doubt that he wrote the Qur'an. Instead, Muslims say that the Qur'an is the "word of God." Sounds familiar, right?
Apparently Muhammad was a prophet "spoken" to by God. Moses was spoken to by God, as well... Actually, surprisingly, Moses is the character mentioned most in the Qur'an (502 times).
Muhammed, is classic manipulative style, pretty much said "everyone else is wrong, the bible and Torah are not true, only my book that I write is true."
If that were the case, then they wouldn't consider Old Testament characters to be important to their own religion. Instead, it seems more like they believe that the Bible is not entirely true. Do Jews and Christians not discredit all religions other than their own, as well?
The violence in the quran is not a derivation or a misinterpretation of the old testament.
The violence in the Qur'an is in there for basically the same reason that it is included in Old Testament... Because of the time period. The Torah is much older, but violence has been a major part of history. People used to be sentenced to death for minor offenses... That's just how it was. The problem is that Islam flourishes in an area where education is low, so many Muslims think that they must continue with an ancient mentality. Did you notice how many of the Christian extremist groups I mentioned are from third world countries? Poor education is often tied to religious extremism.
Violent suras in the quran are purely utilitarian passages that just happened to be sent down so muhammed gets his way.
The laws in Deuteronomy and Leviticus certainly weren't decided on by God, either, you know?
Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity her."
So what about the battles that kept muslim armies out of france or the crusades to eject the muslim invaders from spain. Is there not a clear right and wrong there in your book?
Im not at all amused or entertained by any religious violence< Muslim, or otherwise. Im a Christian personally but deeply saddened by the church acting like its perfect. Was killing witches a Christian thing to do? In America? Or anywhere else? its okay to question things.
Pretty common practice in war to keep fighting until the other side stops fighting. Since Islam is not the religion of peace I doubt if they stopped fighting. Take for example this account "A band of Muslims barricaded themselves into the Oratory of David (Mihrab Dawud) and fought on for several days. They were granted their lives in return for surrendering. The Franks honoured their word, and the group left by night for Ascalon." (yes I know its off of wikipedia, but the source is cited)... The muslims continued to fight for days after the city was lost, when they stopped fighting they were let go. That is not very significant.
If all or any religion is the religion of peace, why can't they achieve peace with each other or withing themselves? I don't think any religion is "the religion of peace" specific interpretations surely could be peaceful and pacifistic, but those are interpretations. I will call a religion, a religion of peace when every single interpretation in their is a peaceful one. Otherwise I am in a way performing the "no true scottsman" fallacy.
Ah! Thank you for putting a name to that fallacy, I really need to get all those memorized to call them out when I see them...
However, there is a problem with your thinking... You are only looking at interpretations and actions of others, which are always going to vary within a religion. The question is more in the spirit of "are the teachings of Islam peaceful" not "are muslims peaceful." The various opinions of others is irrelevant, what does the quran say when you read it? Do the actions of muhammed show someone who is a peaceful person when you go to the source and read about it in the hadith?
