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Should you open carry?
Open Carry is a law that permits gun owners to publically wear them out in the open, in public, on their person. It's kind of a YouTube craze to have people OC in crowded places, until a cop arrives on the scene to ask them some questions. Now the question isn't do they have the right som places,because they do, it's should they use that right. What do you think should people OC or not?
I'm glad you agree that is what this debate is about. The case is that, when people are talked to by police for OC, more often than not it's because people are afraid to see some weird person walking around with a gun on them.
It's like scarring children with a Jason Mask. No one's really getting hurt, and you're within your right if you're not on their property but it's still 'evil'.
and screw you for downvoting me. I can tell you didn't really read anything in it. Your argument is crap.
in US any kind of retard can legally own automatic weapons and unlimited amount of ammo, letting them carry it around isn't really god idea.
I'd like to see you be that retard being around an entire society of armed folk. Chances are you'll get popped popped second.
If I want to rob a Bank and I see inside a guy witch machine gun on his back, he simply dies first...
A hand gun will kill you just as fast.
As it stands, a 65 year old lady chased out 5 armed robbers with one hand gun. Seems to me like one's life takes precedence over the crime. Trust me, you wont be able to kill everyone.
I still can see it... so you are still going to die first.I still can see it... so you are still going to die first.
Untrained redneck huh? Have you ever robbed a bank before in your life? Have you ever gone ahead and killed someone?
Do you have some kind of special training or understanding that I could not possibly have?
pfft. your pathetic. You honestly believe you have some sort of godly argument thinking that one person is going to be enough to get you anywhere near that bank vault? Sure you could end up killing me but, why would you unless I was the teller? Even then I'd see you walk in gun drawn and one shout could turn everyone on you.
I see you dieing more often before you reload then not. and if you died everyone would celebrate the fact the prevented the robbery as well as your death and mourn those you killed cuz your a douche bag.
plus your assumption already tells me how fast you die. LOL
You would die first because you are an obvious threat, unknown redneck with weapon. I was in ugly situations and in shootings where I wasn't even sure who is on our side...
You have no clue what are you talking about, you would be hiding under table hopping that I'm not going to shoot you.
That's reaaaally hypothetical mate. So much so, that it ignores all current evidence that is stacked heavily against you providing little more to me then. "Id shoot you first". ... well, how about I was the guy that walked in a minute behind you and shot you in the back of the head or even distracted you by walking in the door and the guy's you were suppressing did the same thing.
That being said, if you pulled a gun on me right now. I'd probably put my head to it and say "PULL THE FUCKING TRIGGER YOU FUCK!"
... a ex-BIS agent from Czech Republic? With very little real intelligence, especially on me? Thinking I don't live a life? Confusing my knowledge of a relative simulation (to the debate it was showcased in) that has an extensive history.. and thinking me as being someone who plays a lot of video games and has no life? Being called a redneck and cursing like a sailor? Maybe, I see why you're an exBIS. As hard to believe as that is. Anyway I'm guessing your instinctual habits showcased to me are exactly why the BIS director had to say this.
"I am well aware of the highly contradictory image which BIS has among the public. Therefore I wish to start with assuring you that the Security Information Service is not your enemy; it does not pry into your private life nor your political leanings. Our task is to acquire information about the most serious threats to the security of the Czech Republic, to democracy and freedom. We will not allow anybody ever to abuse the authority and the tools available to the Service in the name of whatever particular interests, whether individual or groups ones, or to political ends.“
Jiří Lang, Director, BIS
Hell, if you gotta say that, there's most likely some double dealing going on and the directors is waving his hand in a jedi mind trick. He says "I am not your enemy." Repeats "You are not my enemy
Lol, you would make a shitty BIS agent. You're so fake. Nox. Get a life.
That's what I'm saying. Although I disagree your argument style, this is one point we can agree on. When one has a crazy idea to kill people, and they're ready to follow through with it, seeing someone else with a gun won't discourage them, they'll simply kill that person off first.
well if you have to have guns in your society (I think its not a good idea) then I think its better to have open carry.
there was the case in the UK where the police were sure a man was carrying a sawn off shot gun in a bag. the man was shouted at to freeze. the man not knowing who was getting shouted at turned around to see what was happening and got shot dead! turns out it was a table leg in the bag.
if it was only legal to have weapons on display then this would not have happened. So if you have to have weapons in your society. then make sure their on display. its worse if anyone could have a weapon and you don't know about it. because what if one of those people is about to do something?
if their on display and your uncomfortable with weapons you can avoid them.
Guns are hard to find in my country , but I support this simply because do you want to risk your own life while hiding and calling/hoping there's police nearby ?
Life can be lost in a moment's notice especially in conflicts and all we can do is defend ourselves , what if the bad guys have firearms too ? Are you gonna fight with bare hands when there's no other way to run ?
By the way let me tell you something funny , our media is so stupid that they've once said the P90 is a sniper rifle (with a picture of the gun) , which totally disappoints me .
Proven fact: An armed society is a polite society. and guaranteed most people on this site believe gun violence his risen in the U.S when in fact it has dropped... significantly. However, cancer and diabetes is on the rise due to companies like Monsanto and from experience of some of the idiocy from the people on this site I'm most likely going to get the "So what, who cares?". Just like I did when I told people the cure for cancer and diabetes, even AIDS and Emphysema can be cured with food grade hydrogen peroxide.
Also, you can play a very detailed role playing game for free online with others that embodies that quote in the entirety of the game. By featuring the permadeath system and player vs. player combat. With an excellent learn by doing skill system that hides all numbers. for example you learn all your fighting techniques up to the level of "good" and you piss off a Baron who is a legendary swords master. (or even a merchant who sold him some cheep cotton when he asked for and paid for rare silk)He'll most likely cut off your head then wipe his ass with it. You die and start over. So you might want to be polite if you want to save your hide.
Bare in mind the game has it's own terms of "polite" in respects it takes place in a feudal era. Also, it is a text based MUD and is no bigger a download then the <10mb download for the client.
It's your right, sure, but just like it's your right to wear a swastika shirt around Jewish people, it doesn't mean you should. Freedom of Speech and Freedom to Own and carry a gun be damned, people should have more respect for one another and not do things to offend each other.
In case people present the "I'll use it to protect myself and everyone around me" argument try this on for size, you can do your hero shtick with your offensive gun hidden on you just as effectively as you could with it budging at your side, or as in the picture, draped across you back.
Here's another thing. If I were a criminal and I had it in mid to shoot up a building, then all of a sudden I see three open carriers walking in, I'd make up my mind that when I do the shooting I already decided to do, those three die first.
So in open carrying, you're legally showing off your right to own a gun as a big 'kiss my ass' to the police, but you're also labeling yourself an inconsiderate jerk to the citizens around you who are uneasy around guns, and you're labeling yourself a target to anyone who may have got it in their heads that they're going to do something stupid with their weapons.
They have the right, that was not the issue, the question is should you. Why should you use your right, when you can be a cool level headed person and suppress it for the good of everyone around you.
Carry the gun as the law permits you to, but to flail it about wildly like the person in the picture, and like the people on YouTube begging for a cop's attention is just rude. You don't think people should be rude even though they have the right to do you?
I agree with you here. But, concealed weapons are against the law. Unfortunately, the only option you have is to openly carry it. Legally, anyway. It's not particularly rude so long as your not pointing it in someones face for absolutely no reason. Which if everyone was armed at all times. Would most likely not happen except on odd occurrences. Even then ballistics and forensics could and most likely would link your gun to the crime especially if every gun sold had a bullet fired from it and taken as collateral off hand.
Concealed weapons are not against the law. Concealed carry is a very popular option for gun owners. A vast majority of states support concealed carry and offer permits. Open carry is an option, but one that I disagree with. I own firearms, my family carries concealed, but open carry "carries" to much of a fear from the public, making them, you, and the cops uncomfortable. It's better to conceal it and make everyone happy.
Most likely the same thing that would have happened had he pulled it on OCers. He shoots some people, then terrorizes some more. If the people were concealing, they'd have a better chance hoping he didn't see their guns.
Every state has permits, they just don't give them out. If they are qualified for concealed carry and applied for it, but the government doesn't want to issue it, should they break the law and carry concealed?
Someone with a death wish trying to make a mark on society, get revenge, or who is mentally handicapped would. Shooters often shoot them self afterward, showing they don't want to live, meaning your visible gun won't deter them in the least.
I think we have specific laws against shooting your gun in public. I meant disturbing the peace as more of an explanation than what the crime is called. I don't know the punishment.
How the fuck is it rude if they allow it? Why should we even worry about how a cop feels? Your argument is about how rude it is? I dont think people truly care that much broski.
My argument to Dana's pathos is how it's rude. The argument that it's rude is valid, not just of the cops but of the people who call the cops. People call the cops because they see some shady character walking around, with a gun on his waist. It's rude because they are afraid, and the OCer knows they are afraid, and his gun is serving no actual purpose, yet he does it anyway.
Ultimately he has the right to, and I'm not disputing that. I'm disputing if even though he has the right, if he should. We have the right to freedom of speech, that doesn't mean we should shut our damn mouths every once and a while, am I right?
I can agree. But you never know what may happen. One day you may just witness a robbery. If you got a .45 on you then cap the bitch. Other than that I see your point. I think walking around with a full assault rifle may be over doing it but sticking a small weapon like a .45 should be fine.
Even with the small pistol, your chances of saving someone with it are higher if no one but you know you have it. If said bank robbery happens, and you're in the bank, when they take hostages you'll probably die first with you gun on your hip.
And a bank robber would be very focused on making sure her gets the most money out of that bank without dying or being arrested. Seeing your gun would present him with an issue, that he'd correct by killing you first, as I stated.
If not then dont buy a damn gun. Leave it to the pros.
And a bank robber would be very focused on making sure her gets the most money out of that bank without dying or being arrested. Seeing your gun would present him with an issue, that he'd correct by killing you first, as I stated.
Like I said. He must make everyone freeze first. He wont automatically know I have a .45 on me. He has to scare us first. Thats when you cap his ass. Easy as that.
If you are OCing, when the guys pull out their guns and ask for money, you'll be dead already.
If not then dont buy a damn gun. Leave it to the pros.
If not then dont buy a damn gun. Leave it to the pros.
So you mean no one should own a gun? I thought it was their right. What you are saying is contradicting your position. People should own a gun and OC, only if they are professional?
If only the professionals should own guns maybe they should just be police officers since that's the only time a professional would need to use a gun, in a situation where they are permitted to use it, and after using it will have to fill out a full report on why it was use,d how many shots was fired, etc, etc.
Like I said. He must make everyone freeze first. He wont automatically know I have a .45 on me. He has to scare us first. Thats when you cap his ass. Easy as that.
Only if you are concealed. If you are open carrying he will see your gun, and before he does his "scare tactic" he'll eliminate you. Unless you're lucky he won't eliminate you, he'll just put his gun on you and make you give him your weapon. Either way, an Open carrier is at a disadvantage because they lose the element of surprise.
just like it's your right to wear a swastika shirt around Jewish people
No. One insinuates racism and hatred towards a group of people. It's insensitive.
OCing a gun has no racist or insensitive connotations. Samurais used to carry around swords. It meant "I'm a samurai, don't fuck with me or I'll kill you."
people should have more respect for one another and not do things to offend each other
Many see OCing as reassuring of peace and security. An attempt to be racist is not the same.
hero shtick with your offensive gun hidden on you just as effectively as you could with it budging at your side
Not really. One thing is that it's really hard to hide an assault rifle. Also, if you're hiding a weapon, others won't know that you're holding it, completely eliminating the point, which is to ward off enemies.
those three die first.
Oh no! Hopefully they don't stop you in time.
you're also labeling yourself an inconsiderate jerk to the citizens around you who are uneasy around guns
Not this shit again.
Yeah, and gays who hold hands are being inconsiderate towards people who find that disgusting.
you're labeling yourself a target to anyone who may have got it in their heads that they're going to do something stupid with their weapons.
This is the ONLY valid argument, and that is up to the gun carrier. Essentially, if everyone open carried, this would hardly be an issue.
However, the pros of open carry outweigh the cons in my eyes.
No. One insinuates racism and hatred towards a group of people. It's insensitive.
OCing a gun has no racist or insensitive connotations. Samurais used to carry around swords. It meant "I'm a samurai, don't fuck with me or I'll kill you."
It's insensitive because people fear guns after seeing the destruction people using them have caused recently.
Many see OCing as reassuring of peace and security. An attempt to be racist is not the same.
And many see it as a scary person with a gun on their hip that could lose it at any time. The racist thing, it's not about it being racist, it's about it being insensitive to the people around you who would be uncomfortable around your gun out.
Not really. One thing is that it's really hard to hide an assault rifle.
So...why do you need an assault rifle? Who are you assaulting?
Also, if you're hiding a weapon, others won't know that you're holding it
That's the point.
which is to ward off enemies.
(s)Yea, sure. Every person who had it in their minds to shoot up a building, after spending hours convincing themselves, will see your gun and change their mind.(/s)
Oh no! Hopefully they don't stop you in time.
They won't because I'll open carry just like them, the only difference is, they'll be at ease thinking he's just a friendly gun user like me, then next thing you know, their booth is lit up "No body move!".
Not this shit again.
Yeah, and gays who hold hands are being inconsiderate towards people who find that disgusting.
Now it's my turn to call you out on an incorrect analogy. Gays holding hands is different than gays french kissing. In fact anyone holding hands is different than anyone french kissing. No one wants to see that, and just having the right to do that in public doesn't mean you should.
It's varying degrees of what is offensive that decide whether a person should still go public with it. In a town wear 5 shootings have just occurred in the year, to walk around waving your gun around, is too offensive for people who fear they may be next.
This is the ONLY valid argument, and that is up to the gun carrier. Essentially, if everyone open carried, this would hardly be an issue.
So you want everyone to have to own a gun? I know that's not what you said specifically, but the way that statement is phrased insinuates just that.
However, the pros of open carry outweigh the cons in my eyes.
The pros? And what are those pros? All I see is a person walking around with a gun as being the same as person walking around with silly bands. They're showing off, but they're hardly useful.
It's insensitive because people fear guns after seeing the destruction people using them have caused recently.
Who are these people that fear guns? Are they a specific demographic?
Or are you referring to ideology? The cognitive construct of people who fear guns.
No... I don't really see the point of pandering to their irrational needs.
And many see it as a scary person with a gun on their hip that could lose it at any time
Stereotypes. I wear a pentagram, i'm not going to kidnap your baby and sacrifice it. If you truly think that... oh well.
being insensitive to the people around you who would be uncomfortable around your gun out
Back2 gay analogy
why do you need an assault rifle? Who are you assaulting?
Or a shotgun, hunting rifle, semi-automatic NON-ASSAULT that still can't be concealed. Regardless, what, we have to justify everything we own and carry around?
after spending hours convincing themselves, will see your gun and change their mind.
Thieves was my mindset, but sure why not.
they'll be at ease thinking he's just a friendly gun user like me
Ah yes, the 'at ease' mentality of gun owners. I suppose our feelings of security and peacefulness will actually counter-act with our actual physical well-being.
No one wants to see that
That's, like, your opinion, man. I personally love it when people are free to express themselves however they wish, especially in a mutual act such as french kissing. Good for them and shame on you.
to walk around waving your gun around, is too offensive for people who fear they may be next
And in those towns people like that will be criticized accordingly. But hey, in my city there are homicides all the time (one of the top in the nation, in fact.) At the same time, hardly anyone would be "offended" by someone carrying a gun. Maybe scared, because we never see that shit around here (not sure if it's against the law or not).
So you want everyone to have to own a gun
Naturally as the law against OCing is diminished in every state, people who wish to do so will. This will mean more people carrying their guns around without fear of people putting them into cages (police.)
Who are these people that fear guns? Are they a specific demographic?
I'm not sure, but I know that any sane person who does not own guns would probably fear the people who do. If no one feared them, why would people call the police.
No... I don't really see the point of pandering to their irrational needs.
Irrational? So being afraid of being shot is irrational?
Stereotypes. I wear a pentagram, i'm not going to kidnap your baby and sacrifice it. If you truly think that... oh well.
Very true, it's bad to stereotype, but when so many of them come to fruition what are you supposed to do.
Back2 gay analogy
That's a way one is, it can't be changed. If people are freaked out on a mass scale by a gun in a dress the guy probably shouldn't wear the dress, since he can control that decision. Your gun is a decision, you opted to wear it that day, there's no reason you have to.
Or a shotgun, hunting rifle, semi-automatic NON-ASSAULT that still can't be concealed. Regardless, what, we have to justify everything we own and carry around?
Still not an answer why you need to carry anything bigger than a pistol. If you're stopping criminals like you claim, will the size of the device made for killing make a difference?
Thieves was my mindset, but sure why not.
Thieves, have their weapons too. They'll hold you at gun point and steal from you, stealing your gun as well. Pickpockets will steal from you without you even knowing. So that's that argument tossed out the window.
I know that any sane person who does not own guns would probably fear the people who do
False-consensus. I happen to believe that actually makes you INSANE. ha, rebuttal that.
So being afraid of being shot is irrational
To the point that seeing a gun makes you uncomfortable? Yes, quite irrational, and that needs to be dealt with via psycho-therapy. After all, people who are so afraid of car accidents that they freak out whenever they see someone driving a car is seen as a phobia. We use systematic desensitization to get rid of those phobias. Really now, if more people openly carried a gun, those phobias would start to disappear.
Cognitive Behavioral Psychology.
Your gun is a decision, you opted to wear it that day, there's no reason you have to.
Personal preference is a good enough reason for me. Pretty much for everything else.
will the size of the device made for killing make a difference
I suppose if, God forbid, the time ever came to use it, I will be able to come back and answer that question, comrade.
They'll hold you at gun point and steal from you
Hopefully a bystander will also be armed and ready to protect me.
Pickpockets will steal from you without you even knowing
Not if it's a large assault rifle. HEY, I FOUND YOUR ANSWER TO YOUR EARLIER QUESTION! :D
I think it depends on the person. If you are a reasonable person that cares about others then chances are you aren't going to open carry when it is obvious you shouldn't open carry.
Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to open carry JUST so they can bother others and cause problems. They give BS reasons why they do it... it is always clear though they are just 5 year olds that never grew up. They have no business with a gun, let alone open carrying the thing. You take on certain responsibilities when you open carry and they simply aren't mature enough.
So, until those people grow up I have to go with "not really". No offense to all the others that do open carry responsibly.
